God or Guns?

[RickShafer]

God's commandments stops violence
God's laws prevenat oppression
God's words stops crime

Guns kill!

God's laws prevent oppression!!!
God's Word stops crime!!!

Blunt instruments kill!!!
Cars kill!!!
Baseball bats kill!!!
Kitchen knives kill!!!
Spinning blades(lawnmowers) kill!!!
Lightning kills!!!(Ban that also)
Dogs kill!!!(Exterminate all canines, with Wolves and Coyotes)
Big cats kill!!! - (Kill all Lions and Tigers and Mountain Lions and Panthers)
Ascending and descending stairways kill!!! - (ramps for everyone)
Bathtubs kill!!! (Destroy all hard porcelain surfaces that could possibly get wet.)
Falling tree limbs kill!!! (Cut down all trees)
Food kills!!! (Choking kills so make all food liquid)
Bi-pedal motion kills!!! (Eliminate tripping - scooter's for every one)

Notice the one thing these two paid provocateurs didn't say kills?
The "legitimate" power monopoly of the State.
Now we have found the one thing they believe in.

"P.S." and "igor" love the monopoly of power in the hands of certain men........
like Hitler, and Pol Pot, and Stalin, and Mugabe, and -(insert dictator here).

 

[1Christianwarrior316]

both, Guns are used to kill people and they were used to kill the Britts and establish the great nation of the United States they were also used to kill the Germans to defeat Hitler, Guns were taken away from the Jews and guess what? the German Gov still had theirs, and then the Jews were unarmed sitting ducks led to be murdered (6 million of them including women and Children) The media in Germany propagated the whole thing just like what they are doing in the USA...Governments throughout history have been the mass murderers and they don't seem like they are going to give their guns up.

Has not history taught us anything?

1Christianwarrior316

 

[loveme1]

One must accept that the world is not what the television makes it out to be same with the internet.

One need look no further than their Bible to see that the New world Order is part of the "evil agenda"

watch the news and see how they will inform you and then summarize the information for you... all you should do is listen and believe.. the last thing they want you to do is think for yourself.

If you do start looking for alternative information they have taken care of that also... many adhere to infowars.. jessie ventura.

Friends there is only one Truth and though it may appear like they are helping you they are just another form of provoking and conditioning you.

Reject it all and seek the Almighty for He is the Truth and Good Forever.

may you take the flag from off of your face and see that all comes to pass to show us the outcome of the rebellion.

Let us look forward for peace and safety not by man but from the Almighty.

The Bible tells us how it ends.

1 Thessalonians 5

But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. 7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. 8But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
12And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you; 13And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves. 14Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men. 15See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men. 16Rejoice evermore. 17Pray without ceasing. 18In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. 19Quench not the Spirit. 20Despise not prophesyings. 21Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22Abstain from all appearance of evil.

23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

25Brethren, pray for us.

26Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss. 27I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.

28The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen

 

[Therapon]

Has not history taught us anything?

1Christianwarrior316

A couple of pages ago, I posted a link to a video proving that disarming the Australian people a few years ago was responsible for a doubling of gun related crime. Armed robberies up 69%, assaults with guns up 29%, home invasions up 21%, gun murders up 19% and so on. But we can't believe that, can we? It goes against our "faith and nothing but faith" doctrine.

So what was the thoughtful response to those statistics? Devotional platitudes; that if we're sanctified enough, trusting in Jesus is all that is needed for safety and security. I guess those robbed, assaulted and murdered Australlians just didn't trust Jesus enough, and Abraham Lincoln was a fool. The Jews in Nazi Germany must not have trusted in G-d either, because Hitler's disarming them led to six million Jews being murdered.

According to some, we Christians are supposed to just lay down and allow ourselves to be tortured, raped and butchered, smiling through it all because we trust in Jesus; totally forgetting that the Lord takes no delight in the suffering of His children. We don't get bigger mansions because we did nothing to save our families from laying face down in muddy ditchs, riddled with bullet holes from the guns that the wicked see no problems carrying.

I trust in the Lord, too, with every atom of my being. But Scripture tells me, "if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel," 1Timothy 5:8. But hey, that must only mean food and clothing; it can't possibly mean defending my family with a gun, even at the cost of my own life, because defending what is right against truly wicked men is absolutely forbidden. How utterly rediculous!

Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it," Gibbons, from "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire."

 

[PS]

A couple of pages ago, I posted a link to a video proving that disarming the Australian people a few years ago was responsible for a doubling of gun related crime. Armed robberies up 69%, assaults with guns up 29%, home invasions up 21%, gun murders up 19% and so on. But we can't believe that, can we? It goes against our "faith and nothing but faith" doctrine.

So what was the thoughtful response to those statistics? Devotional platitudes; that if we're sanctified enough, trusting in Jesus is all that is needed for safety and security. I guess those robbed, assaulted and murdered Australlians just didn't trust Jesus enough, and Abraham Lincoln was a fool. The Jews in Nazi Germany must not have trusted in G-d either, because Hitler's disarming them led to six million Jews being murdered.

According to some, we Christians are supposed to just lay down and allow ourselves to be tortured, raped and butchered, smiling through it all because we trust in Jesus; totally forgetting that the Lord takes no delight in the suffering of His children. We don't get bigger mansions because we did nothing to save our families from laying face down in muddy ditchs, riddled with bullet holes from the guns that the wicked see no problems carrying.

I trust in the Lord, too, with every atom of my being. But Scripture tells me, "if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel," 1Timothy 5:8. But hey, that must only mean food and clothing; it can't possibly mean defending my family with a gun, even at the cost of my own life, because defending what is right against truly wicked men is absolutely forbidden!

Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it," Gibbons, from "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire."

That video proved two things, firstly people with guns kill. We know this and that is why people should not be allowed them. Secondly, the Australian government failed to do what they set out to do, which was to get rid the country of guns. Big fail on the part of the Australian government but please don't use that as an excuse.

 

[Abiding]

how could that be achieved?

 

[PS]

how could that be achieved?

As gun carrying criminals are caught they are charged with both the crime and the offence of carrying an offensive weapon. As the police investigate their contacts those who supplied the guns are charged and hopefully the ring is shut down the same as happens with drug rings.

As well as that there is a gun amnesty which allows for people to hand their guns in anomalously without being charged.

 

[loveme1]

1 Timothy 5

5 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;

2 The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.

3 Honour widows that are widows indeed.

4 But if any widow have children or nephews, let them learn first to shew piety at home, and to requite their parents: for that is good and acceptable before God.

5 Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God, and continueth in supplications and prayers night and day.

6 But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.

7 And these things give in charge, that they may be blameless.

8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

9 Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man.

10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;

12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.

14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.

16 If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them relieve them, and let not the church be charged; that it may relieve them that are widows indeed.

17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

18 For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.

20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure.

23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

24 Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.

25 Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.

 

[Therapon]

That video proved two things, firstly people with guns kill. We know this and that is why people should not be allowed them. Secondly, the Australian government failed to do what they set out to do, which was to get rid the country of guns. Big fail on the part of the Australian government but please don't use that as an excuse.

Please explain to me why gun related crime is on the rise in the UK.

 

[PS]

Please explain to me why gun related crime is on the rise in the UK.

I don't know but that no excuse to fuel the fire by putting guns into the shops.

 

[Ariel82]

33 pages break.... http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...role-christian-debate-discussion-arguing.html

 

[Therapon]

I don't know but that no excuse to fuel the fire by putting guns into the shops.

Really? Did you know that the United States, with about 200,000,000 guns in the hands of the Anerican people, has the lowest gun-related murder rate on the planet? 4.2 per 100,000 people! Every other country in the world, including the UK itself, rates higher, with the highest gun-related murder rates in those countries with 100% gun control.

If you don't believe me, I'll post the complete statistics next, country by country.

 

[PS]

Really? Did you know that the United States, with about 200,000,000 guns in the hands of the Anerican people, has the lowest gun-related murder rate on the planet? 4.2 per 100,000 people! Every other country in the world, including the UK itself, rates higher, with the highest gun-related murder rates in those countries with 100% gun control.

If you don't believe me, I'll post the complete statistics next, country by country.

Just think of all the lives that could have been saved.

If it were a country, New Orleans (with a rate 62.1 gun murders per 100,000 people) would rank second in the world.
Detroit's gun homicide rate (35.9) is just a bit less than El Salvador (39.9).
Baltimore's rate (29.7) is not too far off that of Guatemala (34.8).
Gun murder in Newark (25.4) and Miami (23.7) is comparable to Colombia (27.1).
Washington D.C. (19) has a higher rate of gun homicide than Brazil (18.1).
Atlanta's rate (17.2) is about the same as South Africa (17).
Cleveland (17.4) has a higher rate than the Dominican Republic (16.3).
Gun murder in Buffalo (16.5) is similar to Panama (16.2).
Houston's rate (12.9) is slightly higher than Ecuador's (12.7).
Gun homicide in Chicago (11.6) is similar to Guyana (11.5).
Phoenix's rate (10.6) is slightly higher than Mexico (10).
Los Angeles (9.2) is comparable to the Philippines (8.9).
Boston rate (6.2) is higher than Nicaragua (5.9).
New York, where gun murders have declined to just four per 100,000, is still higher than Argentina (3).
Even the cities with the lowest homicide rates by American standards, like San Jose and Austin, compare to Albania and Cambodia respectively.

.

 

[RickShafer]

But the problem with your logic is that all of those cities except Austin(the lowest) prohibit guns.
So the only people who have them in those jurisdictions are criminals.
Also, none of the crimes prevented by firearms in the possession of law abiding citizens are recorded.
Because a crime didn't take place.
I tell you, I and my neighbors are armed, and we don't have crime here.
It just doesn't take place.
No one gets assailed.
No one gets mugged.
No one gets murdered.
No muggings, no break ins.
No home invasions, no assaults.
It just doesn't happen.
Why? Because criminals are cowardly.
You have a greater than ten percent crime rate in your country.
Crime runs rampant because you are totally unarmed.
Easy targets.
I can't imagine living in a country where over ten percent of the population are
victimized every year.
To me, that seems unimaginable.
In America, the vast majority of prisoners are incarcerated for drug offenses.
- (Which is another subject altogether).
But the point is, they are in for non-violent crimes. - (The vast majority of them)

 

[Therapon]

Just think of all the lives that could have been saved.

If it were a country, New Orleans (with a rate 62.1 gun murders per 100,000 people) would rank second in the world.
Detroit's gun homicide rate (35.9) is just a bit less than El Salvador (39.9).
Baltimore's rate (29.7) is not too far off that of Guatemala (34.8).
Gun murder in Newark (25.4) and Miami (23.7) is comparable to Colombia (27.1).
Washington D.C. (19) has a higher rate of gun homicide than Brazil (18.1).
Atlanta's rate (17.2) is about the same as South Africa (17).
Cleveland (17.4) has a higher rate than the Dominican Republic (16.3).
Gun murder in Buffalo (16.5) is similar to Panama (16.2).
Houston's rate (12.9) is slightly higher than Ecuador's (12.7).
Gun homicide in Chicago (11.6) is similar to Guyana (11.5).
Phoenix's rate (10.6) is slightly higher than Mexico (10).
Los Angeles (9.2) is comparable to the Philippines (8.9).
Boston rate (6.2) is higher than Nicaragua (5.9).
New York, where gun murders have declined to just four per 100,000, is still higher than Argentina. (3).
Even the cities with the lowest homicide rates by American standards, like San Jose and Austin, compare to Albania and Cambodia respectively.

Yes, and those murder murders are committed by gangs and other criminal elements who wouldn't obey a gun ban regardless of how draconian it was. Among law abiding gun owners in the United States, the % is Zero! Anyway, here are the statistics by country . . .

From the World Health Organization
The latest statistics worldwide . . . Murders per 100,000 citizens.

Honduras 91.6
El Salvador 69.2
Cote d'lvoire 56.9
Jamaica 52.2
Venezuela 45.1
Belize 41.4
US Virgin Islands 39.2
Guatemala 38.5
Saint Kits and Nevis 38.2
Zambia 38.0
Uganda 36.3
Malawi 36.0
Lesotho 35.2
Trinidad and Tobago 35.2
Colombia 33.4
South Africa 31.8
Congo 30.8
Central African Republic 29.3
Bahamas 27.4
Puerto Rico 26.2
Saint Lucia 25.2
Dominican Republic 25.0
Tanzania 24.5
Sudan 24.2
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 22.9
Ethiopia 22.5
Guinea 22.5
Dominica 22.1
Burundi 21.7
Democratic Republic of the Congo 21.7
Panama 21.6
Brazil 21.0
Equatorial Guinea 20.7
Guinea-Bissau 20.2
Kenya 20.1
Kyrgyzstan 20.1
Cameroon 19.7
Montserrat 19.7
Greenland 19.2
Angola 19.0
Guyana 18.6
Burkina Faso 18.0
Eritrea 17.8
Namibia 17.2
Rwanda 17.1
Mexico 16.9
Chad 15.8
Ghana 15.7
Ecuador 15.2
North Korea 15.2
Benin 15.1
Sierra Leone 14.9
Mauritania 14.7
Botswana 14.5
Zimbabwe 14.3
Gabon 13.8
Nicaragua 13.6
French Guiana 13.3
Papua New Guinea 13.0
Swaziland 12.9
Bermuda 12.3
Comoros 12.2
Nigeria 12.2
Cape Verde 11.6
Grenada 11.5
Paraguay 11.5
Barbados 11.3
Togo 10.9
Gambia 10.8
Peru 10.8
Myanmar 10.2
Russia 10.2
Liberia 10.1
Costa Rica 10.0
Nauru 9.8
Bolivia 8.9
Mozambique 8.8
Kazakhstan 8.8
Senegal 8.7
Turks and Caicos Islands 8.7
Mongolia 8.7
British Virgin Islands 8.6
Cayman Islands 8.4
Seychelles 8.3
Madagascar 8.1
Indonesia 8.1
Mali 8.0
Pakistan 7.8
Moldova 7.5
Kiribati 7.3
Guadeloupe 7.0
Haiti 6.9
Timor-Leste 6.9
Anguilla 6.8
Antigua and Barbuda 6.8
Lithuania 6.6
Uruguay 5.9
Philippines 5.4
Ukraine 5.2
Estonia 5.2
Cuba 5.0
Belarus 4.9
Thailand 4.8
Suriname 4.6
Laos 4.6
Georgia 4.3
Martinique 4.2

The United States 4.2

ALL countries above the United States have100% gun bans! In the UK, there has been an estimated 3000 "honor killings" perpetrated by the Muslims in London, suburbs and the surrounding countryside, many committed with guns. So it doesn't appear that your gun ban is working out to well for you folks either. However, being without guns, you are just sitting ducks for the bad guys.

You just do not understand. No law abiding citizen shoots to kill, he shoots to stay alive.

 

[Therapon]

But the problem with your logic is that all of those cities except Austin(the lowest) prohibit guns.
So the only people who have them in those jurisdictions are criminals.
Also, none of the crimes prevented by firearms in the possession of law abiding citizens are recorded.
Because a crime didn't take place.
I tell you, I and my neighbors are armed, and we don't have crime here.
It just doesn't take place.
No one gets assailed.
No one gets mugged.
No one gets murdered.
No muggings, no break ins.
No home invasions, no assaults.
It just doesn't happen.
Why? Because criminals are cowardly.
You have a greater than ten percent crime rate in your country.
Crime runs rampant because you are totally unarmed.
Easy targets.
I can't imagine living in a country where over ten percent of the population are
victimized every year.
To me, that seems unimaginable.
In America, the vast majority of prisoners are incarcerated for drug offenses.
- (Which is another subject altogether).
But the point is, they are in for non-violent crimes. - (The vast majority of them)

Finally, someone with his head screwed on straight. Breakins and all that other stuff doesn't happen in our town either. Why, because perpetrators know that most homeowners are armed. If they attempted a breakin, getting carted off in a body bag is certainly high on the list of probable outcomes. <wry smile>

 

[PS]

Finally, someone with his head screwed on straight. Breakins and all that other stuff doesn't happen in our town either. Why, because perpetrators know that most homeowners are armed. If they attempted a breakin, getting carted off in a body bag is certainly high on the list of probable outcomes. <wry smile>

MURDERERS and you seem happy about it with your smiling!

 

[RickShafer]

MURDERERS and you seem happy about it with your smiling!

You have a basic misconception of reality P.S.
People who defend themselves are not "in fact" murderers.
They are those who Jesus told to buy swords. - (Namely defenders of the innocent)
I know that concept is hard for you to understand.
Do you know the difference between a 'murderer' and someone that defends themselves and their family?
Its quite a difference, you should look it up under Morality 101. - (Maybe you skipped that class)

 

[Therapon]

MURDERERS and you seem happy about it with your smiling!

Cool it, my British friend; you have to cut us barbaric colonials a little slack; I was smiling at my very American gallows humor, nobody wants to hurt anyone, LOL.

However, if you shot out a few ot the criminals who are attacking your countrymen, you'd be surprised at how quickly those same perpetrators would stop what they're doing and become loyal, law abiding subjects of the Crown. <smile>

 

[peterT]

Are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Do you think the right-wing nation loving nationalistic gun wielding Christians are of the few there be that find it.

There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.