God or Guns?

[Therapon]

Being a man is not about having a bigger stick than the other guy.

First of all brother, I didn't call anyone wimpy and never would, even if he were one. <smile> I said, it's the wimpy attitudes so beloved by the church that I decry because it weakens our couragous spirit.

Everyone who truly loves the Lord hates violence of any kind, but sometimes it is thrust upon us whether we like it or not. If the Brits had not stood against Nazi Germany, the most popular ditty in England today would be &#8220;Deutschland, Deutschland uber alles&#8221; and they&#8217;d be &#8220;heil Hitlering&#8221; and goose-stepping all over the island. If the United States had not stood against the Japanese, the Pacific Ocean would have become a Japanese private lake and a lot more than just Nanking would have been raped. We stood against evil, not just with prayers, but with guns and bullets, which you sometimes have to do.

So that&#8217;s history, but what about today? In the Sudan, over two million Christians have been tortured and killed by Muslim murders with AK47s. That&#8217;s happening because the best weapons the natives had to defend themselves with were bows and arrows. In Darfur, if a Christian woman is feeding her baby at her breast, Muslim butchers cut off her breasts so her baby starves. There is no 7-11s close by where she could buy milk nor any money to buy it with if there were.

But on a more personal level, let&#8217;s say it was your wife to whom that was happening. Would you just stand by while those butchers did that and then kept you at gunpoint while they raped your nine year old daughter? Fanciful? NO, that&#8217;s what&#8217;s happening all over the sub-Sahara right now. I can only speak for myself, but I couldn&#8217;t stand it. I would indeed get armed and blow those inhuman monster&#8217;s heads off, praising God while I did so.

Why an I telling you all this? Because right now, our Muslim President and his appointed Islamists are infiltrating every branch of our government. The church is the only chance this country has to stop an eventual jihad right here and we are sound asleep. Even on this forum we debate whether our people should be armed or not. Ridiculous! We keep our heads buried in the sands of ignorance, like a flock of pregnant ostriches, &#8220;trusting in the Lord&#8221; to keep us from harm. I too, trust the Lord with every atom of my being, but I also try not to be a starry-eyed idiot (no personal affront intended).

I don't figure this post will get me any friends <grin>

 

[loveme1]

Stop looking at the obvious "muslims" it is they that will conquer and unite for common good you want to consider my friends.

I came across a news report saying all that oppose the "gun ban" are racists... they will provoke people and paint a picture of racist gun obsessed folk that needed a heavy hand and warranted strong sanctions.


Yes, many will fight with a gun.

Those of you that hear... go read the Scripture and see that we prepare to be killed not fight.

Those that seek to save their life will lose it.

Trust in the Most High and fear nothing that comes to pass.

Be not afraid for the Battle is won...

Revelation 12

11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

[loveme1]

Remember that Heavenly Father had to endure watching the Messiah suffer much pain and suffering for our Salvation.

We must pray for strength and comfort for the darkest hour that we may not of ever wanted to witness but know and Trust in all things.

Pray for me and i will pray for you.

 

[sabaqtani7]

First of all brother, I didn't call anyone wimpy and never would, even if he were one. <smile> I said, it's the wimpy attitudes so beloved by the church that I decry because it weakens our couragous spirit.

Everyone who truly loves the Lord hates violence of any kind, but sometimes it is thrust upon us whether we like it or not. If the Brits had not stood against Nazi Germany, the most popular ditty in England today would be “Deutschland, Deutschland uber alles” and they’d be “heil Hitlering” and goose-stepping all over the island. If the United States had not stood against the Japanese, the Pacific Ocean would have become a Japanese private lake and a lot more than just Nanking would have been raped. We stood against evil, not just with prayers, but with guns and bullets, which you sometimes have to do.

So that’s history, but what about today? In the Sudan, over two million Christians have been tortured and killed by Muslim murders with AK47s. That’s happening because the best weapons the natives had to defend themselves with were bows and arrows. In Darfur, if a Christian woman is feeding her baby at her breast, Muslim butchers cut off her breasts so her baby starves. There is no 7-11s close by where she could buy milk nor any money to buy it with if there were.

But on a more personal level, let’s say it was your wife to whom that was happening. Would you just stand by while those butchers did that and then kept you at gunpoint while they raped your nine year old daughter? Fanciful? NO, that’s what’s happening all over the sub-Sahara right now. I can only speak for myself, but I couldn’t stand it. I would indeed get armed and blow those inhuman monster’s heads off, praising God while I did so.

Why an I telling you all this? Because right now, our Muslim President and his appointed Islamists are infiltrating every branch of our government. The church is the only chance this country has to stop an eventual jihad right here and we are sound asleep. Even on this forum we debate whether our people should be armed or not. Ridiculous! We keep our heads buried in the sands of ignorance, like a flock of pregnant ostriches, “trusting in the Lord” to keep us from harm. I too, trust the Lord with every atom of my being, but I also try not to be a starry-eyed idiot (no personal affront intended).

I don't figure this post will get me any friends <grin>

I'd rather die, thanks.

Hatred begets hatred. And anger is a poison.

Perhaps my daughter would trust in God's plan enough to adhere to his commandments even if it means her, and my, end. I hope she knows this when I eventually have her

This life is not the end. The actions of men in this life are often horrific, and without someone to be restrained, without someone to promote peace, this world is just eye for eye, always. Death begetting death. Anger poisoning minds. Life becomes worth nothing more than the consequences of one action to the next. And where does it end?

I hope that my daughter would understand that God will give evil what it deserves, a death in hades, where Christ holds the keys, and purge men of his need to sin. If we believe, then we do as Timothy says and pray for this to happen. If we believe, then we do as Paul says and hope that this happens. If we believe, we do as Christ says and love even our enemies. I hope my daughter finds her solace in this; that all will be renewed and as Ecclesiastes says, this mortal life is pointless. All is a chasing after the wind. I hope she knows that this life is so pointless that it's only purpose is to ask 'why?' And the only purpose that ever comes from that question, after days in the wilderness, is kot 'for my life', it is in fact, for the joy in realising servitude. And pity. And humility. Leading men to the well we have found in the desert, for their sake, not our own.

I hope that my daughter would realise it is better to turn the other cheek. Better to be oppressed and hated in a meek life than to oppress and hate in a blown up prideful one.

I would hope my daughter finds compassion for even the ones who society hates. Because compassion breeds mercy, forgiveness, and above all, understanding that goes beyond the instinct of a man.

 

[loveme1]

I'd rather die, thanks.

Hatred begets hatred. And anger is a poison.

Perhaps my daughter would trust in God's plan enough to adhere to his commandments even if it means her, and my, end. I hope she knows this when I eventually have her

This life is not the end. The actions of men in this life are often horrific, and without someone to be restrained, without someone to promote peace, this world is just eye for eye, always. Death begetting death. Anger poisoning minds. Life becomes worth nothing more than the consequences of one action to the next. And where does it end?

I hope that my daughter would understand that God will give evil what it deserves, a death in hades, where Christ holds the keys, and purge men of his need to sin. If we believe, then we do as Timothy says and pray for this to happen. If we believe, then we do as Paul says and hope that this happens. If we believe, we do as Christ says and love even our enemies. I hope my daughter finds her solace in this; that all will be renewed and as Ecclesiastes says, this mortal life is pointless. All is a chasing after the wind. I hope she knows that this life is so pointless that it's only purpose is to ask 'why?' And the only purpose that ever comes from that question, after days in the wilderness, is kot 'for my life', it is in fact, for the joy in realising servitude. And pity. And humility. Leading men to the well we have found in the desert, for their sake, not our own.

I hope that my daughter would realise it is better to turn the other cheek. Better to be oppressed and hated in a meek life than to oppress and hate in a blown up prideful one.

I would hope my daughter finds compassion for even the ones who society hates. Because compassion breeds mercy, forgiveness, and above all, understanding that goes beyond the instinct of a man.

Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.

 

[honest01]

So why have one?

If you have made GOD your refuge you will not have a weapon to protect yourself with. Those who are having guns for protection are those who have not made GOD to be their refuge, and also they are those who do not trust God because if you trust GOD, you will depend on HIM entirely and not on weapons and HE will protect you and save you as HE has said in HIS words which is spirit and life. GOD says that NO WEAPON FASHION AGAINST YOU WILL PROSPER ie nothing evil will harm you.

I'm a perfect example because I trust in GOD totally and I have made HIM my refuge and due to this, no evil against me prosper.

 

[Therapon]

It's a historic fact: If people are unwilling to stand against wickedness, even to the shedding of blood, then wickedness triumphs. I've been around a long time and am not afraid of death, but I'd rather die for a purpose, not just standing around doing nothing while some really bad people harm others.

 

[PS]

It's a historic fact: If people are unwilling to stand against wickedness, even to the shedding of blood, then wickedness triumphs. I've been around a long time and am not afraid of death, but I'd rather die for a purpose, not just standing around doing nothing while some really bad people harm others.

It is a difficult one I have to admit. I can quite see that if Hitler or Saddam Hussain had not lived (and others as well) thousand of lives would be saved. This would be in the hands of the military though but for ordinary people being prepared to shoot at the first provocation or to be walking the streets touting a gun perhaps with a drink or two inside them is a step too far imo.

And if nobody had a gun, then you wouldn't need to defend yourself against gunmen.

 

[sabaqtani7]

It's a historic fact: If people are unwilling to stand against wickedness, even to the shedding of blood, then wickedness triumphs. I've been around a long time and am not afraid of death, but I'd rather die for a purpose, not just standing around doing nothing while some really bad people harm others.

It is a person's own oppression and victimization which sets them apart as victim rather than wicked.

If a man kills a murderer, then he also is a murderer.

 

[Therapon]

If a man kills a murderer, then he also is a murderer.

That is not true. You are not a murderer if you kill in self defence or in the defence of others. That is the law in every civilized country that I know of. However, the law in most places is very carefully written. You cannot use deadly force to stop a man from just hitting another person, but if he is stabbing him with a knife or hitting him with a sledge hammer, that's a different story because the other man's very life is threatened.

You can stand back and sing psalms if that's your calling, but it sure isn't mine. <wry smile>

 

[sabaqtani7]

That is not true. You are not a murderer if you kill in self defence or in the defence of others. That is the law in every civilized country that I know of. However, the law in most places is very carefully written. You cannot use deadly force to stop a man from just hitting another person, but if he is stabbing him with a knife or hitting him with a sledge hammer, that's a different story because the other man's very life is threatened.

You can stand back and sing psalms if that's your calling, but it sure isn't mine. <wry smile>

Well I don't follow a country's laws per se.

I could look all day for loopholes, but bottom line is, that's all I'd be doing. Looking for loopholes in human law.

Turn the other cheek is a personal thing. You don't have to believe in doing it. I do.

 

[Therapon]

It is a difficult one I have to admit. I can quite see that if Hitler or Saddam Hussain had not lived (and others as well) thousand of lives would be saved. This would be in the hands of the military though but for ordinary people being prepared to shoot at the first provocation or to be walking the streets touting a gun perhaps with a drink or two inside them is a step too far imo.

And if nobody had a gun, then you wouldn't need to defend yourself against gunmen.

At least you're thinking and not just trying to lay a guilt trip on me. <smile>

Nobody who loves the Lord ever wants to use deadly force for any reason and no one hates deadly force more than someone who, by circumstances beyond his control, was forced to use it. In an ideal world, nobody would need a hand gun. A shotgun or rifle to get dinner, yes, but unfortunately this is not an ideal world and we have to live with reality.

Last year, over 2500 robberies, muggings and murders were prevented by ordinary citizens who were legally carrying a gun. In fact, last I checked, not a single legal gun carrier in the country has ever hurt someone, been involved in domestic violence or committed a crime. On the other hand, criminals couldn't care less about legal, so they&#8217;ll continue to carry guns no matter what the law says. The liberals in Australia just disarmed their people and gun related crime there went through the roof. Don't believe me? Check it on the internet. Point being: If you disarm people, there is nothing to stop armed criminals from doing whatever they want.

But the 2nd Amendment isn't primarily about self defense, that went without saying. It is there to enable the American people themselves to overthrow the government if it ever becomes oppressive. Why do you think the elite in Washington are so hell-bent on gun control. It's not to keep you safer, LOL, but to keep those self-serving twits safe from us.

 

[sabaqtani7]

Fair point.

I didn't mean to guilt trip you. But this life isn't the be all and end all.

 

[Therapon]

Well I don't follow a country's laws per se.

I could look all day for loopholes, but bottom line is, that's all I'd be doing. Looking for loopholes in human law.

Turn the other cheek is a personal thing. You don't have to believe in doing it. I do.

Aren't we are supposed to be our brother's keeper? Not my law or by man's law, but by the Lords?

 

[Therapon]

Fair point.

I didn't mean to guilt trip you. But this life isn't the be all and end all.

You didn't brother, I've been a Bible teacher decades longer than you have been alive and have been involved in some pretty rough debates with a few so-called doctrinal heavyweights. Comepared to them, you are a most kindly fellow. <smile>

 

[sabaqtani7]

You didn't brother, I've been a Bible teacher decades longer than you have been alive and have been involved in some pretty rough debates with a few so-called doctrinal heavyweights. Comepared to them, you are a most kindly fellow. <smile>

thank you.

 

[iog]

Proverbs 29:25 (KJV)
The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the Lord shall be safe.

 

[iog]

Ecclesiastes 9:18 (KJV)
Wisdom is better than weapons of war: but one sinner destroyeth much good.

 

[iog]

Luke 4:10-12 (KJV)
For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee: [11] And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. [12] And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

 

[iog]

I want to point out one more time.....your speaking for Jesus.
Your doing poorly the way you use scripture, most of the time
nothing you use as scripture has the least to do with self defense.
Just remember your putting yourself in the place to be speaking
for the Lord. Thats makes u a false teacher or truth teacher.
Want u to keep that in mind.

Jesus is your defense

Not your weapon

Trust in him

Your weapon can harm. Not one soul if The Lord don't want it

All my verses have to do with the topic