Has the gift of speaking in tongues ceased? - Tim Conway

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DustyRhodes

Senior Member
Dec 30, 2016
1,019
49
48
#41
Well said I agree.

For some reason there seems to an emphasis on tongues and a disregard to the other gifts.

I was even told once because I did not speak in tongues then it was evidence I wasn't saved.
Carried that one round for a long time.
yes that was my point too...i've had
several people who speak in tongues claiming to be above everyone else
 
May 12, 2017
2,641
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#42
yes that was my point too...i've had
several people who speak in tongues claiming to be above everyone else
Yeah I have encountered this as well. In my experience, these are folks just in their flesh, or walking in the flesh. We usually just ignore them.
 

Sagart

Senior Member
May 7, 2017
299
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#43
I do not want to give it 20 minutes of my life, I watched it 4 minutes or so.

I think that he did not realize the context of what he is reading. Prophecies, tongues... (all revelations for churches). Then, when the perfect (revelation) comes, the tongues will cease.

We now have the complete word of God, we do not need any tongues or prophecies. When the OT books were finished, the prophets also disappeared for 400 years.
There have been, during the past 90-100 or so years, very many Baptists teaching that το τελειον (translated as ‘that which is perfect’ in the KJV) is speaking of the Scriptures, our Bible. This teaching originated out of a desire to teach from the Scriptures that the gift of tongues had passed away. It is argued by these Baptists that το τελειον is neuter in gender and therefore cannot be speaking of Christ (masculine in gender) and His return, as was the teaching of Baptists and the very large majority other Christians prior to that time. This teaching is without any merit of any sort, however, because the words are speaking of the event of Christ’s second coming (neuter in gender) when that which is partial will be done away, and that which is complete and perfect comes to be.

1 Cor. 13:9. For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
10. but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
11. When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.
12. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.
13. But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love. (NASB, 1995)

The correct interpretation cannot be determined, however, by consulting lexicons alone because the determining factor in this case is the context. Today, we know in part and we prophesy in part, but upon the second coming of Christ, we will know fully just as we have been known fully. The context and the resulting meaning are very clear, and I am not aware of a single, exegetical commentary on the Greek text of 1 Corinthians written by a Baptist or a Christian of any other affiliation that interprets it in an appreciably different manner.

Moreover, various Christian groups have various concepts of the biblical canon. When we compare the Bibles used by various Christian groups, we find the following writings that are not found in the Protestant Canon but which are found in the Bibles of other Christian groups:

Books and Additions to Esther and Daniel that are in the Roman Catholic, Greek, and Slavonic Bibles

Tobit
Judith
The Additions to the Book of Esther found in the Greek Version
The Wisdom of Solomon
Ecclesiasticus, or the Wisdom of Jesus, Son of Sirach
Baruch
The Letter of Jeremiah (Baruch ch. 6)
The Additions to the Greek Book of Daniel
The Prayer of Azariah and the Song of the Three Jews
Susanna
Bel and the Dragon
1 Maccabees
2 Maccabees

Books in the Greek and Slavonic Bibles; Not in the Roman Catholic Canon

1 Esdras (2 Esdras in the Slavonic Bible, 3 Esdras in Appendix to the Vulgate)
The Prayer of Manasseh
Psalm 151
3 Maccabees

A composite book in the Slavonic Bible and in the Latin Vulgate Appendix

2 Esdras (3 Esdras in the Slavonic Bible, 4 Esdras in the Vulgate Appendix; “Esdras” is the Greek form of “Era”)

(Note: In the Latin Vulgate, Ezra- Nehemiah are 1 and 2 Esdras.)

A book in an Appendix to the Greek Bible

4 Maccabees (This book is included in two important Bibles from the fourth and fifth century.)


During Paul’s day, there was no New Testament and no thought of a complete Bible. Furthermore, the New Testament cites or alludes to as authoritative the following works,

Book of Enoch (Jude 4,6,13,14–15, 2 Peter 2:4; 3:13)
The epistle from Laodicea (Col. 4:16)
The Assumption of Moses (Jude 9 “But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses”)
Martydom of Isaiah (Hebrews 11:37 "they were sawn in two")

Additionally, the Old Testament cites or alludes to as authoritative a number of non-canonical works.
 
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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
8,924
275
83
#44
There have been, during the past 90-100 or so years, very many Baptists teaching that το τελειον (translated as ‘that which is perfect’ in the KJV) is speaking of the Scriptures, our Bible. This teaching originated out of a desire to teach from the Scriptures that the gift of tongues had passed away. It is argued by these Baptists that το τελειον is neuter in gender and therefore cannot be speaking of Christ (masculine in gender) and His return, as was the teaching of Baptists and the very large majority other Christians prior to that time. This teaching is without any merit of any sort, however, because the words are speaking of the event of Christ’s second coming (neuter in gender) when that which is partial will be done away, and that which is complete and perfect comes to be.

1 Cor. 13:9. For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
10. but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
11. When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.
12. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.
13. But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love. (NASB, 1995)

The correct interpretation cannot be determined, however, by consulting lexicons alone because the determining factor in this case is the context. Today, we know in part and we prophesy in part, but upon the second coming of Christ, we will know fully just as we have been known fully. The context and the resulting meaning are very clear, and I am not aware of a single, exegetical commentary on the Greek text of 1 Corinthians written by a Baptist or a Christian of any other affiliation that interprets it in an appreciably different manner.

Moreover, various Christian groups have various concepts of the biblical canon. When we compare the Bibles used by various Christian groups, we find the following writings that are not found in the Protestant Canon but which are found in the Bibles of other Christian groups:

Books and Additions to Esther and Daniel that are in the Roman Catholic, Greek, and Slavonic Bibles

Tobit
Judith
The Additions to the Book of Esther found in the Greek Version
The Wisdom of Solomon
Ecclesiasticus, or the Wisdom of Jesus, Son of Sirach
Baruch
The Letter of Jeremiah (Baruch ch. 6)
The Additions to the Greek Book of Daniel
The Prayer of Azariah and the Song of the Three Jews
Susanna
Bel and the Dragon
1 Maccabees
2 Maccabees

Books in the Greek and Slavonic Bibles; Not in the Roman Catholic Canon

1 Esdras (2 Esdras in the Slavonic Bible, 3 Esdras in Appendix to the Vulgate)
The Prayer of Manasseh
Psalm 151
3 Maccabees

A composite book in the Slavonic Bible and in the Latin Vulgate Appendix

2 Esdras (3 Esdras in the Slavonic Bible, 4 Esdras in the Vulgate Appendix; “Esdras” is the Greek form of “Era”)

(Note: In the Latin Vulgate, Ezra- Nehemiah are 1 and 2 Esdras.)

A book in an Appendix to the Greek Bible

4 Maccabees (This book is included in two important Bibles from the fourth and fifth century.)


During Paul’s day, there was no New Testament and no thought of a complete Bible. Furthermore, the New Testament cites or alludes to as authoritative the following works,

Book of Enoch (Jude 4,6,13,14–15, 2 Peter 2:4; 3:13)
The epistle from Laodicea (Col. 4:16)
The Assumption of Moses (Jude 9 “But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses”)
Martydom of Isaiah (Hebrews 11:37 "they were sawn in two")

Additionally, the Old Testament cites or alludes to as authoritative a number of non-canonical works.
What exactly do you mean by the Slavonic Bible?

I am Slavonic and I have actually no idea...

On the other hand, we can also say that the canon of the OT was not closed till 70 AD.
 

Sagart

Senior Member
May 7, 2017
299
9
0
#45
What exactly do you mean by the Slavonic Bible?

I am Slavonic and I have actually no idea...

On the other hand, we can also say that the canon of the OT was not closed till 70 AD.
I mean the Slavonic Orthodox Canon. Slavonic
 
Dec 3, 2016
1,674
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#47
I am Slavonic and I have actually no idea...
Sounds like you're behind the 8 ball then


I was even told once because I did not speak in tongues then it was evidence I wasn't saved.
Doesn't mean yer not saved... it just means you are not using a major tool the Lord gave to His people that ALL of us should be using in our private prayer life so the Lord can pray the will of God thru us... and help our weaknesses... and build us up in faith.

These are all major advantages over religious minded people who have been taught in error that the Lord does not participate in this anymore with His true followers. Oh well, it's their loss.

Without it, we just throwin all prayer we can think of in our mind and hope some of it helps and in many case it does not.

In addition to praying the will of the Lord, I like it cause it's encrypted communication between me and the Lord that the devil cannot understand.
 
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CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
563
23
18
#48
Tongues have not ceased from the church. It is a way to build oneself up and pray for others when you don't know what to pray. Just be sure to have a mature Christian pray for you if you want to speak in tongues. There is such things as counterfeit tongues. The people who are being led by the Holy Spirit are blessing the Lord in tongues. The people being led by the devil will be cursing God in tongues. You got to be careful who you ask for to receive the Holy Spirit from. Make sure it is a bible believing Christian not just anybody. When I was prayed for to receive the Spirit, I was not seeking tongues, just the Holy Spirit. I was encouraged to speak in tongues and I did. Before that day in May 2012, I could not call God Father; but ever since that day, I can call God Father.
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,931
428
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#49
No, I want to hear the logical reason behind the fact that when Jesus comes, the tongues will cease.

Not the reason for this theological view. But the factual reason for such ceasation.
You won't need it anymore. Language is an imperfect instrument to communicate what we are thinking Or feeling. We see in part and understand in part.when Jesus comes we will see and understand fully.

Also evangelizing wouldn't be needed anymore and that is the main function of the gift of tongues.
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,931
428
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#50
I agree with what you said, in the video he mentions someone heard what seemed to be hebrew in a meeting where people were speaking in tongues and he brought a friend who knew hebrew, and it turns out it was demonic since they were cursing God.
Yeah I finished listening to it and didn't hear anything I disagreed with. Thanks for sharing the video.
 
Dec 2, 2016
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#51
I do not agree with Pentecostalism, however the bible does say that God gave spiritual gifts to the church and the bible says that those gifts will not cease until the church is with Christ. It gets so irritating to see folks try to make the bible agree with what they have chosen to believe. Are you going to twist the arm of God until He changes His mind?
 
Dec 3, 2016
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#52
God also said "forbid not to speak in tongues" (1 Corinthians 14:39) which was given as a command by the Lord thru the Apostle Paul.
So, for all the scoffers claiming this is not for us today... yer skatin on thin ice with the Lord
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
1,537
28
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#53
God also said "forbid not to speak in tongues" (1 Corinthians 14:39) which was given as a command by the Lord thru the Apostle Paul.
So, for all the scoffers claiming this is not for us today... yer skatin on thin ice with the Lord
If it would be normal for us Christians then we had not these discussions :)
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
12,502
364
83
#54
According to the Word, no. I believe the gift of tongues is availed to some by God. Do not be upset if you do not grasp this truth. You probably have other gifts you are not yet aware of.......Praise God, and allow all to believe according to their gift(s)...
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
8,924
275
83
#55
You won't need it anymore. Language is an imperfect instrument to communicate what we are thinking Or feeling. We see in part and understand in part.when Jesus comes we will see and understand fully.

Also evangelizing wouldn't be needed anymore and that is the main function of the gift of tongues.
Proponents of the tongues say it is the angelic tongue, a spiritual one. So why should it cease? Also, why should prophecy cease when Christ comes?

One would expect it will be spread to everyone, not ceased.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,024
264
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#56
Proponents of the tongues say it is the angelic tongue, a spiritual one. So why should it cease? Also, why should prophecy cease when Christ comes?

One would expect it will be spread to everyone, not ceased.
Its both a natural language (of the earth), a lost dialect, or even possibly a language that isn't from man. If no one understands them, as scripture says, then it cannot possibly be a known language, or at the very least, in order for the scripture to stand true no one in the room has to know German when you're speaking fluent German so that you may interpret it for their edification.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
8,924
275
83
#57
Its both a natural language (of the earth), a lost dialect, or even possibly a language that isn't from man. If no one understands them, as scripture says, then it cannot possibly be a known language, or at the very least, in order for the scripture to stand true no one in the room has to know German when you're speaking fluent German so that you may interpret it for their edification.
Why would God give you a gift to speak in a lost dialect?

One would expect that God gives languages that are needed the most. For American missionaries in for example Mexico it would be Spanish.
Not some kind of a lost dialect of African tribe living 5000 years ago. And when we listen to the majority of so called "tongues" spoken in the church, they are pretty much very primitive languages without any syntax, so... sorry, it is not Greek.
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,931
428
83
#58
Proponents of the tongues say it is the angelic tongue, a spiritual one. So why should it cease? Also, why should prophecy cease when Christ comes?

One would expect it will be spread to everyone, not ceased.
God doesn't need an angelic tongue to see into our hearts.

When Jesus returns all prophecies will be fulfilled and we will be made perfect in body and mind with Him, When he gives us our New Resurrected bodies,
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
480
83
Philly, PA, USA
#59
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMkpn0iZonA

Really good video talking about the gift of tongues and how it is still a gift for today.
It's just to be treated differently than how most charismatic churches treat it, according to scripture: 1 Corinthians 14:27-28King James Version (KJV)

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Also tongues are a sign for unbelievers and should be used in evangelizing tribes and nations where you don't know the language of their language, but you have the gift of tongues, this is evident in acts where all sorts of people heard the disciples speaking in their own language, even though they were speaking in tongues.

Lastly, this preacher is reformed and so am I, I don't think gifts of the spirit and the reformed faith are incompatible as I've heard people say in the past.

All of the above is touched upon on the video, so I urge you to watch it.
Reformed here too, although I disagree with you that it has to be for unbelievers.

Mostly wanted to let you in on a bit of unexpected humor. In the US, if you say "Tim Conway," many of us are imagining a much-loved comedian, who was many things, but not a teacher or preacher. lol

In my walk, I've gone from thinking tongues proves baptism of the Holy Spirit/being born again, (which was very bad news for me, because I don't have that gift -- faked it at one time, but really don't have it), to the general concept most Christians have of tongues, (either the language of angels or to be interpreted), to no tongues, (I did study up on this from a reformed viewpoint long ago), and finally to what I believe today.

I was tossed about because there are so many viewpoints that seemed really good when I read them. (Admittedly, most of my research was done before YouTube existed.) But ultimately, I know this -- my husband speaks in that heavenly language and is Reformed. Not big in our circles to be that, but he can't help what gifts God gave him, and he's certainly not going to squelch them since they are God's gifts.

And he knew a missionary who taught other men of God how to pastor their churches in Africa, and that man, who did not believe tongues were for today, witnessed just that. A tongue of a visitor reaching the ears of a church member in his native language when the visitor didn't know that language. The participants were already born again, yet God gave a stranger a word of wisdom for that congregation in an ancient tribal language unknown by the speaker, but known by hearers.

I may be Doubting Thomas on needing proof, but God was kind enough to me to give me that proof.
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
480
83
Philly, PA, USA
#60
Maby you should ask believers from the time before the year 1900. For the most Pentecostals and Charismatics speaking in tongues is combined with the 2nd Baptist with the Holy Spirit. Before 1900 you won't find this 2nd baptism.
And you also can't prove anyone named John Smith lived in Oregon in the 1700's either, but it doesn't disprove that there was no John Smith living in Oregon at that time either.

There are no records of everything that ever happened. And, unless you have checked all the records of everything that has been recorded to find out no one ever talked about something before a certain year or no one ever spoke in tongues before that year, lack of evidence isn't evidence.