Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...

[LaurenTM]

How come you always show false and erroneous teachers.
You false grace teachers, are just like Calvinism, Completely twisting Heb 6.

oh dear

you are mistaken in this; truly you are

you have been here all of 1.5 months and yet you speak the lingo of a certain tribe that inhabits the forests of this chat jungle

I regret to inform you, that it is yourself that has fallen for the false accusations by the anti-grace squad who typify their approach with denial of what is actually said and pad the slanderous account against them with so many twists and turns that one is not sure if you have just read a post or played a game of snakes and ladders with only one of the those being represented

please note that your post is just an accusation and not part of the actual conversation

 

[valiant]

Start another thread on JUSTIFICATION to allow for focus and depth. For now though with some context, Paul continues in his same letter to the people of Rome:

Romans 10:10

For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

They are justified BY HIS GRACE AS a Gift through the redemption which in Christ Jesus, Whom God has set forwards as a PROPITIATION by His blood through faith. It is a gift freely given. It cannot be taken away

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

There is no contradiction in what they say, show me the measuring stick of which sin causes me to loose my salvation from scripture that is directed towards the born again believer, I want an exact number of sins, at least if you used the free will argument I may have had to work a little harder.

If you deny the assurance of salvation for born again believers against all sins, past present and future then you have basically put us back to a place where sin is stronger than the grace of God and the work of the Cross, can you not see that?
Come let us reason together....see that this is not reasonable!

But then who am I to seek to persuade you of what Jesus has accomplished, when all these others are striving with you much more than me.

I will pray, indeed I will pray because you are missing the best of what He has to offer.

A person who is truly born again will not walk after the lusts of the flesh= live in ongoing sin. Those who think they are born again and think they are walking in the Spirit, yet still sin daily are only fooling themselves about inheriting the kingdom of God. All sin is unrighteousness, and the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Galatians 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[valiant]

A person who is truly born again will not walk after the lusts of the flesh= live in ongoing sin. Those who think they are born again and think they are walking in the Spirit, yet still sin daily are only fooling themselves about inheriting the kingdom of God. All sin is unrighteousness, and the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

.

but what about when the righteous sometimes do such things? for all who are truly justified by faith are the righteous whatever you try to say about them. there is a difference between the unrighteous who do not care and the righteous who may sometimes do them but face God's chastening.

 

[Grace777x70]

Inheriting the kingdom of God is not meaning "to go to heaven" in these scriptures. It means to live the quality of life that is in the kingdom now on this earth. The kingdom of God is within us now. If we live by the flesh we will not receive the benefits that are ours in Christ as sin will distort our view of God, ourselves and others. We need to view Gal 5 in context with the fruit of the Spirit that brings life to us here on this earth.

In Gal 5 - "strife" is one in the list too as well as "things like these". What are those things? If someone doesn't know exactly "what these things like these are" they would go to hell with the interpretation that the list in Gal. 5:19-21 means not going to heaven.

1 Cor 6:9 always needs to be used in context too. First of all - the Christian is called righteous - not unrighteous. Paul here "in context" is showing the behavior of unbelievers.

1 Corinthians 6:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified ( declared righteous ) in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

The new creation in Christ has been created in righteousness and holiness.

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness ( believer ) with unrighteousness ( unbeliever)? and what communion hath light with darkness?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

but what about when the righteous sometimes do such things? for all who are truly justified by faith are the righteous whatever you try to say about them. there is a difference between the unrighteous who do not care and the righteous who may sometimes do them but face God's chastening.

How much unrighteousness must the so called righteous perform before they are also considered "unrighteous?" And if they do not turn back from their unrighteousness but abide in unrepentant ongoing sin are they still considered "righteous". Hardly.

Ezekiel 18:24
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

 

[Grace777x70]

How much unrighteousness must the so called righteous perform before they are also considered "unrighteous?" And if they do not turn back from their unrighteousness but abide in unrepentant ongoing sin are they still considered "righteous". Hardly.

Ezekiel 18:24
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Quote:

Ezekiel 18:24 "But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness".

There is the difference. The individual person trying to create and maintain their own righteousness will fall. We have Christ's righteousness as a Chrsitian so we are not trying to do "our own righteousness". We have a better covenant in the New Covenant then the Old Covenant built upon the blood of Jesus and His finished work which are better promises.

Christ's finished work is how we live now. The just ( righteous in Christ ) shall live by faith.

Romans 10:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

We either try to live by "our" righteousness or by faith in what Christ has already done for us. Personally I choose Him.

I say preach the grace of Christ and His grace will teach us how to live godly in this present world.

 

[UnderGrace]

A person who is truly born again will not walk after the lusts of the flesh= live in ongoing sin. Those who think they are born again and think they are walking in the Spirit, yet still sin daily are only fooling themselves about inheriting the kingdom of God. All sin is unrighteousness, and the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Galatians 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Big picture is the key always when reading scripture.

Keep reading….because Paul then says…..

1 Corinthians 6:11

"And such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God."


See that …..he was telling them that is what they used to do. He is not making a declaration against the assurance of salvation that believers have.

Galatians 5:21

Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


When Paul says, "they which do practice such things," he is referring to those apart from Christ.

He is distinguishing the believers of the church with those who practice these things as a way of life.

This is the key right here...

Paul is telling them that if you look at the track record of the flesh, apart from the Spirit of God, it is a track record of failure in the arena of righteousness.

Then why would you take that same flesh and use that as a means to make yourself righteous? He says it will never work. The flesh has a long track record of failure.

Therefore ...
If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

When Paul says, "they which do practice such things," he is referring to those apart from Christ.

That's right, those who are living in sin are not truly alive "in Christ". You know a tree by it's fruit= righteousness unto Life, or sin unto death.

 

[1LonelyKnight]

They are justified BY HIS GRACE AS a Gift through the redemption which in Christ Jesus, Whom God has set forwards as a PROPITIATION by His blood through faith. It is a gift freely given. It cannot be taken away

The JUSTIFICATION of the right path taught by Jesus will never go away, this is true. The teachings are so true, so compelling (there is no other Way). By the grace of Jesus He laid down his life to validate the teachings - not my will but thine be done. The behaviors called us to and warned us from are of natural law (Logos). Paul contrasts the works of the flesh with the fruit of the spirit in Galations 5:19 et. seq. in affirmation. One will not see the kingdom of God, the other is above the law. There were certain men crept in unawares who held the grace of God to be lasciviousness (Jude). The free gift paid for in blood, now over and over beginning with Jesus is the new testament teaching of The Way.

I fear too much British Freemasonry and Kabbalism in religions - starting with the queen and her cult.u.r.E. Open demands for and knighthood of the priests of Baal.

 

[PeterJens]

Washing

A spiritual experience is not to be filled once, perfect done deal, but to be continually
filled and washed. It is like the process of obedience and washing changes, cleanses
and transforms us. It is always a walk, for eternity, where change is the way, nothing
ever stays still, because it is always an infinite variation of experience and aspect.

The problem with HG is they want to arrive at a destination that is singular and finished,
which is the definition of death not life. Life is about a continual arrival and moving on.

When in life has the arrival been only a goal achieved before the next goal is set.
I think this shows up there superficial understanding of things of God, and where they
want certainty where there is none, and change where there should just be purity and
righteousness.

 

[FreeNChrist]

That's right, those who are living in sin are not truly alive "in Christ". You know a tree by it's fruit= righteousness unto Life, or sin unto death.

What is "living" in sin ?

 

[UnderGrace]

That's right, those who are living in sin are not truly alive "in Christ". You know a tree by it's fruit= righteousness unto Life, or sin unto death.

I think not.....you missed the whole point, but then again I am not surprised.

You read the bible in the spirit of condemnation I read it in the SPIRIT of LIFE.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Let me talk about washing up after a meal. Each plate, knife, fork, spoon, glass, needs to be cleaned.
Each time it is washed it is cleansed. The one washing cleanses away all dirt.

But it does not purify the heart so it cannot defile the person again. It does not remove the possibility
of sin, or the habits that lead to sinful behaviour.

If a child of God sins, the remedy is to go to Father, confess the sin, and Father is faithful and just to forgive us our sins (1 John 1:9).

The child of God does not get born again a second, third, fourth, (etc.) time. That is the point of Heb 6:6. A child of God is born again one time.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Salvation is very much a meal.

Then Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life in yourselves! The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood resides in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, [so] also the one who eats me—that one will live because of me. John 6:53-57​

And it's not something that you eat once and are then good to go. It has to be eaten every day. Yesterday's manna won't work today.

Not sure this applies to salvation. I do agree that we are not to rely on what happened yesterday or what we did yesterday in order to get us through today. 2 Corinthians 4:16 tells us though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

Reminds me of God feeding the children of Israel with manna on a daily basis. God always gave them exactly what was needed for that day. He does the same for us --- only our "filling" is an inward filling, whereas the manna filled the outward (physical body) of the Israelites. In our day and time, God fills us inwardly day by day and we have exactly what we need to get through the afflictions of each day (For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal --- 2 Corinthians 4:17-18).

 

[reneweddaybyday]

A spiritual experience is not to be filled once, perfect done deal, but to be continually
filled and washed. It is like the process of obedience and washing changes, cleanses
and transforms us. It is always a walk, for eternity, where change is the way, nothing
ever stays still, because it is always an infinite variation of experience and aspect.

The problem with HG is they want to arrive at a destination that is singular and finished,
which is the definition of death not life. Life is about a continual arrival and moving on.

When in life has the arrival been only a goal achieved before the next goal is set.
I think this shows up there superficial understanding of things of God, and where they
want certainty where there is none, and change where there should just be purity and
righteousness.

A child of God is born again only one time. After that he/she is a "babe in Christ". There is a maturation process that takes place within us. Some try to run and do not submit to God's chastening. They are still children of God but they remain immature in this lifetime.

Just because a believer is immature, that does not mean they are not a child of God. 1 Cor 13:11-12 tells us When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

In this lifetime, we will always be as a child we will always understand as a child. There is a time coming when we shall see face to face and we will know even as also [we are] known.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

What is "living" in sin ?

Living after the flesh.....


Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 

[Grace777x70]

Living after the flesh.....


Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

So if someone goes out and gets angry ( which is of the flesh ) while driving and speeds off and then gets hit by a car and dies. In your religion does this man go to hell because he lived after the flesh?

No, of course not..that scripture in Romans 8:13 is talking about living here on this earth and experiencing the kingdom of God now as the kingdom of God is within us. Let's walk by the Spirit so that we don't fulfill the flesh and do "it's' lusts and have Christ's abundant life here now.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Living after the flesh.....


Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Once again, contrasting believers with the lost.....

"[FONT=&quot]You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ,[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] they do not belong to Christ." Rom 8:9[/FONT]

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

You read the bible in the spirit of condemnation I read it in the SPIRIT of LIFE.

I've found that those who have been misled by many false teachers who speak to them comfortably, they like to hear only the many blessings they can receive, but refuse to take heed and hear all the warnings in God's words. Believing that you can sin and not die is the same lie that was heard from the murderer in the very beginning. This same lie is being preached by many deceivers today as well.

Believing in all the lies of false teachers has no power to save, but believing in the Truth, which is the Word of Life does.

Proverbs 18:21
Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.