Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...

[Grandpa]

Oh, Oh, oh - Oh - I need to learn to keep my mouth shut - I know - why stir up old debates . . .

but I can't just let this one drift by . . . simply saying something is a fact doesn't make it one!

Showing a clear Scripture verse that says OSAS would make it a fact, but I haven't been shown one yet . . .

You have to have ears to hear first.

I will never leave you nor forsake you.

I give them eternal life and no one can take them from my hand.

 

[valiant]

That is at the core and the foundation of the false OSAS doctrine, the lie that ongoing unrepentant sin cannot effect your eternal security. That is why they go to great lengths to twist, pervert, and explain away scriptures and prophecy that speak of how many would in fact depart from the faith, and return to their old sinful ways and play the Harlot with the ways of the world.

To reject the Truth according to the words of God is to also reject Jesus Christ, the very Word of Truth and Life.

I challenge you to interpret these verses one by one. As you say, to reject the truth according to the word of God is to reject Jesus Christ and God the Father, the very word of truth and light,:

'All that the Father gives to Me will come to Me, and him who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from Heaven not to do my own will, but the will of Him Who sent
Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day,' (John 6.37-39)


But you do not believe (My Father's works) because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. My Father who gave them to Me is greater than all, and no one IS ABLE to pluck them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one (John 10.27-30).


All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being accounted as righteous by His grace FREELY through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith by His blood (Rom 3,23-25).


'Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, so that you come behind in no gift, waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,who will also confirm you unto the end, that you might be unreproveable in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.' (1 Corinth 1.6-8). (and this the corinthian church!)


'By grace you are saved, through faith, and that (gracious act) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of doings, lest any man should boast, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them' (Eph 2.8-10).


'Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ' (Phil 2.6).


'Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but now has been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour, Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel (2 Tim 1.9).


I am not ashamed, for I know Him Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that Day (2 Tim 1.12).


But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and His love towards man appeared, not by works done in righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Christ Jesus our Saviour, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3.4-7).


Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of promise the immutability of His Counsel, interposed with an oath, that by two immutable things in which it is impossible for God to lie we may have a strong encouragement who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us, which we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and entering into that within the veil, whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek (Heb 7.7-20).


Wherefore He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever lives to make intercession for them (Heb 7.25).


He has perfected for ever those who are being sanctified (Heb 10.14)

To reject these verses is to say God has misled us

 

[valiant]

Doctrinally you are confusing JUSTIFICATION with Salvation. JUSTIFICATION is when we COME TO A SAVING KNOWLEDGE by the truth of the new testament Way. The truth of the saving nature of the new testament teachings never changes, never goes away. But behaviors and mindsets can change and a person strays from the path, putting themselves in an even greater danger - that of double mindedness. Salvation is to who persevere to the end.

And whom God justified He also glorified. Being justified is a once for all done deal to one who at the time is still ungodly (Rom 4.5),

He is clothed in the righteousness of Christ.

 

[Chester]

I am not going to take this thread further off track -- It is about Hebrews 6:4-6 - If you want to give me verses to answer go to my earlier thread "Verse for Once saved always saved?" If you check through the thread you will find discussion on most of the verses given here.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So when you are repenting you should be turning from beholding your own work and sin, and turn to the work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Who perfects forever those who are being sanctified.

Is it double-minded? Only if someone can trick you into beholding your own sin. Then its time to repent and stop being double-minded and behold the work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

If you don't behold your own sin, then you are not cleansed of it. You are simply ignoring it. Acknowledging it in the faith of GOD's grace is what cleanses.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh, Oh, oh - Oh - I need to learn to keep my mouth shut - I know - why stir up old debates . . .

but I can't just let this one drift by . . . simply saying something is a fact doesn't make it one!

Showing a clear Scripture verse that says OSAS would make it a fact, but I haven't been shown one yet . . .

Read John 6. The last part of the chapter is about people who will never hunger never thirst, Live forever, Never die, Has eternal life, and be risen on the last day.

Thats OSAS/eternal life/eternal security. whatever you want to call it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you don't behold your own sin, then you are not cleansed of it. You are simply ignoring it. Acknowledging it in the faith of GOD's grace is what cleanses.

His children KNOW their own sin.

why? We are chastened by God.

Try it sometime, you may like it (even though it hurts)

 

[valiant]

I am not going to take this thread further off track -- It is about Hebrews 6:4-6 - If you want to give me verses to answer go to my earlier thread "Verse for Once saved always saved?" If you check through the thread you will find discussion on most of the verses given here.

These verse have NEVER been answered or discussed sensibly. Why don't you discuss them AND ANSWER THEM? If you don't you are a humbug,.

'All that the Father gives to Me will come to Me, and him who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from Heaven not to do my own will, but the will of Him Who sent
Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day,' (John 6.37-39)


But you do not believe (My Father's works) because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. My Father who gave them to Me is greater than all, and no one IS ABLE to pluck them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one (John 10.27-30).


All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being accounted as righteous by His grace FREELY through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith by His blood (Rom 3,23-25).


'Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, so that you come behind in no gift, waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,who will also confirm you unto the end, that you might be unreproveable in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.' (1 Corinth 1.6-8). (and this the corinthian church!)


'By grace you are saved, through faith, and that (gracious act) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of doings, lest any man should boast, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them' (Eph 2.8-10).


'Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ' (Phil 2.6).


'Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but now has been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour, Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel (2 Tim 1.9).


I am not ashamed, for I know Him Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that Day (2 Tim 1.12).


But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and His love towards man appeared, not by works done in righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Christ Jesus our Saviour, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3.4-7).


Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of promise the immutability of His Counsel, interposed with an oath, that by two immutable things in which it is impossible for God to lie we may have a strong encouragement who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us, which we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and entering into that within the veil, whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek (Heb 7.7-20).


Wherefore He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever lives to make intercession for them (Heb 7.25).


He has perfected for ever those who are being sanctified (Heb 10.14)

 

[Grandpa]

If you don't behold your own sin, then you are not cleansed of it. You are simply ignoring it. Acknowledging it in the faith of GOD's grace is what cleanses.

If you are beholding your own sin it is all you will ever do.

Did you get every speck? Better keep checking. What if you miss a spot?

Or you can have faith that it is the Lord Jesus Christ who does the cleansing. And you can ask.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I challenge you to interpret these verses one by one. As you say, to reject the truth according to the word of God is to reject Jesus Christ and God the Father, the very word of truth and light,:

'All that the Father gives to Me will come to Me, and him who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from Heaven not to do my own will, but the will of Him Who sent
Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day,' (John 6.37-39)


But you do not believe (My Father's works) because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. My Father who gave them to Me is greater than all, and no one IS ABLE to pluck them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one (John 10.27-30).


All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being accounted as righteous by His grace FREELY through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith by His blood (Rom 3,23-25).


'Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, so that you come behind in no gift, waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,who will also confirm you unto the end, that you might be unreproveable in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.' (1 Corinth 1.6-8). (and this the corinthian church!)


'By grace you are saved, through faith, and that (gracious act) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of doings, lest any man should boast, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them' (Eph 2.8-10).


'Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ' (Phil 2.6).


'Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but now has been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour, Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel (2 Tim 1.9).


I am not ashamed, for I know Him Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that Day (2 Tim 1.12).


But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and His love towards man appeared, not by works done in righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Christ Jesus our Saviour, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3.4-7).


Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of promise the immutability of His Counsel, interposed with an oath, that by two immutable things in which it is impossible for God to lie we may have a strong encouragement who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us, which we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and entering into that within the veil, whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek (Heb 7.7-20).


Wherefore He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever lives to make intercession for them (Heb 7.25).


He has perfected for ever those who are being sanctified (Heb 10.14)

To reject these verses is to say God has misled us

I believe in every word of God, just not in the false doctrines of carnally minded men, like OSAS doctrine which teaches ongoing unrepentant sin will not effect your eternal security. This thread here tears own that false doctrine by Jesus' own words about how a servant of sin abides not in the house forever---->>>>http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/130066-servant-sin-abides-not-house-forever.html

 

[valiant]

If you don't behold your own sin, then you are not cleansed of it. You are simply ignoring it. Acknowledging it in the faith of GOD's grace is what cleanses.

God's grace acts to cleanse once and for all. and it cleanses for ever. It is without cost (to us) or merit. It is God acting independently of us, We just receive.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe in every word of God, just not in the false doctrines of carnally minded men, like OSAS doctrine which teaches ongoing unrepentant sin will not effect your eternal security.

Sorry, But OSAS teachers do not teach this.

If you want to believe they do. Thats on you.. But how you can be told this over and over and still deny it, Is all on you..

 

[valiant]

I believe in every word of God, just not in the false doctrines of carnally minded men, like OSAS doctrine which teaches ongoing unrepentant sin will not effect your eternal security. This thread here tears own that false doctrine by Jesus' own words about how a servant of sin abides not in the house forever---->>>>http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/130066-servant-sin-abides-not-house-forever.html

I notice you don't answer the scripture truth on this matter. Give your answers to the verses. You don't because you cant

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I notice you don't answer the scripture truth on this matter. Give your answers to the verses.

Here's the answer.....many are called but few are chosen.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If you are beholding your own sin it is all you will ever do.

Did you get every speck? Better keep checking. What if you miss a spot?

Or you can have faith that it is the Lord Jesus Christ who does the cleansing. And you can ask.

No I don't have to keep looking at my sins because they get cleansed. That's the whole point. If I miss a spot, GOD will show me, so I don"t have to live in fear. That's called faith.

 

[garee]

Let me talk about washing up after a meal. Each plate, knife, fork, spoon, glass, needs to be cleaned.
Each time it is washed it is cleansed. The one washing cleanses away all dirt.

And the washing of Christ according to the pouring of Spirit on flesh is a "continuing washing and renewing". If the wage of sin is eternal the washing follows , Christ does not give us partial grace and say go to purgatory. Jesus gave His all all to Him we we did owe

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

But it does not purify the heart so it cannot defile the person again. It does not remove the possibility
of sin, or the habits that lead to sinful behaviour.

You are speaking of ceremonial laws.They were reformed and the government was restored to another time period before the Leviticus type of government .This was during the first century reformation according with that parable found in Hebrew 9.

The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.Heb 9:8

 

[UnderGrace]

I believe in every word of God, just not in the false doctrines of carnally minded men, like OSAS doctrine which teaches ongoing unrepentant sin will not effect your eternal security. This thread here tears own that false doctrine by Jesus' own words about how a servant of sin abides not in the house forever---->>>>http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/130066-servant-sin-abides-not-house-forever.html

Let’s break this down. Jesus said those who commit sin are a servant of sin, and a servant abides not in the house forever. That verse right there crushes this false notion that ongoing sin does not compromise eternal security. The truth is right there in front of your face. A SERVANT OF SIN ABIDES NOT IN THE HOUSE FOREVER!

You are absolutely correct 100% correct..... because a "servant of sin" someone who is still enslaved to sin has not been born again! Jesus once again pointing to the cross letting us know that in advance (as in before he went to the cross) we will be freed from the bondage of sin and He will give us His Eternal Spirit which will be sealed in us.

Romans6:18

17But thanks be to God that, though you once were slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were committed. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. 19I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to escalating wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness.…

 

[valiant]

Here's the answer.....many are called but few are chosen.

that is no answer. The ones I am speaking about ARE the chosen. And the verses you dodge speaks of THEM. So you have just confirmed your total ignorance. You CAN'T answer the verses. You dodge .

 

[Grace777x70]

I believe in every word of God, just not in the false doctrines of carnally minded men, like OSAS doctrine which teaches ongoing unrepentant sin will not effect your eternal security. This thread here tears own that false doctrine by Jesus' own words about how a servant of sin abides not in the house forever---->>>>http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/130066-servant-sin-abides-not-house-forever.html

The son does remain forever in the house.


John 8:35-36 (NASB)
[SUP]35 [/SUP] "The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.

[SUP]36 [/SUP] "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

Once we are in Christ - we become sons/daughters of God.

Galatians 3:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 4:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

[SUP]7 [/SUP] Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.


1 John 3:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

I encourage us to start to believe in the gospel of the grace of Christ. It is "good news".

If we see ourselves as children of God we will walk as children of our Father and our true nature in our new creation will transform our minds to reflect that nature outwardly in our behavior powered by the Spirit of God inside of us.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

You are absolutely correct 100% correct..... because a "servant of sin" someone who is still enslaved to sin has not been born again! Jesus once again pointing to the cross letting us know that in advance (as in before he went to the cross) we will be freed from the bondage of sin and He will give us His Eternal Spirit which will be sealed in us.

Romans6:18

17But thanks be to God that, though you once were slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were committed. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. 19I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to escalating wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness.…

That's right, but there are those who confess they sin every day but yet at the same time they say they are born again of God's Spirit. Hopefully you can see the contradiction in what they say, and what the words of Jesus say is true.