GREASY GRACE?
- Thread starter 88
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Of course He did! Jesus began His earthly ministry calling people to repent and believe the good news. People like you lump all kinds of Christians together and smear them with the same brush, because you are lacking in discernment, falsely accusing others and refusing to take responsibility for your errors while you preach love, and talk about accepting what is written, while you reject what is written.
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames. (1 Cor. 3:11-15)
are we under the old covenant? and consider mr princes teaching on this. The lamb under the old system did not cover future sins, but those past, those repented and confessed. then the lamb was brought to the priest, the priest checked the Lamb, the person transferred thier sins ( the same procedure as the scapegoat principle of the mosaic Law) onto the Lamb and it was slain because of the sin of the worshipper. but if we are teaching this principle realize the past sin is forgiven JUST LIKE PAULS TEACHES OF JESUS. so thank you.
romans 3:25-26 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PASSED, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."
thats a really good principle indeed. to learn that the sacrifice of atonement were for the past sins commited, really highlights one of the points i believe and have been looking for a good example in scripture. ty, also Just to add this thought. is Jesus merely a lamb of atonement? Or is He also the Lord of Heaven and earth?
romans 3:25-26 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PASSED, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."
thats a really good principle indeed. to learn that the sacrifice of atonement were for the past sins commited, really highlights one of the points i believe and have been looking for a good example in scripture. ty, also Just to add this thought. is Jesus merely a lamb of atonement? Or is He also the Lord of Heaven and earth?
sorry magenta i cant see your posts usually alng time ago i put a few of you on ignore to try to keep peace because we constantly argue over any point the other makes. Just letting you know i just see that you comment but cant see them. again in order to keep peace notto offend you or anything. Just got really tired of the constant " Jesus is God" debate. its more peaceful for me to bow out of the arguments. im not sure what the above scripture you left has to do with john 15, but all scripture is good. but i was referring here, and i still hold to Jesus the Lords words to understand the others and not pauls words to understand everything. so i think well most likely just argue as the prior 100 times but the Lord JESUS SAID.....
john 15:1-11 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full."
Peace and Gods Love is yours....
john 15:1-11 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full."
Peace and Gods Love is yours....
The blood of bulls and goats never removed sin.
[FONT="]For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT]Past sins does not refer to one person's sins, but the sins of all who lived before the atonement made by Jesus Christ on the cross the shedding of His righteous blood as a propitiatory sacrifice out of His great love for us.
[FONT="]For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT]Past sins does not refer to one person's sins, but the sins of all who lived before the atonement made by Jesus Christ on the cross the shedding of His righteous blood as a propitiatory sacrifice out of His great love for us.
I will continue to point out your errors regardless of whether you can see them or not. I understand you prefer your blindness, and that is certainly your prerogative.
Jason multiple times misrepresents Scripture, adding to it as he pleases, saying such things as Jesus' heel bone was obviously pierced through with a nail despite the fact that Scripture attests to the fact that no bones were broken. Beware the deceiver.
Jason multiple times misrepresents Scripture, adding to it as he pleases, saying such things as Jesus' heel bone was obviously pierced through with a nail despite the fact that Scripture attests to the fact that no bones were broken. Beware the deceiver.
I'm not clear on what you're asking me followjesus, but there is one point I can clearly comment on.
John 8:35The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
Thanks for the encouraging words, I like your viewpoint as well. I think we are both doing our best with what we currently understand.
John 8:35The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
Thanks for the encouraging words, I like your viewpoint as well. I think we are both doing our best with what we currently understand.
okay magenta 
have you ever read the sacrifice of atonement law in Moses?
the lamb was brought to the priest, and the sins of the worshipper were transferred by Faith into the Lamb of atonement. Then the Lamb was slain for the persons sin. in this way the worshipper went away forgiven and clean before God. not because of anything apart from " God said if they did that, they were forgiven" they believed God, obeyed Gods commandment and were forgiven. forgiveness was in the first covenant, the diffrence is Jesus blood REMOVES OUR SIN. it is different than the mosaic Law of atonement because the animals blood didnt purify the nature of the sinner. they were forgiven, but not made righteous. thats what that single scripture in context explains.
notice they went away unchanged and remained a "stiff necked rebellious people" JESUS BLOOD TAKES SINNERS AND MAKES THEM OBEDIENT CHILDREN OF GOD EAGER TO DO THE WORKS COMMANDED BY GOD. Moses sacrificial system didnt offer that because God never said it in the Law. Jesus came to take those sins from us, to free us from them and creat ne beings filled with the nature of Jesus, who Love the idea of doing the things God commands.
have you ever read the sacrifice of atonement law in Moses?the lamb was brought to the priest, and the sins of the worshipper were transferred by Faith into the Lamb of atonement. Then the Lamb was slain for the persons sin. in this way the worshipper went away forgiven and clean before God. not because of anything apart from " God said if they did that, they were forgiven" they believed God, obeyed Gods commandment and were forgiven. forgiveness was in the first covenant, the diffrence is Jesus blood REMOVES OUR SIN. it is different than the mosaic Law of atonement because the animals blood didnt purify the nature of the sinner. they were forgiven, but not made righteous. thats what that single scripture in context explains.
notice they went away unchanged and remained a "stiff necked rebellious people" JESUS BLOOD TAKES SINNERS AND MAKES THEM OBEDIENT CHILDREN OF GOD EAGER TO DO THE WORKS COMMANDED BY GOD. Moses sacrificial system didnt offer that because God never said it in the Law.
Jesus came to take those sins from us, to free us from them and creat ne beings filled with the nature of Jesus, who Love the idea of doing the things God commands.
okay magenta have you ever read the sacrifice of atonement law in Moses?
the lamb was brought to the priest, and the sins of the worshipper were transferred by Faith into the Lamb of atonement. Then the Lamb was slain for the persons sin. in this way the worshipper went away forgiven and clean before God. not because of anything apart from " God said if they did that, they were forgiven" they believed God, obeyed Gods commandment and were forgiven. forgiveness was in the first covenant, the diffrence is Jesus blood REMOVES OUR SIN. it is different than the mosaic Law of atonement because the animals blood didnt purify the nature of the sinner. they were forgiven, but not made righteous. thats what that single scripture in context explains.
notice they went away unchanged and remained a "stiff necked rebellious people" JESUS BLOOD TAKES SINNERS AND MAKES THEM OBEDIENT CHILDREN OF GOD EAGER TO DO THE WORKS COMMANDED BY GOD. Moses sacrificial system didnt offer that because God never said it in the Law. Jesus came to take those sins from us, to free us from them and creat ne beings filled with the nature of Jesus, who Love the idea of doing the things God commands.
have you ever read the sacrifice of atonement law in Moses?the lamb was brought to the priest, and the sins of the worshipper were transferred by Faith into the Lamb of atonement. Then the Lamb was slain for the persons sin. in this way the worshipper went away forgiven and clean before God. not because of anything apart from " God said if they did that, they were forgiven" they believed God, obeyed Gods commandment and were forgiven. forgiveness was in the first covenant, the diffrence is Jesus blood REMOVES OUR SIN. it is different than the mosaic Law of atonement because the animals blood didnt purify the nature of the sinner. they were forgiven, but not made righteous. thats what that single scripture in context explains.
notice they went away unchanged and remained a "stiff necked rebellious people" JESUS BLOOD TAKES SINNERS AND MAKES THEM OBEDIENT CHILDREN OF GOD EAGER TO DO THE WORKS COMMANDED BY GOD. Moses sacrificial system didnt offer that because God never said it in the Law.
Jesus came to take those sins from us, to free us from them and creat ne beings filled with the nature of Jesus, who Love the idea of doing the things God commands.
indeed i appreciate that you look deep enough into the things i say, to understand that were all learning, each of us at a different point but all pressing forward.
about that scripture
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF YE CONTINUE IN MY WORD , then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall KNOW THE TRUTH, and THE TRUTH shall make you free. 33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.35And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be FREE INDEED.
now if you have time or when you do consider v 31-32 and then look here
john 14:15-17 "If ye love me, keep my commandments.16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;17Even the SPIRIT OF TRUTH; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
do you see the repetition concerning Knowing the truth? how the truth comes from the words of Jesus and abiding in those words and teachings? that according to Jesus, following Him is wherethe sopirit of truth comes from, keeping His words.
on a totally different note , cee honestly, alot of people im sure arent like me in this, but often in a disagreement about a point of doctrine and belief, is the place i find correction more than constant agreement and back patting. idk if that makes sense, but i grow often moreso when there is a differeing point with people such as yourself that approach Gods word in an effort to grow in the Knowledge it offers, the Knowledge of Our great God, and Our Savior Jesus Christ.
there was a time i didnt appreciate the value of " repent, repent, repent" but at this point in my life, i see it as the most wonderful wisdom to simply repent and learn righteousness and apply it to life. in no way do i look down on anyone, i consider myself worth less than anyone on this site and that is the truth in Jesus. But i do Know that Jesus is the One God sent to Save us, and my Hearts passion is to share the things that Jesus taught to His disciples. i would never consider a man as yourself a false teacher, given the things you always present. but i do see a real danger when Grace teaches us to look away from what the Lord taught us. lol i get passionate at times, but im really unaffected by debates unless i find good value to grow in then im affected in a great way. but ive learned to not be easily offended because Jesus words will cause insult no matter where they are spoken or by Who.
God bless you bro, i appreciate the conversation, and meekness you exhibit
about that scripture
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF YE CONTINUE IN MY WORD , then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall KNOW THE TRUTH, and THE TRUTH shall make you free. 33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.35And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be FREE INDEED.
now if you have time or when you do consider v 31-32 and then look here
john 14:15-17 "If ye love me, keep my commandments.16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;17Even the SPIRIT OF TRUTH; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
do you see the repetition concerning Knowing the truth? how the truth comes from the words of Jesus and abiding in those words and teachings? that according to Jesus, following Him is wherethe sopirit of truth comes from, keeping His words.
on a totally different note , cee honestly, alot of people im sure arent like me in this, but often in a disagreement about a point of doctrine and belief, is the place i find correction more than constant agreement and back patting. idk if that makes sense, but i grow often moreso when there is a differeing point with people such as yourself that approach Gods word in an effort to grow in the Knowledge it offers, the Knowledge of Our great God, and Our Savior Jesus Christ.
there was a time i didnt appreciate the value of " repent, repent, repent" but at this point in my life, i see it as the most wonderful wisdom to simply repent and learn righteousness and apply it to life. in no way do i look down on anyone, i consider myself worth less than anyone on this site and that is the truth in Jesus. But i do Know that Jesus is the One God sent to Save us, and my Hearts passion is to share the things that Jesus taught to His disciples. i would never consider a man as yourself a false teacher, given the things you always present. but i do see a real danger when Grace teaches us to look away from what the Lord taught us. lol i get passionate at times, but im really unaffected by debates unless i find good value to grow in then im affected in a great way. but ive learned to not be easily offended because Jesus words will cause insult no matter where they are spoken or by Who.
God bless you bro, i appreciate the conversation, and meekness you exhibit
Jesus died nearly 2000 years ago and he is not dying again. there is pretty clear scripture about that actually. if you do know of the future present and past sins forgiven, please do share that one. because Myself i kinda like to stick with what the scripture says. and it does say " propititation of sins that are past" im just hazy on why we omit Jesus doctrine about forgiveness of our current and future sin. that also is really straight forward.
G
actually its not important, ill make sure to proofread any other communication we have God bless you
God bless you
sure, do these scriptures though cancel out the words of JESUS? for instance Grace that teaches " Jesus words arent all meant for you" that is Grace, canceling out Gods word. for instance
john 12:48-50 "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak."
things like this Kind of are straight forward to me. i guess you arent understanding my question probly because i ramble, let me keep it simple
given what Jesus says here, why according to scripture is this cancelled out because of Grace? or ill add a couple more samples
Romans 2: 5-11 "Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God."
what about the grace scriptures nullifies Pauls teaching on coming Judgement? payng close attention to v7-10. is this not pauls teaching concerning Judgement? and is He not saying eternal Life and glory to one set of people whther jew or gentile, and wrath for the others? why would paul teach saved by grace THROUGH FAITH and also give so many warnings like this or galatians 6? concerning eternal Life, not rewards and still saved taught here but eternal Life at stake?
how does Grace cancel it all out is my question? why so very many warnings from Jesus, paul, peter, John and kames against disobeying the gospel?
john 12:48-50 "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak."
things like this Kind of are straight forward to me. i guess you arent understanding my question probly because i ramble, let me keep it simple
given what Jesus says here, why according to scripture is this cancelled out because of Grace? or ill add a couple more samples
Romans 2: 5-11 "Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God."
what about the grace scriptures nullifies Pauls teaching on coming Judgement? payng close attention to v7-10. is this not pauls teaching concerning Judgement? and is He not saying eternal Life and glory to one set of people whther jew or gentile, and wrath for the others? why would paul teach saved by grace THROUGH FAITH and also give so many warnings like this or galatians 6? concerning eternal Life, not rewards and still saved taught here but eternal Life at stake?
how does Grace cancel it all out is my question? why so very many warnings from Jesus, paul, peter, John and kames against disobeying the gospel?
You perhaps need to look at a few different translations to become clear on the concept that former sins, or sins past, do not refer to one person's sins but the sins from before the atonement offered through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
Romans 3:25 (NASB)
25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
Romans 3:25 (ESV)
25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Think about it Jason. He did not pass over our former sins!
Romans 3:25 (NASB)
25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
Romans 3:25 (ESV)
25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Think about it Jason. He did not pass over our former sins!