Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...

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1LonelyKnight

Guest
Amen,

This is why OSAS/Eternal security are facts, not fiction, Because Gods true children DO do this, Because they have true faiht in their father.

The ones who do not do this, Are trusting self. or have no faith at all.. But love there sin.
Now that sounds like Gnosticism.

I post "come to a saving knowledge" rather than "saved" or "get saved" because JUSTIFICATION means you found the right path and realize it. It does not mean one will stay on the path - indeed many reject it, for it calls for a putting off of the old path of worldly pursuits. Staying on the path is SANCTIFICATION. It does not imply others and other things will not cross your new found path for in fact they will. The test then comes as to whether being on the path enables one to call others to this same journey, or whether some being weak in faith will be enticed off the path. It's not a work, but rather a walk. No "name-it, claim-it" , no OSAS at all, but a perseverance on the narrow path of right living, guided by the spiritual lamp that is the Word of God who was made flesh - Jesus, The Way.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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That's right, but there are those who confess they sin every day but yet at the same time they say they are born again of God's Spirit. Hopefully you can see the contradiction in what they say, and what the words of Jesus say is true.

You do realize this truth below I hope....selah


We often in our modern evangelical world look at sin as only the "biggie" sins and if we don't do them ( like adultery, stealing..etc ) - then we can live sin free.

The reality is that malice and slander and hypocrisy, and envy...etc - are just as much sin as living the homosexual lifestyle.

It's interesting that some that say others are lawless ( even though they don't know their life at all ) and say to walk in purity and righteousness are the very same ones that think it's perfectly natural and ok to slander others and exhibit malice towards them and mock them.

These are just like the ones living the so-called Christian homosexual lifestyle only they don't see themselves as the same as this group - but in reality - in God's eyes...they are doing the exact same thing.

This is not living a life that is sinless.

 
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Jan 7, 2015
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You do realize this truth below I hope....selah


We often in our modern evangelical world look at sin as only the "biggie" sins and if we don't do them ( like adultery, stealing..etc ) - then we can live sin free.

The reality is that malice and slander and hypocrisy, and envy...etc - are just as much sin as living the homosexual lifestyle.

It's interesting that some that say others are lawless ( even though they don't know their life at all ) and say to walk in purity and righteousness are the very same ones that think it's perfectly natural and ok to slander others and exhibit malice towards them.

These are just like the ones living the so-called Christian homosexual lifestyle only they don't see themselves as the same as this group - but in reality - in God's eyes...they are doing the exact same thing.

This is not living a life that is sinless.

Well, I'll be on guard not to bear false witness and slander anyone falsely, thanks. :)
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Well, I'll be on guard not to bear false witness and slander anyone falsely, thanks. :)
Well spoken! Let's agree that all of us will do this from now on...it's ok to agree to disagree with others....Bless you!....:)
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Why don’t we slowly search the first two verses seeing the rest of it relies on understanding what is being said in those first two verses. . And it has to do with leaving the principles of Christ which points those who crucify Christ again and again to public shame. And not the other group in Hebrew 4 the Christians who receive the better thing s that accompany salvation (OSAS) Real eternal redemption.

What does it mean ; "and of faith towards God." Does it mean stop believing God? . How does that tie into dead works as a foundation. Is it what they were trusting in and why The Holy Spirit has given us this portion of scripture so that we do not fol ow the same error ?

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.Heb 6:1
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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That's right, but there are those who confess they sin every day but yet at the same time they say they are born again of God's Spirit. Hopefully you can see the contradiction in what they say, and what the words of Jesus say is true.
so you love the lord your God with heart, soul, mind and strength all day everyday? in that you fall short of that you are sinning. That is why the one who lives close to God KNOWS he sins everyday.
 
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1LonelyKnight

Guest
And whom God justified He also glorified. Being justified is a once for all done deal to one who at the time is still ungodly (Rom 4.5),

He is clothed in the righteousness of Christ.
Start another thread on JUSTIFICATION to allow for focus and depth. For now though with some context, Paul continues in his same letter to the people of Rome:

Romans 10:10

For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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so you love the lord your God with heart, soul, mind and strength all day everyday? in that you fall short of that you are sinning. That is why the one who lives close to God KNOWS he sins everyday.
Why should I be judged of another mans conscience? :)
 
Sep 4, 2012
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so you love the lord your God with heart, soul, mind and strength all day everyday? in that you fall short of that you are sinning. That is why the one who lives close to God KNOWS he sins everyday.
One who lives close to GOD knows every day that he is unrighteous and does not sin.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
That's right, but there are those who confess they sin every day but yet at the same time they say they are born again of God's Spirit. Hopefully you can see the contradiction in what they say, and what the words of Jesus say is true.
There is no contradiction in what they say, show me the measuring stick of which sin causes me to loose my salvation from scripture that is directed towards the born again believer, I want an exact number of sins, at least if you used the free will argument I may have had to work a little harder.

If you deny the assurance of salvation for born again believers against all sins, past present and future then you have basically put us back to a place where sin is stronger than the grace of God and the work of the Cross, can you not see that?
Come let us reason together....see that this is not reasonable!

But then who am I to seek to persuade you of what Jesus has accomplished, when all these others are striving with you much more than me.

I will pray, indeed I will pray because you are missing the best of what He has to offer.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Why don’t we slowly search the first two verses seeing the rest of it relies on understanding what is being said in those first two verses. . And it has to do with leaving the principles of Christ which points those who crucify Christ again and again to public shame. And not the other group in Hebrew 4 the Christians who receive the better thing s that accompany salvation (OSAS) Real eternal redemption.

What does it mean ; "and of faith towards God." Does it mean stop believing God? . How does that tie into dead works as a foundation. Is it what they were trusting in and why The Holy Spirit has given us this portion of scripture so that we do not fol ow the same error ?

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.Heb 6:1
I think that the author of Hebrews was writing to the Jewish mindset and in Heb 6:1 - he is telling them to leave the Jewish elementary teachings about the Messiah ( Christ ) because all of these were ceremonial aspects of the Jewish religion ( like washings, laying on of hands, ..etc. )

The "therefore" in Heb 6:1 is referring to the truths that were spoken before that in chapter 5:11-14. The baby Christians are the ones not understanding the "word of righteousness". This is Christ's righteousness that is imputed/imparted unto us because we are in Him.

The having their senses trained to discern good and evil is knowing when we are trying to establish our own righteousness ( evil ) instead of relying completely on Christ's righteousness alone ( good ).
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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I post "come to a saving knowledge" rather than "saved" or "get saved" because JUSTIFICATION means you found the right path and realize it. It does not mean one will stay on the path
'Those whom He justified, them he also He glorified.' It sounds to me that he sees justification as for ever. Justification does not mean you have found the right path. GOD justifies us, and he does it while we are still ungodly (Rom 4.5).

Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect?. IT IS GOD who justifies,


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indeed many reject it, for it calls for a putting off of the old path of worldly pursuits.
actually it does not. It deal with the problem of our lack of righteousness, by God's righteousness being put to our account.

Staying on the path is SANCTIFICATION
.

It is GOD who sanctifies, as He wills. we do not have to 'stay on on the path of sanctification'. God makes us sanctified,
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
If you don't behold your own sin, then you are not cleansed of it. You are simply ignoring it. Acknowledging it in the faith of GOD's grace is what cleanses.
Ummmm, no. The blood of Jesus shed on the cross is what cleanses us of our sins.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Originally Posted by valiant
so you love the lord your God with heart, soul, mind and strength all day everyday? in that you fall short of that you are sinning. That is why the one who lives close to God KNOWS he sins everyday.
One who lives close to GOD knows every day that he is unrighteous and does not sin.
So you love God with all your heart and soul and mind and strength all day and every day? LOL you have just disqualified yourself.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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So you love God with all your heart and soul and mind and strength all day and every day? LOL you have just disqualified yourself.
He that walks in the light has fellowship with GOD, and the blood of Jesus his son cleanses him from all sin.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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I challenge you to interpret these verses one by one. As you say, to reject the truth according to the word of God is to reject Jesus Christ and God the Father, the very word of truth and light,:

'All that the Father gives to Me will come to Me, and him who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from Heaven not to do my own will, but the will of Him Who sent
Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day,' (John 6.37-39)


But you do not believe (My Father's works) because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. My Father who gave them to Me is greater than all, and no one IS ABLE to pluck them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one (John 10.27-30).


All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being accounted as righteous by His grace FREELY through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith by His blood (Rom 3,23-25).


'Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, so that you come behind in no gift, waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,who will also confirm you unto the end, that you might be unreproveable in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.' (1 Corinth 1.6-8). (and this the corinthian church!)


'By grace you are saved, through faith, and that (gracious act) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of doings, lest any man should boast, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them' (Eph 2.8-10).


'Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ' (Phil 2.6).


'Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but now has been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour, Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel (2 Tim 1.9).


I am not ashamed, for I know Him Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that Day (2 Tim 1.12).


But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and His love towards man appeared, not by works done in righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Christ Jesus our Saviour, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3.4-7).


Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of promise the immutability of His Counsel, interposed with an oath, that by two immutable things in which it is impossible for God to lie we may have a strong encouragement who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us, which we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and entering into that within the veil, whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek (Heb 7.7-20).


Wherefore He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever lives to make intercession for them (Heb 7.25).


He has perfected for ever those who are being sanctified (Heb 10.14)

To reject these verses is to say God has misled us
You say - "I challenge you to interpret these verses one by one". Why should I interpret them? You will just interpret them differently than I do, and argue that I am wrong and you are right!

All of the verses you gave can be interpreted to mean OSAS, but none of them state it simply and straightforward as such.

Example: It is clear that we are saved "by grace through faith" because Ephesians 2:8 says so.

Is there a verse that says, "Once a person is saved it is impossible for him to ever be lost again"? To make any of the verses above mean OSAS you have to explain the meaning - they don't outrightly say it! Or am I missing something?

I agree 100% with everything you have in bold print above.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Now that sounds like Gnosticism.

I post "come to a saving knowledge" rather than "saved" or "get saved" because JUSTIFICATION means you found the right path and realize it. It does not mean one will stay on the path -

gnostic means knowledge, no on is saved, justified or sanctified by knowledge, to say on eis, Would be a gnostic thought..

Scripture says we are justified by faith. Not by knowledge.. And it means true faith, not mere belief. As James said, Even demons believe, yet tremble (because they know their fate)


Justified means declared innocent, Or Declared righteous (Innocent of a crime) it does not mean you found the right path, Not sure where you got that from.


indeed many reject it, for it calls for a putting off of the old path of worldly pursuits. Staying on the path is SANCTIFICATION. It does not imply others and other things will not cross your new found path for in fact they will. The test then comes as to whether being on the path enables one to call others to this same journey, or whether some being weak in faith will be enticed off the path. It's not a work, but rather a walk.
To be sanctified means one is being set apart. Thats it nothing more nothing less.. It is the work of God. we are set apart.

A walk is a work A work is done to earn a wage, Or to earn something,, If we walk for salvation, then we earn salvation, and justification, and it is not a gift, but a prize or wage.


No "name-it, claim-it" , no OSAS at all, but a perseverance on the narrow path of right living, guided by the spiritual lamp that is the Word of God who was made flesh - Jesus, The Way.
Thats a works based gospel my friend, Not faith based or grace based.

If you want to "perform" your way to heaven, and be good enough to get saved, I recommend you follow the law. Because that is your only hope. and I pray it does it job as a schoolmaster and leads you to christ.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Believers are in the light 24/7. Walking means a sphere of where one lives and moves about....where they tread with their feet as they go about life. In the light is a "position" that we are in because we are in Christ.

Believers are definitely in the light. The scriptures are clear on this. We do not go in and out of being in the light to being in darkness because one sins. We are giving in to the flesh to fulfill "its" desires when one sins. Romans 6:13

The same as we don't go from being a sheep when we sin to being a goat...and then when we don't do that particular sin again ( for however long that would be? ) - we go back to being a sheep again.

Ephesians 5:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light ( we should be walking out who we are in the light..but it's through Him we do that. He bears His fruit on us - the branches )

Colossians 1:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light.

1 Thessalonians 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Start another thread on JUSTIFICATION to allow for focus and depth. For now though with some context, Paul continues in his same letter to the people of Rome:

Romans 10:10

For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Romans 5:1
herefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Galatians 2:16
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Galatians 3:24
Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.