How old is our creation really?

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jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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#61
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How old is our creation really?
As regards our understanding of how old the earth really is from the Scriptures, that depends totally on our interpretation of them.

1) If we just look at the first 3 chapters of Genesis as the full account of creation, we will (generally) arrive at a "young earth."

2) However, if we look at all the Scriptures on the account of creation, an individual will (generally) arrive with an "old earth" view.

Like the study of all the Scriptures, we should approach it with an attitude of the Bereans in Acts 17v10-12, and the prophets in 1Peter 1v10-12.

I spent two and a half years studying this out with MUCH prayer and ended up writing a study on it...
 
Jun 30, 2015
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#62
Not true at all. Those are far from speculation. It’s also based off of multiple half lives from different elements, the fossil record, ice cores, dendrological calculations and even algorithms focused on genetic decoding.
… all of which depend on unproveable assumptions (i.e.: speculation). :)
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
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#63
What type of dating did they use? Based on element half lives you use different ones for different things. One big mistake unqualified people often make is that they use the wrong approach to the wrong circumstance, and then they don’t at least double check it using the same process plus double check it using another viable option.
Potassium Argon radiometric dating .. The ones conducting the tests were not told where the rock come from is my understanding ..
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
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#64
While the Bible is known to make gigantic leaps in time without specific details. It seems at first sight Abraham was born about 2000 years after Adam. This would show us a young creation according to our Bible.

Yet science had me almost convinced our earth is billions of years old. But knowing they lie and mock anyone raising serious questions I denounced science when it comes to our origins. I was really devoted in my studies but all I found was slander, corruptions, half truths to sell a full lie...

Yet my own mind raised a serious question last night: If our God is infinite, why would He only start creating roughly 6000 to 10000 years ago?

Maybe I should rewatch my beliefs on this and only see human life as a young creation? Any insight in this is very welcomed.
How long did it take for Aarons rod/staff to sprout, bud, flower and produce ripe almonds ?
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
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#65
Mt St Helens was a living laboratory for Creation scientist.

Spirit lake with all the trees deposited, an exact image of the petrified standing forest, created in like 10 years.

Secular scientist have claimed tree deposits as this around the world are millions of years old, proven wrong.

The mini grand canyon, created in just one week, by the catastrophic event.

Institute For Creation Research
Yep ..
Trees floated and were debarked by hundreds of thousands then different species of trees floated according to each kinds resin content (not evolution) until they become waterlogged also then sank (standing upright) accordingly .. Sorry Bill Nye the BS guy missed it completely concerning petrified forests , lol ..
 
Jun 30, 2015
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#66
What type of dating did they use? Based on element half lives you use different ones for different things. One big mistake unqualified people often make is that they use the wrong approach to the wrong circumstance, and then they don’t at least double check it using the same process plus double check it using another viable option.
It's rather telling that you automatically assume that the people who did the investigation were "unqualified".

You might consider reading the following link: https://www.icr.org/i/pdf/research/rate-all.pdf
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
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#67
Apparently they have found soft tissue and blood vessels in dinosaur bones, a process that has been repeated time and time again. Carbon dating of this material claims to be 28,000 years old and some even less than 10,000 years. Interesting rabbit hole if you're into that sort of thing.

About 42 minutes into this video talks about soft dino tissue .. But the whole video is awesome
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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#68
Yep ..
Trees floated and were debarked by hundreds of thousands then different species of trees floated according to each kinds resin content (not evolution) until they become waterlogged also then sank (standing upright) accordingly .. Sorry Bill Nye the BS guy missed it completely concerning petrified forests , lol ..
Yep, I studied the young earth evidence for about 1 year solid, man is a liar trying Desparately to remove God from the hearts and minds of his Creation.

You can go to caves and cavern tours, and the guide will always mention in reference to the hanging stalactites (Thousands & Thousands) of years ago, a (LIE)

Just as they lie about evolution, Piltdown man being the fraud in 1912, and mans lie was kept aiive for 41 years, put into public school textbooks and museums world wide, and exposed as a fraud in 1953.

Just like the Media (Fake News) false lying narratives today, as California fires burn out of control, with Governor Newsom and Kamala Harris shouting climate change in recent video clips a (Lie)

A large majority of these fires were intentional arson, and human interaction, as the liberal democrats are trying desperately to build a platform of lies.

Creation.com

Rapid stalactites
by Stephen Meyers and Robert Doolan

Those beautiful stone ‘icicles’ you see hanging from the ceiling of limestone caves are called stalactites (they ‘stay tight’ on the ceiling). The forms you see growing up from the cave floor are called stalagmites. When they meet, the joined pair becomes a column. Sheet-like layered deposits on cave walls or floors are called flowstone.
Although these fantastic features are commonly thought to represent perhaps tens of thousands of years or more of groundwater action,1 there is much evidence that they can form rapidly under certain conditions. For example, Sequoyah Caverns, south of Chattanooga at Valley Head, Alabama, has fast-growing formations. Director of the caverns, Clark Byers, cemented a clear plastic panel in front of some stalactites in April, 1977, to prevent tourists from breaking them off. In less than 10 years the stalactites grew about 25 centimetres (10 inches or one inch per year). On the ceiling of the cave, animal tracks can be seen, and there are fossils of many marine creatures—plus a bird fossil which looks like a chicken. In an interview in 1985, cavern director Byers made no secret of the fact that he believes these fossils are a result of Noah’s Flood.
So how fast can stalactites and stalagmites form?
Bat Cave
In October 1953, National Geographic published a photo of a bat that had fallen on a stalagmite in the famous Carlsbad Caverns, New Mexico, and had been cemented on to it. The stalagmite had grown so fast it was able to preserve the bat before the creature had time to decompose.2
Stalactites many centimetres long are sometimes seen under modern-day bridges and in tunnels. Some stalactites have formed quickly in a tunnel in Raccoon Mountain, just west of Chattanooga, Tennessee. The tunnel was blasted through the mountain’s limestone rock to build a power plant in 1977. Water from the plant’s pump-turbines dissolves the limestone, and stalactites form rapidly.
At Australia’s Jenolan Caves in New South Wales, a lemonade bottle was placed below a continually active stalactite in the ‘Temple of Baal’ in 1954. In the following 33 years a coating of calcite about three millimetres thick has formed on the bottle. The same amount of deposit has formed since development in 1932 of the Ribbon Cave in the jenolan system. At this time pathways were cut through areas of flowstone. Water flowing down the sides of these cuttings over the past 55 years has built up the current deposit.
A photograph taken in February, 1968, shows a curtain of stalactites growing from the foundation ceiling beneath the Lincoln Memorial in Washington DC. Some of the stalactites had grown to five feet long (a metre and a half) in the 45 years since the memorial was built in 1923.3
At jenolan Caves and many other places there are examples of stalactites and stalagmites developing from man-made structures. Like the Lincoln Memorial, the jenolan structures contain cement-mortar which is highly permeable, allowing these formations to develop rapidly. The resultant formation is quite powdery and brittle however.
 

AndyMaleh

Well-known member
Jun 26, 2020
644
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#69
While the Bible is known to make gigantic leaps in time without specific details. It seems at first sight Abraham was born about 2000 years after Adam. This would show us a young creation according to our Bible.

Yet science had me almost convinced our earth is billions of years old. But knowing they lie and mock anyone raising serious questions I denounced science when it comes to our origins. I was really devoted in my studies but all I found was slander, corruptions, half truths to sell a full lie...

Yet my own mind raised a serious question last night: If our God is infinite, why would He only start creating roughly 6000 to 10000 years ago?

Maybe I should rewatch my beliefs on this and only see human life as a young creation? Any insight in this is very welcomed.
The Bible does not directly state the age of the Earth, and as such, it does not matter to my faith in God what the age of the Earth is whatsoever. I don't even think about it nor care and think it is a very impractical unimportant concern to think about regardless.

Godspeed.
 
Jun 30, 2015
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#70
The Bible does not directly state the age of the Earth, and as such, it does not matter to my faith in God what the age of the Earth is whatsoever. I don't even think about it nor care and think it is a very impractical unimportant concern to think about regardless.

Godspeed.
That's a fair point as it relates to your personal faith, but what would you say to someone who rejects God because the Bible "disagrees with science" regarding the age of the earth?
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#71
In retrospect, my statement is incorrect. I should have said that the dinosaurs showed a sudden and catastrophic end to some era, and that this era predated Noah. Thanks for bringing me back to it.
 
Aug 10, 2020
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#72
He moves his (Tail) like a cedar tree?

Does an Elephant or a Hippo have a tail like a (Cedar Tree)?

1+1=2

(Brontosaurus)


Brontosaurus

Job 40:15-24KJV
15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.
Again, I would suggest we stick to Scripture, than the fantasies of men.

The word used here in Job 40:15 is, בְּהֵמוֹת (BeHEMOTH), used only here in this verse. It is the plural form of: בְּהֵמָה (BeHEMAH), which is used 190 times in the Old Testament. BeHEMAH, is usually translated in English as: "Beast, cattle or dumb beast" However, in this verse it is used in a singular idea. Linguist think the derivation, to be Egyptian. If that is true, then it would imply the Hippo or as the Egyptians called them Nile horses.

It would be a far cry to all of a sudden give this one use of the word, the meaning of a dinosaur. Since the word is "plural" it represents beast in large numbers, ie... a heard, even though here it is being given a singular idea. Perhaps the thought is, as a heard moves as one organism.

There is much symbolism in this portion of Job. No single animal could drink up a river, (V23) or draw up the Jordan, into his mouth.
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#73
The Bible Teaches Man (Job) Walked With Dinosaurs, Just One Example (Behemoth/Brontosaurus)

God Made The Beast Of Earth And Man On The 6th Day, I Believe Your Claim Is Unfounded.

How does the permafrost support your claim of the earths age to man?

Job 40:15-24KJV
15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

Genesis 1:24-31KJV
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
See my correction in posting # 71.

The issue of the permafrost is also not a proof for the Bible. But Genesis 1:7 poses an interesting theory. In it, God divided the waters into two layers - (i) the seas on earth and (ii) another layer above heaven. This canopy of water would have had a "greenhouse" effect on earth. There would have been a mild sub-tropical climate over the whole earth with verdant vegetation - more than enough to feed a population of dinosaurs. In Genesis 7:11 this canopy crashed to the earth to complete the flood. Now, the consequences of this would be that clouds only form by evaporation (or moisture in the air) or orographic effect (either by terrain or fronts). With this canopy gone, winter and summer would replace the the greenhouse effect, and in the temperate zones of the earth the natural foliage would so reduced as to preclude the diet of a dinosaur. Remember, there were only a pair of each species and Ararat is at 40°N.

This would mean (i) much reduced food and (ii) a vicious winter. The dinosaurs with their dietary needs would not have survived. But another interesting thing would have happened with that first winter. Normally, when an animal dies and falls down, it is eaten by scavengers over a short period of time. Finding whole animals in the permafrost means three things. (i) The animals died suddenly, (ii) the scavengers died suddenly too, and (iii) winter set in in an area that once held a population of dinosaurs before decomposition was advanced. It is notable that the Covenant of the rainbow is based on winter and summer (Gen.8:22) - which were never mentioned before the flood. Added to this, Psalm 74:17 says that, "... thou hast made summer and winter". Now, the word "made" does not mean to create out of nothing like in Genesis 1:1. It rather means to "form" or "press into place" like a potter forms clay - that the materials were there but were "fashioned" later. That would mean that the world had the potential for winter and summer from the creation, but were "pressed into place" sometime later.

Now, I'm not creating doctrine here. I am presenting a possible scenario on earth immediately before, and immediately after the Great Flood of Noah's time. The reader, scientist and/or average citizen can think what they like. But old and even so-called prehistoric animals preserved in the permafrost is a fact. How they got there is subject to logical deduction, which assumes no change in the laws of nature, but which admits that there are no eye witnesses except the eight in the Ark. And they didn't tell.

Go well bro.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
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#74
Yes. The dinosaurs, especially those in the permafrost of Siberia, are a great proof that (i) the earth is much older than man, and (ii) there was a catastrophic and sudden end like the flood. What they don't tell of course is how long they were around. By the way, if you are really interested in this matter, may I recommend a book. It is probably out of print, but it should be public domain by now, so you might get it online for free. It is "Earth's Earliest Ages" by G. H. Pember. Pember is recognized, even by his detractors, as one the best Victorian scholars of Bible prophesy. If you want a hard copy, try Schoettle Publications at https://www.schoettlepublishing.com/

Go well bro.
Ice sheet thickness in Greenland using the ''lost squadron'' for a scale puts you real close to the great flood biblical time (not millions of yrs), total depth of ice to ground rock .. When the idea of retrieving the lost squadron began it was thought it was under 12 ft of ice at the most .. And remember, there was no rain until the year Methuselah died and after he died
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
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#75
See my correction in posting # 71.

The issue of the permafrost is also not a proof for the Bible. But Genesis 1:7 poses an interesting theory. In it, God divided the waters into two layers - (i) the seas on earth and (ii) another layer above heaven. This canopy of water would have had a "greenhouse" effect on earth. There would have been a mild sub-tropical climate over the whole earth with verdant vegetation - more than enough to feed a population of dinosaurs. In Genesis 7:11 this canopy crashed to the earth to complete the flood. Now, the consequences of this would be that clouds only form by evaporation (or moisture in the air) or orographic effect (either by terrain or fronts). With this canopy gone, winter and summer would replace the the greenhouse effect, and in the temperate zones of the earth the natural foliage would so reduced as to preclude the diet of a dinosaur. Remember, there were only a pair of each species and Ararat is at 40°N.

This would mean (i) much reduced food and (ii) a vicious winter. The dinosaurs with their dietary needs would not have survived. But another interesting thing would have happened with that first winter. Normally, when an animal dies and falls down, it is eaten by scavengers over a short period of time. Finding whole animals in the permafrost means three things. (i) The animals died suddenly, (ii) the scavengers died suddenly too, and (iii) winter set in in an area that once held a population of dinosaurs before decomposition was advanced. It is notable that the Covenant of the rainbow is based on winter and summer (Gen.8:22) - which were never mentioned before the flood. Added to this, Psalm 74:17 says that, "... thou hast made summer and winter". Now, the word "made" does not mean to create out of nothing like in Genesis 1:1. It rather means to "form" or "press into place" like a potter forms clay - that the materials were there but were "fashioned" later. That would mean that the world had the potential for winter and summer from the creation, but were "pressed into place" sometime later.

Now, I'm not creating doctrine here. I am presenting a possible scenario on earth immediately before, and immediately after the Great Flood of Noah's time. The reader, scientist and/or average citizen can think what they like. But old and even so-called prehistoric animals preserved in the permafrost is a fact. How they got there is subject to logical deduction, which assumes no change in the laws of nature, but which admits that there are no eye witnesses except the eight in the Ark. And they didn't tell.

Go well bro.
Good point .. Some folks believe God set the earth on its 23-24 degree axis caused the great flood, seasons, and sudden low pressure for the first time and crashing the vapor canopy
20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
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#76
Dr Mori Kai or Kai Mori grew a cherry tomato plant that lived years and produced thousands of baseball sized cherry tomatoes in Tokyo and I think it grew 30-40 ft tall .. He grew them under pressure of co2 and provided ultraviolet light (no direct sunlight) to produce his preflood like giant plant .. Many grower pipe in xtra co2 in their greenhouses today .. Co2 is near a historic low in our atmosphere today compared to times past ...
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
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#77
I believe the age of Creation is a major issue.

It's the world and liberal secular humanist that want to remove God from the world.

What better lie can you give the world than to quote (Billions) of years ago, a God forgotten?

The oldest life form in California the (Bristle Cone Pine) is dated to be around 5,000 years old, putting it in line almost perfectly with Noah's Flood, in agreement with the Holy Bible

Wikipedia: Bristlecone pine covers three species of pine tree (family Pinaceae, genus Pinus, subsection Balfourianae). All three species are long-lived and highly resilient to harsh weather and bad soils. One of the three species, Pinus longaeva, is among the longest-lived life forms on Earth. The oldest Pinus longaeva is more than 4,800 years old,[1] making it the oldest known individual of any species.


Great Basin bristlecone pines in the Ancient Bristlecone Pine Forest of the White Mountains, California
They do appear to be old but some kinds of plants can have more than one growth period in the same year depending on conditions ..
 
Sep 5, 2016
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#78
If you add up the years of genealogy, then add 2020 years since Christ, you'll find the earth is less than 15,000 years old.
 
Jun 30, 2015
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#79
In retrospect, my statement is incorrect. I should have said that the dinosaurs showed a sudden and catastrophic end to some era, and that this era predated Noah. Thanks for bringing me back to it.
Why do you say that this era predated Noah?
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
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#80
I would agree with you. Later in my studies, there seem to be a necessity for "The Gap Theory" You pointed to the most obvious, Lucifer's Fall and the war in Heaven. The casting down of the Devil (Lucifer) and the Angels that followed him.

Scripture teaches the World as we know it, was renewed in SIX literal days. This I except as literal fact. However, the Fall from Heaven must have taken place before this time. Also, in support of the "Gap Theory", you have the following:

1) The Hebrew word translated "created", in Gen.1:1, is BARA' - which generally caries the sense of something created from nothing. However it was used in Gen 1:27, in the creation of man but we are told that God used the dust of the earth to form man. (Gen. 2:7) So man's creation was not from nothing but from something. So BARA' can carry the idea of both, creation from nothing and creation or renovation from something else.

2) The other Hebrew word for "to make, to bring into being or to renovate", is HAYAH - which is always used in the sense of re-creation or renovation. To call forth something from something.

So Gen 1:1 is an indisputable fact. "In the beginning..." The beginning of creation and the beginning of time.

In Gen. 1:2 is the state of the Earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Here, we have a declaration, that is a little troubling. It is difficult to square with this verse of Scripture:

Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Surly, God did not create the earth as it is in verse 2. He would have spoke it into existence so it could be used and inhabited. Instead from verses 3 - forward, we see God renovating the Earth back into a useful planet. Surly, God would create nothing that was covered with darkness. Something must have happened here.

Some believe, that the Earth was thrown into a useless state subsequent to the Fall of the warring Angels and the Devil being cast down. That he was cast down to the Earth and God cursed the original creation because of sin. Therefore, the Earth had to be renovated for man's inhabitation and the whole time this was going on, that ole' Serpent, was looking on to see what God was doing in his backyard. The renovation of Earth took only 6 days and God rested on the 7th.

Man has been on the Earth for around six-thousand years, as traced through the Genealogy from Adam to now. But if the "Gap Theory" is a correct view, how old is the Earth and the Universe? God only knows.
Perhaps Adam and Eve were not the only created on day 6
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.