How do you get around this??

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preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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How about, there's no rapture at all.
Nobody is flying out of this earth. The elect are taken out of this earth through painful death to be guided out of evil; God has said so (Isa 57:1-5/ Psalm 116:15/ Rev 14:14-20).

Can we just say, it has been a misunderstanding to begin with.
Better yet...can we just say that you have a different Bible or you haven't read one....yet!
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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Scripture is infallible.

Your ability to understand them is not.

Loose the pride and arrogance.
If you are going to maintain a bazaar interpretation of the Bible then show where the Bible says...... there will be no rapture...ok?

Additionally, please explain how the born again get from this earthly existence to the side with ...judgement and eternal salvation...? Show scriptures...please.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
3,676
650
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If you are going to maintain a bazaar interpretation of the Bible then show where the Bible says...... there will be no rapture...ok?

Additionally, please explain how the born again get from this earthly existence to the side with ...judgement and eternal salvation...? Show scriptures...please.
Isa 26:
19But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.
20Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut the doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until his wrath has passed by.

21See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;
the earth will conceal its slain no longer.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
947
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So am I to understand that God will punish the wicked along with the righteous? I mean post tribers believe that.
Am I also to believe that we are to endure 3and one half yrs of persecution from all sides untill his return? Mid tribers believe that.
So the wrath of God that was poured out on Jesus for our sakes was and is a prelude for what we must endure in the last days?
So the holiness of Christ and Christ alone is now non exclusive since the saints also endured the wrath of God and lived to tell in the last days?
You stumble on Truth an can hardly believe your stumbling on Truth, Paul, "Fulfilling what is left behind of the sufferings of Christ." "If we suffer with Him we shall rule with Him." Yes Saints suffered with Him, more in our time than we are able to count, in China and Rusha alone. Something you should consider, that may change your view, "Nothing shall by any means harm you if you believe." This does not make sence, until you include dying will not harm us, if we believe (follow Jesus in His suffering amd death). God will not let us bear more than we can handle. The more mature we are, the more we rely on His Grace. Why some are afraid to grow up? Teresa of Avilla told the Lord: If this is how you treat your friends, its no wondwr you have so fiew. As we follow Jesus in His death we enter Resurrection that can't be obtained any other way. What seems to end our life causes us to enter into Life in God. There is no Saint who has not tasted suffering with Christ. Grace is the influence of God that is sufiscient: to kill our sin nature (comonlly knowm as egotist: the fruit of thee mind of the flesh, the fruit of the tree of knowlege of good and evil), to carry us to the Resurection. Ebery one suffers wether in fear and unnelief or with Christ. "Perfect Love delivers us from all fear. I have experienced reeiving this comfort and know it cant be attained by our works: I have not been able to live in that comfort. We can only make room to receivw it, In the fear of God: in admiration worship.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,623
769
113
If you are going to maintain a bazaar interpretation of the Bible then show where the Bible says...... there will be no rapture...ok?

Additionally, please explain how the born again get from this earthly existence to the side with ...judgement and eternal salvation...? Show scriptures...please.
It's not your theology I disagree with, it's your insistence that you can't possibly be wrong in it's interpretation. There's only one human I know of who was 100% right, and you ain't Him.

Pre, mid, post all have solid scriptural support. Thus you may favor one but not dismiss the others. We all know the same God, we all serve the same Savior, we all seek the same Spirit, we all read the same Word. There's a reason we all come to different conclusions. And that's because NONE of us is smart enough to know it all.

I'm not saying change your beliefs. I'm saying don't lose sight of the fact that you are always human, and thus always fallible. Even in this.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,623
769
113
Admitting that you could be wrong, is not an admission that you are wrong.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,672
230
63
Isa 26:
19But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.
20Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut the doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until his wrath has passed by.

21See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;
the earth will conceal its slain no longer.
That, my friend refers to the Rapture......being taken up....just another way to say it;....those dead in Christ shall rise up and be met in the air by those living in Christ and together they shall.....
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,737
2,583
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Your post is sad and how will i ever convince you that you are wrong?
There's absolutely nothing sad about what is called "The Blessed Hope" in Scripture. Looks like you need to review your ideas bu carefully reading what is written.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,737
2,583
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John 17:14I have given them Your word and the world has hated them; for they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one.
This is an excellent example how a verse can be taken out of context and misapplied (and thus a doctrine perverted).

1. Christ was about to be crucified, and within 40 days of that He would depart from earth to Heaven.

2. It was critical that the apostles remain on earth in order to fulfill the Great Commission. The day of Pentecost would be 50 days after the crucifixion.

3. There would be a multitude of Christians saved as a result of the preaching and teaching of the apostles, and Christianity would in fact become the dominant religion of Europe.

4. Therefore it was totally appropriate that this prayer be prayed for the apostles and disciples. An important job was to be done for Christ.

5. At the same time, this prayer could not possibly nullify the Rapture, since that had already been revealed in John 14:1-3.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
3,676
650
113
This is an excellent example how a verse can be taken out of context and misapplied (and thus a doctrine perverted).

1. Christ was about to be crucified, and within 40 days of that He would depart from earth to Heaven.

2. It was critical that the apostles remain on earth in order to fulfill the Great Commission. The day of Pentecost would be 50 days after the crucifixion.

3. There would be a multitude of Christians saved as a result of the preaching and teaching of the apostles, and Christianity would in fact become the dominant religion of Europe.

4. Therefore it was totally appropriate that this prayer be prayed for the apostles and disciples. An important job was to be done for Christ.

5. At the same time, this prayer could not possibly nullify the Rapture, since that had already been revealed in John 14:1-3.
John 17:15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. ....
20“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,;)

This prayer, definitely nullifies rapture.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
3,676
650
113
That, my friend refers to the Rapture......being taken up....just another way to say it;....those dead in Christ shall rise up and be met in the air by those living in Christ and together they shall.....
Nice try but nope. No one is told to fly off but they are told to hide for a while here on earth until the wrath is passed.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,672
230
63
Nice try but nope. No one is told to fly off but they are told to hide for a while here on earth until the wrath is passed.
Your rejection of G-d's word does not change the Bible....neither does your unsupported opinion change the Bible.......thank G-d.
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
3,530
532
113
You stumble on Truth an can hardly believe your stumbling on Truth, Paul, "Fulfilling what is left behind of the sufferings of Christ." "If we suffer with Him we shall rule with Him." Yes Saints suffered with Him, more in our time than we are able to count, in China and Rusha alone. Something you should consider, that may change your view, "Nothing shall by any means harm you if you believe." This does not make sence, until you include dying will not harm us, if we believe (follow Jesus in His suffering amd death). God will not let us bear more than we can handle. The more mature we are, the more we rely on His Grace. Why some are afraid to grow up? Teresa of Avilla told the Lord: If this is how you treat your friends, its no wondwr you have so fiew. As we follow Jesus in His death we enter Resurrection that can't be obtained any other way. What seems to end our life causes us to enter into Life in God. There is no Saint who has not tasted suffering with Christ. Grace is the influence of God that is sufiscient: to kill our sin nature (comonlly knowm as egotist: the fruit of thee mind of the flesh, the fruit of the tree of knowlege of good and evil), to carry us to the Resurection. Ebery one suffers wether in fear and unnelief or with Christ. "Perfect Love delivers us from all fear. I have experienced reeiving this comfort and know it cant be attained by our works: I have not been able to live in that comfort. We can only make room to receivw it, In the fear of God: in admiration worship.
I agree totally saint, to suffer for the gospels sake but we are not appointed to wrath which is from God.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
10,540
890
113
Noose said: How about, there's no rapture at all.
Nobody is flying out of this earth. The elect are taken out of this earth through painful death to be guided out of evil; God has said so (Isa 57:1-5/ Psalm 116:15/ Rev 14:14-20).

Can we just say, it has been a misunderstanding to begin with.

No body literally flies anywhere. literally no movement in the presence of God as the bosom of Abraham. The elects new spirits are removed for this realm under the sun to the invisible presence of God .
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,672
230
63
Noose said: How about, there's no rapture at all.
Nobody is flying out of this earth. The elect are taken out of this earth through painful death to be guided out of evil; God has said so (Isa 57:1-5/ Psalm 116:15/ Rev 14:14-20).

Can we just say, it has been a misunderstanding to begin with.

No body literally flies anywhere. literally no movement in the presence of God as the bosom of Abraham. The elects new spirits are removed for this realm under the sun to the invisible presence of God .
You are being redundant.

The rapture is well established in scripture.
If you wish, show scripture where the Bible says...there will be no rapture.....?

We are waiting.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
3,676
650
113
You are being redundant.

The rapture is well established in scripture.
If you wish, show scripture where the Bible says...there will be no rapture.....?

We are waiting.
John 17:15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. ....
20“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
10,540
890
113
You are being redundant.

The rapture is well established in scripture.
If you wish, show scripture where the Bible says...there will be no rapture.....?

We are waiting.
That's not what I was saying the rapture has corrupted the graves were opened . That gates remains open till the last day ..
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
2,848
564
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Matthew 24:42
Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day on which your Lord will come.

For you mid tribers if you divide the 7years of tribulation then you know his return.

For the post tribers you know that the lords return is after the seven yrs.

For the pre tribers this scripture holds true so I'm curious as to how you get around this?
I definitely lean toward the pretrib view, so I support your point.

But I don't think this is even close to conclusive proof of pretrib. For the person who holds the midtrib view for example: it can/could be a bit fuzzy exactly when the exact day is that the 7 year tribulation starts - and hence there is no way to know for sure the exact day the middle of the trib period is.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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I definitely lean toward the pretrib view, so I support your point.

But I don't think this is even close to conclusive proof of pretrib. For the person who holds the midtrib view for example: it can/could be a bit fuzzy exactly when the exact day is that the 7 year tribulation starts - and hence there is no way to know for sure the exact day the middle of the trib period is.
I would think we would have to first identify the what is the "tribulation of Jacob" as to how the word Jacob is used in the Bible .His named was changed for some reason. I think when the veil was rent the time of reformation had come. A tribulation of Jacob signified as natural man a outward Jew used to represent mankind as a whole in respect to what the eyes see.... from that time forever more.

Many today are hoping their flesh could profit for something shown by a wailing wall as a idol image or teraphim.. . We are in the last days for almost 2000 literal years.

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Mathew 24:21

One time demonstration of the unseen work of the Spirit of Christ. He will come as a thief in the night on the last day..as we are informed in the book of John 6 times to cement his footprint the law of faith .
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,672
230
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John 17:15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. ....
20“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,
Not applicable...to rapture.