How To Be Un-Saved

[Yahshua]

By your words you will be justified and or condemned...who is accusing...I am stating facts based upon the things you say and peddle.....end of story.....and like the old saying...if the boot fits.....

Your reference to JUDAS...not JUDAH and it is plain as day you peddle he was saved and then lost it...man you sure are deceptive...!!

YOUR WORDS
If then we sin willfully? After all of that?? There's nothing left for us. Nothing. This is why Judas is forever lost as an example. He tasted of the kingdom.

Exactly. You can't show me where I said Judas was saved, but I'll show you where Judas tasted the kingdom...


Question: What is the kingdom of God? Or better yet; WHO is the kingdom?

Answer:

Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Luke 10:3, 8-9, 16-20
Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves...If you enter a town and they welcome you, eat whatever is set before you. Heal the sick who are there and tell them, ‘The kingdom of God is near you.’...Whoever listens to you listens to Me; whoever rejects you rejects Me; and whoever rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me.” The seventy* returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in Your name.”

18 So He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. See, I have given you authority to tread on snakes and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy. Nothing will harm you. Nevertheless, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

Luke 11:20
But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

Luke 17:21
nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is in within you {or your midst}."

Did Judas follow and experience Christ healing the sick, raising the dead, and casting out demons during his ministry? Did Judas listen to him and follow his instructions? Was Judas one of those "sent out" who cast out demons in Christ's name (apostle means "sent out one")? Did Judas experience the kingdom of God? What or WHO is the kingdom of God?

And then who was lost even after all of that?

Christ's words justify me. End of story...unless you're now going to claim Christ is incorrect now?

 

[Yahshua]

Just another false gospel ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ that devalues Christ, voids his promises and power and is a slap in the face of JESUS.....

We are KEPT by the POWER of GOD <---If JESUS cannot keep us and WE must do something to remain saved...he is very weak, inept and his promises mean nothing.....!

I BELIEVE he KEEPS his word, is ALL powerful and does not need my help to KEEP me SAVED by HIS POWER!

It slaps in the face someone here, but not the Christ.

John 15:4-8
4 Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me.

5 I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will produce much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing.

6 If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.

7 If you remain in Me and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to My Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, proving yourselves to be My disciples.

There would be no "if" unless there remains the power of choice and required action. The divine power of God is useless to us unless we remain connected to the source and use it. THAT'S when he keeps us. Don't deny our own agency/responsibility in this walk.

Agency = "a thing or person that acts to produce a particular result."

There's a reason why the book of ACTS is call the ACTS of the apostles. It's because in following and abiding they had to take ACTION. This is why Christ specifically gave the parable about the talents as it relates to the kingdom. In that parable, it sounds like you would defend the servant who does nothing, who was called "wicked" in the end.

What point is there for Paul and Peter and James and John to instruct all of these new believers if upon conversion there's nothing else for them to do (i.e. things to avoid, mistakes to correct or knowledge to act upon)? By your rationale, since they're in God's hands there's really no need to instruct them is there? But this notion that it's somehow "automatic" after one confesses Christ isn't scriptural at all.

Once one is saved, one must "STAY" on the straight and narrow.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes it does matter... but if I tell you why it will influence your answer.

No, it does not matter because you believe you can lose that which is called ETERNAL/EVERLASTING and by default YOU must do something that MAINTAINS that which CHRIST promises to finish, complete and keep....

 

[dcontroversal]

NOW your being deceptive...how does that work for you in your I keep myself saved dogma......and when you can be honest..then engage me...I am tired of engaging workers for who cannot be honest...here...read your own words and it is obvious to all your statement indicated that Judas was saved and then lost it....and the reason I know what you indicated I have seen you use the text in Hebrews OUT OF CONTEXT to push your saved and then lost drivel.....

Originally Posted by Yahshua

You've a lot of accusations against me when I've never accused you once. So test the spirits. Which spirit are you of? There is only one spirit who accuses.

Also please provide the scripture that I clearly haven't understood and we will see what it says because right now you've proven that not only do you've a tendency to accuse but also to twist words.

We know of one who has always twisted words from the beginning also.

Show me where I said Judah was saved.



By your words you will be justified and or condemned...who is accusing...I am stating facts based upon the things you say and peddle.....end of story.....and like the old saying...if the boot fits.....

Your reference to JUDAS...not JUDAH and it is plain as day you peddle he was saved and then lost it...man you sure are deceptive...!!

YOUR WORDS
If then we sin willfully? After all of that?? There's nothing left for us. Nothing. This is why Judas is forever lost as an example. He tasted of the kingdom.

Exactly. You can't show me where I said Judas was saved, but I'll show you where Judas tasted the kingdom...


Question: What is the kingdom of God? Or better yet; WHO is the kingdom?

Answer:

Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Luke 10:3, 8-9, 16-20
Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves...If you enter a town and they welcome you, eat whatever is set before you. Heal the sick who are there and tell them, ‘The kingdom of God is near you.’...Whoever listens to you listens to Me; whoever rejects you rejects Me; and whoever rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me.” The seventy* returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in Your name.”

18 So He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. See, I have given you authority to tread on snakes and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy. Nothing will harm you. Nevertheless, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

Luke 11:20
But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

Luke 17:21
nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is in within you {or your midst}."

Did Judas follow and experience Christ healing the sick, raising the dead, and casting out demons during his ministry? Did Judas listen to him and follow his instructions? Was Judas one of those "sent out" who cast out demons in Christ's name (apostle means "sent out one")? Did Judas experience the kingdom of God? What or WHO is the kingdom of God?

And then who was lost even after all of that?

Christ's words justify me. End of story...unless you're now going to claim Christ is incorrect now?

 

[dcontroversal]

Once one is saved, one must "STAY" on the straight and narrow.

More working for drivel that takes the focus and glory off of Christ and places it upon self.....no thanks....Jesus said he would finish and complete the work of faith in me and that I am kept by the power of GOD....not myself and what I do or do not do....

Your view devalues the blood, power and work of Christ and is a slap in the face of the Son of God....end of story....!

 

[RickyZ]

No, it does not matter because you believe you can lose that which is called ETERNAL/EVERLASTING and by default YOU must do something that MAINTAINS that which CHRIST promises to finish, complete and keep....

This is not about Osas. This is about listening comprehension skills. To see if you are really listening to what's being said or if you are ignoring what is being said and just hearing your own pre-concieved notions.

You said:

*

Their version-->He that believes on the son, does 9654892 works plus 1, is Bap-tized wet, states the Lord's prayer 67 times, yells 47 hail Marys, plays with the plastic beads 89 times, confesses to some man in a box, back flips down the isle while saying mumbo jumbo 33 times super fast in some jibber jabbish, keeps all 613 laws 24/7/365 their whole life, never sins, does more works etc....might have eternal life as long as they, like the instructions on shampoo, rinse and repeat the above numerous times....

*

Now, I know there are people who preach this sort of thing and I believe they are wrong. The argument Ralph and I put forth is completely different than this. So, for $50 to the children's hospital, can you tell me - right, wrong or indifferent - what that difference is?

C'mon now - sick children are depending on you!

 

[dcontroversal]

This is not about Osas. This is about listening comprehension skills. To see if you are really listening to what's being said or if you are ignoring what is being said and just hearing your own pre-concieved notions.

You said:

*

Their version-->He that believes on the son, does 9654892 works plus 1, is Bap-tized wet, states the Lord's prayer 67 times, yells 47 hail Marys, plays with the plastic beads 89 times, confesses to some man in a box, back flips down the isle while saying mumbo jumbo 33 times super fast in some jibber jabbish, keeps all 613 laws 24/7/365 their whole life, never sins, does more works etc....might have eternal life as long as they, like the instructions on shampoo, rinse and repeat the above numerous times....

*

Now, I know there are people who preach this sort of thing and I believe they are wrong. The argument Ralph and I put forth is completely different than this. So, for $50 to the children's hospital, can you tell me - right, wrong or indifferent, what that difference is?

C'mon now - sick children are depending on you!

You are missing the point and no...you do not preach something different...

You believe that you can LOSE salvation<--YES or NO
IF YES above then I can conclude the following..
YOU must DO something or NOT do something to remain saved<--YES or NO

BY default, if you believe the above and answered YES then the IMPLICATION made BY my post fits your theology....the implication is....

I MUST do something to GAIN, KEEP or MAINTAIN salvation.........

My statement and then a summation of my statement....

Their version-->He that believes on the son, does 9654892 works plus 1, is Bap-tized wet, states the Lord's prayer 67 times, yells 47 hail Marys, plays with the plastic beads 89 times, confesses to some man in a box, back flips down the isle while saying mumbo jumbo 33 times super fast in some jibber jabbish, keeps all 613 laws 24/7/365 their whole life, never sins, does more works etc....might have eternal life as long as they, like the instructions on shampoo, rinse and repeat the above numerous times....

He that believes on the SON might have eternal life as long as they ________________________ <--fill in the blank....

This is exactly what one believes and teaches if they also believe and teach that salvation can be lost or forfeit.....

 

[Yahshua]

NOW your being deceptive...how does that work for you in your I keep myself saved dogma......and when you can be honest..then engage me...I am tired of engaging workers for who cannot be honest...here...read your own words and it is obvious to all your statement indicated that Judas was saved and then lost it....and the reason I know what you indicated I have seen you use the text in Hebrews OUT OF CONTEXT to push your saved and then lost drivel.....

Originally Posted by Yahshua

You've a lot of accusations against me when I've never accused you once. So test the spirits. Which spirit are you of? There is only one spirit who accuses.

Also please provide the scripture that I clearly haven't understood and we will see what it says because right now you've proven that not only do you've a tendency to accuse but also to twist words.

We know of one who has always twisted words from the beginning also.

Show me where I said Judah was saved.



By your words you will be justified and or condemned...who is accusing...I am stating facts based upon the things you say and peddle.....end of story.....and like the old saying...if the boot fits.....

Your reference to JUDAS...not JUDAH and it is plain as day you peddle he was saved and then lost it...man you sure are deceptive...!!

YOUR WORDS
If then we sin willfully? After all of that?? There's nothing left for us. Nothing. This is why Judas is forever lost as an example. He tasted of the kingdom.

I just gave an abundance scripture as proof that Judas tasted the kingdom...supporting my original argument that those who willfully sin after tasting the kingdom can't be saved again. But you won't address the scripture and rather keep telling me I'm saying what I haven't said. Ok as you wish, we'll leave it here then.

 

[RickyZ]

I guess we'll just chalk that up to the "not listening to anything but pre-concieved notions" column. Because what you just said proves you were not listening.

Sorry kids! But D doesn't think you're worth his consideration and an honest reply.

 

[dcontroversal]

I just gave an abundance scripture as proof that Judas tasted the kingdom...supporting my original argument that those who willfully sin after tasting the kingdom can't be saved again. But you won't address the scripture and rather keep telling me I'm saying what I haven't said. Ok as you wish, we'll leave it here then.

Judas was NEVER saved to begin with.....now your flip flopping again......man......your dishonesty is appalling

 

[dcontroversal]

I guess we'll just chalk that up to the "not listening to anything but pre-concieved notions" column. Because what you just said proves you were not listening.

Sorry kids! But D doesn't think you're worth his consideration and an honest reply.

How does lying fit your theology of keeping yourself saved Ricky?

I hear just fine and the points are clear....

If you must do something to remain saved or lose it you fit the implication of my original post...just be honest and admit it....simple truth...and send the 50 to Children's Hospital......

 

[dcontroversal]

Ricky...

Do you believe you can lose salvation? YES or NO
Do you believe you must do something to maintain it? YES or NO

 

[Yahshua]

Judas was NEVER saved to begin with.....now your flip flopping again......man......your dishonesty is appalling

???????? ^There's so much projection there it's almost palpable through my computer screen. I think even straw has started to sprout also. Don't worry, your strawman has sufficiently been vanquished. The record of what was said is there for anyone else to read, even if you choose not to accept it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

lol

im not sure i appreciate you calling me slick

what are you implying?

thats funny

He laughs at you with a pronoun, yet he missed it himself.

Work out YOUR salvation.

It is something you ALREADY POSSESS. not something your working to OBTAIN.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This member just takes pleasure in nitpicking and causing strife. I wouldn't pay him any mind.

he is on my iggy list also.

 

[dcontroversal]

???????? ^There's so much projection there it's almost palpable through my computer screen. I think even straw has started to sprout also. Don't worry, your strawman has sufficiently been vanquished. The record of what was said is there for anyone else to read, even if you choose not to accept it.

exactly....You implied Judas was saved and lost it, I called you on it, you denied you said it, I quoted your saying and proved you implied it, you denied it and then turned around and stated it again.....

yep...all can see you flip flop more than a fresh caught perch on the dock.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God bless you brother.... im about to take my leave anyways

God bless you too as well, my friend.

In the voice of tiny tim, "God bless us all every one!"

 

[RickyZ]

Ricky...

Do you believe you can lose salvation? YES or NO
Do you believe you must do something to maintain it? YES or NO

The answer to both questions is NO.

 

[dcontroversal]

he is on my iggy list also.

The thing I find interesting is the very simple proven fact that almost to a man the ones who push a losable salvation that must be maintained in some form or fashion cannot be honest, flip flop on what they say and flat misrepresent the truth on a regular basis.....

 

[star]

Wow, people who willfully sin after salvation lose their salvation. People who willfully sin after salvation, lose their salvation and cannot be saved again.

Oh what a tangled web we weave when we first begin to deceive.