How holy do you think Mary's womb could be?

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TaylorTG

Guest
#21
#21
Green Bears Rule the Earth.


Timeline said:
Luke 11:27-28
[SUP]27 [/SUP]While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed.”[SUP]28 [/SUP]But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.”

John 2:3-5
[SUP]3 [/SUP]When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus *said to Him, “They have no wine.” [SUP]4 [/SUP]And Jesus *said to her, “Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come.” [SUP]5 [/SUP]His mother *said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.”

While some will say that Jesus was being disrespectful or ugly here, I certainly do not believe that to be the case. But more importantly, He is not speaking to her as if she were Mother of God, but a God-fearing woman who God allowed to carry Jesus in her womb.

I will tell you right now, that if Mary were to hear someone worshipping her (or praying to her), while she was alive (in the flesh), she would have told them to stop. Now I do think that she would have gladly prayed for you had you asked her while she was living, but I do not think you should be doing it now. Pray to God, in the name of Jesus Christ.
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Timeline said:
John 2:12 After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother and His brothers and His disciples; and they stayed there a few days.

Acts 1:14 These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.

There is nothing in scripture to indicate that Mary remained a virgin. To the contrary, we see enough evidence to conclude that Mary had children after Jesus was born. For some reason the Catholic Church seems to be compelled to worship Mary and make her out to be someone that she was not.
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Mary: Ever Virgin | Catholic Answers
When Were Joseph and Mary Married? | Catholic Answers
Jesus had Brothers? | Catholic Answers




Mary had a little lamb, a little lamb, a Godly lamb, Mary had a little lamb that would become Christ the kinnng .

Mary borne a little lamb a little lamb a humble lamb, Mary borne a humble lamb the humblest of alll kinnngssss.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#23
#23
well considering that after jesus was born mary still had to go to the temple for the ritual purification to remove the ceremonial uncleanness that resulted from childbirth...it seems like the pregnancy did not make her womb more holy...
 
Simona25

Simona25

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#24
Sep 10, 2013
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#24
RachelBibleStudent said:
well considering that after jesus was born mary still had to go to the temple for the ritual purification to remove the ceremonial uncleanness that resulted from childbirth...it seems like the pregnancy did not make her womb more holy...
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Did it ever occur to you that maybe she did this because she and Joseph were righteous people before God and they kept the law? Did Christ needed to be baptized by St. John the Baptizer?
 
Simona25

Simona25

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#25
Sep 10, 2013
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#25
RachelBibleStudent said:
well considering that after jesus was born mary still had to go to the temple for the ritual purification to remove the ceremonial uncleanness that resulted from childbirth...it seems like the pregnancy did not make her womb more holy...
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Also, don't you realize the consequences that your statement has? If her womb is not holy than that means that God Himself is not holy.
 
Patnubay

Patnubay

Senior Member
#27
May 27, 2014
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#27
RachelBibleStudent said:
well considering that after jesus was born mary still had to go to the temple for the ritual purification to remove the ceremonial uncleanness that resulted from childbirth...it seems like the pregnancy did not make her womb more holy...
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The ritual was a thing Jews have to do that time like Jesus being baptized by John the Baptist .

Regarding the womb, It is what I'm trying to get an answer. How come Mary's womb didn't end up like Jesus' cloak.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#28
Dec 12, 2013
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#28
Well I thought I had seen it all.....so far this takes the cake for sure!
 
Patnubay

Patnubay

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#29
May 27, 2014
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#29
Simona25 said:
Also, don't you realize the consequences that your statement has? If her womb is not holy than that means that God Himself is not holy.
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I don't think I'd go that far. Jesus is holy whether or not what He touches becomes holy or not. What I am trying to understand here is why there is no record in the bible that Mary's womb showed any supernatural characteristics considering she had Jesus in her for 9 months.

Mary is a revered person to everyone who knows her. I have so much respect for her. She is a saint among Catholics. And I believe she is Jesus' mother. This thread has no intention whatsoever to disrespect her.
 
Simona25

Simona25

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#30
Sep 10, 2013
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#30
Patnubay said:
I don't think I'd go that far. Jesus is holy whether or not what He touches becomes holy or not. What I am trying to understand here is why there is no record in the bible that Mary's womb showed any supernatural characteristics considering she had Jesus in her for 9 months.
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St. Mary is the temple of God!
Christianity begins with the complete theosis (sanctification) of a human being, Mary. We are all called to sanctification, to become temples of the Holy Spirit, to unite with Christ. But, none of us will ever come to that complete theosis because what happened 2000 years ago is something unique in the human history! Can't you people understand that? Are your minds out if iron?

There are records of the miracles of the Theotokos (miracles done due to the Holy Spirit that dwells in her, not because of her human powers) in the Saint Tradition.

Patnubay said:
Mary is a revered person to everyone who knows her. I have so much respect for her. She is a saint among Catholics. And I believe she is Jesus' mother. This thread has no intention whatsoever to disrespect her.
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Just to be clear: without the supra-veneration of Theotokos, christianity is just a religion and not a Church (the body of Christ, an organism that is both divine and human).
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#32
Nov 24, 2012
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#32
I don't like getting into these discussions as it is a matter of Church Tradition vs Scripture.
If what Rome and the East all claim about the fantastical things concerning Mary was true, you'd think her name would come up at least one time from the books of Romans to Revelation and way more than just once in the Book of Acts.

Sometime one must make their choice...Church Tradition or Scripture as the Final Authority.
 
Simona25

Simona25

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#33
Sep 10, 2013
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#33
crossnote said:
Church Tradition or Scripture as the Final Authority.
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For me it's both of them.
Actually, the Bible itself has relevance (for me) only inside the Church. It is the Church that comes first and then the Bible; and not the other way around. I have seen enough of what people can do with the Bible when they do not have the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
 
crossnote

crossnote

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#34
Nov 24, 2012
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#34
Simona25 said:
For me it's both of them.
Actually, the Bible itself has relevance (for me) only inside the Church. It is the Church that comes first and then the Bible; and not the other way around. I have seen enough of what people can do with the Bible when they do not have the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
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Then that is not the fault of the bible, it is the fault of those without the guidance of the Holy Spirit working in His Word.
The same can be said with what people can do with Church Tradition when they do not have the guidance of the Holy Spirit working through His Word.
But anyways, I'll leave it at that.
 
damombomb

damombomb

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#35
Feb 27, 2011
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#35
The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the most high will overshadow you, and the" holy thing" which is begotten shall be called the son of God.

It never said Mary did miracles, but was chosen to give birth to Jesus. Jesus was the holy one here.

​
 
Simona25

Simona25

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#36
Sep 10, 2013
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#36
crossnote said:
Then that is not the fault of the bible, it is the fault of those without the guidance of the Holy Spirit working in His Word.
The same can be said with what people can do with Church Tradition when they do not have the guidance of the Holy Spirit working through His Word.
But anyways, I'll leave it at that.
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You have to admit that chronologically, the Church comes before the Bible. So, to separate them or to claim the Sola Scriptura does not really make sense.
 
crossnote

crossnote

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#37
Nov 24, 2012
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#37
Simona25 said:
You have to admit that chronologically, the Church comes before the Bible. So, to separate them or to claim the Sola Scriptura does not really make sense.
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Well I believe the old testament also to be the bible and it was here much much before Rome or the Eastern Churches.
oops, or the prots too :)
 
Simona25

Simona25

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#38
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#38
crossnote said:
Well I believe the old testament also to be the bible and it was here much much before Rome or the Eastern Churches.
oops, or the prots too :)
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Of course. I didn't say otherwise. Christ Himself quoted from the O.T. several times. I am talking about the entire Bible. While the O.T. had a profound prophetical purpose, the letters of the apostles that have been compiled in the N.T have a different one.
 
crossnote

crossnote

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#39
Nov 24, 2012
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#39
Simona25 said:
Of course. I didn't say otherwise. Christ Himself quoted from the O.T. several times. I am talking about the entire Bible. While the O.T. had a profound prophetical purpose, the letters of the apostles that have been compiled in the N.T have a different one.
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But you said the Church comes before the bible (OT&NT), how so?
 
Patnubay

Patnubay

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#40
May 27, 2014
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#40
Simona25 said:
St. Mary is the temple of God!
Christianity begins with the complete theosis (sanctification) of a human being, Mary. We are all called to sanctification, to become temples of the Holy Spirit, to unite with Christ. But, none of us will ever come to that complete theosis because what happened 2000 years ago is something unique in the human history! Can't you people understand that? Are your minds out if iron?


There are records of the miracles of the Theotokos (miracles done due to the Holy Spirit that dwells in her, not because of her human powers) in the Saint Tradition.



Just to be clear: without the supra-veneration of Theotokos, christianity is just a religion and not a Church (the body of Christ, an organism that is both divine and human).
Click to expand...

Hi Simona25,

I appreciate your respond and explanation. You made it very clear and I do understand what you are trying to convey. But I suppose it is not my faith. Thanks, though.
 
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