How To Be Un-Saved
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Are you really insinuating that it's too hard to remember all of one's sins? Firstly, a family could come at ANY time throughout the year to confess their sins in the temple. There IS a such thing as unknown sins too (Leviticus 4).
But we're talking about Passover. Not atonement. Passover, on the 14th of the first month, is one of three feasts days when every abled-bodied male was required to be in Jerusalem with their spotless lambs (which is why all needed a place to stay). It's the day for personal redemption. And this is why it was an all day event. And when the last lamb was finally slaughtered the High Priest said, "it is finished". Atonement is for national redemption.
It surely is good unto the day of redemption. What does that say about you and your actions??
Wow. This is astounding.
Hebrews 11 is by all accounts called the "Faith in action" chapter. Faith in ACTION.
4 By faith Abel offered...
7 By faith Noah...prepared an ark...
8 By faith Abraham...obeyed; and he went out...
9 By faith he sojourned...dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob...
11 Through faith also Sara...conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age...
17 By faith Abraham...offered up Isaac...
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau...
21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph...
22 By faith Joseph...gave commandment concerning his bones...
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months by his parents
24 By faith Moses...refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God
27 By faith he forsook Egypt
28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood
29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they compassed [it] about seven days.
31 By faith the harlot Rahab...had received/hid the spies with peace.
32 And what shall I more say?...
33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.
34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword,out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38 Of whom the world was not worthy; they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Example after example after example of faith with action. Faith with action.
There is no such thing as faith without action. The first generation of ancient Israel did not enter because they refused to obey and conquer, and scripture says that's considered unbelief. The beginning of chapter 12 drives the point home.
12 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses [every single witness mentioned in chapter 11]...
let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
All of these are action words in the quintessential chapter on faith. We're required to have the faith of Abraham, well notice what Genesis 22:18 & 26:5 says:
Gen 22:18 "and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."
Gen 26:5 "because Abraham obeyed me and did everything I required of him, keeping my commands, my decrees and my instructions."
But we're talking about Passover. Not atonement. Passover, on the 14th of the first month, is one of three feasts days when every abled-bodied male was required to be in Jerusalem with their spotless lambs (which is why all needed a place to stay). It's the day for personal redemption. And this is why it was an all day event. And when the last lamb was finally slaughtered the High Priest said, "it is finished". Atonement is for national redemption.
It surely is good unto the day of redemption. What does that say about you and your actions??
Wow. This is astounding.
Hebrews 11 is by all accounts called the "Faith in action" chapter. Faith in ACTION.
4 By faith Abel offered...
7 By faith Noah...prepared an ark...
8 By faith Abraham...obeyed; and he went out...
9 By faith he sojourned...dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob...
11 Through faith also Sara...conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age...
17 By faith Abraham...offered up Isaac...
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau...
21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph...
22 By faith Joseph...gave commandment concerning his bones...
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months by his parents
24 By faith Moses...refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God
27 By faith he forsook Egypt
28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood
29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they compassed [it] about seven days.
31 By faith the harlot Rahab...had received/hid the spies with peace.
32 And what shall I more say?...
33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.
34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword,out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38 Of whom the world was not worthy; they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Example after example after example of faith with action. Faith with action.
There is no such thing as faith without action. The first generation of ancient Israel did not enter because they refused to obey and conquer, and scripture says that's considered unbelief. The beginning of chapter 12 drives the point home.
12 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses [every single witness mentioned in chapter 11]...
let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
All of these are action words in the quintessential chapter on faith. We're required to have the faith of Abraham, well notice what Genesis 22:18 & 26:5 says:
Gen 22:18 "and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."
Gen 26:5 "because Abraham obeyed me and did everything I required of him, keeping my commands, my decrees and my instructions."
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It seems you were saying, though, that there are those who are Christian in name only, those being "nominal." They have not been born again of he Holy Spirit of God, are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God, and have not truly believed in their hearts, even if they make professions with their mouths. Their religious observances, practices, and rituals will not save them, though they may call themselves Christians.
I haven't mocked any idea with regard to sin. But what I've read constantly is mockery and twisting of what I've said over and over by others. But to answer your question..
Are all sins known by God? Yes.
Are all sins known (in the mind) of a person? No. Some are ignorantly committed.
Does a person know the sins they know? Yes.
Does a person know the sins they don't know? No.
Must a person confess all sins to be cleansed of them. Yes.
How did they do this before Christ? Lay hands and confess their known sins over a sacrifice ("lord forgive me for doing x,y,z,a,b,c...etc.). For unknown sins they lay hands and confess their unknown sins over a sacrifice ("lord if there be any sin I committed that I don't know about please forgive me").
How do we do this now after Christ? In prayer confess your known sins to Christ ("lord forgive me for doing x,y,z,a,b,c...etc.). For unknown sins, in prayer we confess our unknown sins to Christ ("lord if there be any sin I committed that I don't know about please forgive me").
Are all sins known by God? Yes.
Are all sins known (in the mind) of a person? No. Some are ignorantly committed.
Does a person know the sins they know? Yes.
Does a person know the sins they don't know? No.
Must a person confess all sins to be cleansed of them. Yes.
How did they do this before Christ? Lay hands and confess their known sins over a sacrifice ("lord forgive me for doing x,y,z,a,b,c...etc.). For unknown sins they lay hands and confess their unknown sins over a sacrifice ("lord if there be any sin I committed that I don't know about please forgive me").
How do we do this now after Christ? In prayer confess your known sins to Christ ("lord forgive me for doing x,y,z,a,b,c...etc.). For unknown sins, in prayer we confess our unknown sins to Christ ("lord if there be any sin I committed that I don't know about please forgive me").
E
I am talking about the day of atonement, the one day a year where the high priest went in and made atonement for the sins of Israel. It is the same Day Jesus died, as the high priest was making intercession.
and you can remember every sin you made in a year? Get real man, that answer tells me you do not understand what sin is.
I do not know all the sins I committed yesterday, let alone all year.
It says I do not live as my old self. That is impossible. Because my focus is on others, not self. because my eternity is secure.
dude get over yourself and stop with your nonsense.
When have I ever said a person who has REAL saving faith will NOT HAVE WORKS?
This is your third and last warning. I do not give an audience to lyers who keep slandering others with false truths.
The people of Heb 11 are people who had real saving faith, they were really saved by that faith, And out of THAT REAL FAITH, they worked, ALL OF GODS CHILDREN WORK, because THEY ALL HAVE REAL FAITH.
Next time you claim I or anyone like me is excusing sin, or says works are nonsens. You will be placed on ignore with the rest of the liars.
and you can remember every sin you made in a year? Get real man, that answer tells me you do not understand what sin is.
I do not know all the sins I committed yesterday, let alone all year.
It says I do not live as my old self. That is impossible. Because my focus is on others, not self. because my eternity is secure.
dude get over yourself and stop with your nonsense.
When have I ever said a person who has REAL saving faith will NOT HAVE WORKS?
This is your third and last warning. I do not give an audience to lyers who keep slandering others with false truths.
The people of Heb 11 are people who had real saving faith, they were really saved by that faith, And out of THAT REAL FAITH, they worked, ALL OF GODS CHILDREN WORK, because THEY ALL HAVE REAL FAITH.
Next time you claim I or anyone like me is excusing sin, or says works are nonsens. You will be placed on ignore with the rest of the liars.
Please don't think to talk down to me. If you want to put me on ignore then do it. I don't require your particular approval or engagement. We're equal in the eyes of God buddy. My approval comes from God in heaven as should be the case with everyone here. You engaged me remember?
I've stuck to the subject matter. When I've actually directly accused or labeled you or anyone of something then you'll have course to be offended. I have no problem saying exactly what I mean. I don't need to dance around what I hope to say, and I back up everything I say, but I'm not here to accuse or judge. I'm here to reason through the scriptures in the bible study room as I've done for years. So far I'm the one who's actually received all manner of labels and accusations in these exchanges.
I've stayed on point and showed scripture that after one is saved by God they/we have work to do in response, all wrapping back to my original point that a person can be un-saved through their own choice & actions in willful disobedience to God after coming to the truth.
If you don't wish to engage me anymore then you're free not to. Go with God. Be blessed. But don't think you can threaten me here with ignore.
I've stuck to the subject matter. When I've actually directly accused or labeled you or anyone of something then you'll have course to be offended. I have no problem saying exactly what I mean. I don't need to dance around what I hope to say, and I back up everything I say, but I'm not here to accuse or judge. I'm here to reason through the scriptures in the bible study room as I've done for years. So far I'm the one who's actually received all manner of labels and accusations in these exchanges.
I've stayed on point and showed scripture that after one is saved by God they/we have work to do in response, all wrapping back to my original point that a person can be un-saved through their own choice & actions in willful disobedience to God after coming to the truth.
If you don't wish to engage me anymore then you're free not to. Go with God. Be blessed. But don't think you can threaten me here with ignore.
E
Oh no. You do not get off that easy, If your going to slander people. then be a man and live up to it. You have now at least three times claimed that I believe that a person can be saved and continue in sin, or not have works. I am sick of your lies. So lets see if you can be a man and repent of your sin, or will you continue to blame shift?
You want people to treat you like an equal. Then stop lying about them!!
You want people to treat you like an equal. Then stop lying about them!!
But please look again. Asking a question and mocking (such as talking around a person or deriding them or teasing them) are two different things. The point of my question was, there shouldn't be many unknown sins for a christian because it's already assumed they're converted and trying to live their lives right...but God made a provision for any unknown sins too. But one still has to follow the process through.
How did they did this before Christ?
Lay hands and confess their known sins over a sacrifice ("lord forgive me for doing x,y,z,a,b,c...etc.). For unknown sins they lay hands and confess their unknown sins over a sacrifice ("lord if there be any sin I committed that I don't know about please forgive me").
How do we do this now after Christ?
In prayer confess your known sins to Christ ("lord forgive me for doing x,y,z,a,b,c...etc.). For unknown sins, in prayer we confess our unknown sins to Christ ("lord if there be any sin I committed that I don't know about please forgive me").
But what changed is we no longer have to offer sacrifice in this new priesthood. When Christ ascended we could now come boldly before the throne of grace to obtain mercy (Heb 4:16). We still must confess these sins to God (1 John 1:9) and any sins to each other (James 5:16).
Note that these are new testament commands to believers.
How did they did this before Christ?
Lay hands and confess their known sins over a sacrifice ("lord forgive me for doing x,y,z,a,b,c...etc.). For unknown sins they lay hands and confess their unknown sins over a sacrifice ("lord if there be any sin I committed that I don't know about please forgive me").
How do we do this now after Christ?
In prayer confess your known sins to Christ ("lord forgive me for doing x,y,z,a,b,c...etc.). For unknown sins, in prayer we confess our unknown sins to Christ ("lord if there be any sin I committed that I don't know about please forgive me").
But what changed is we no longer have to offer sacrifice in this new priesthood. When Christ ascended we could now come boldly before the throne of grace to obtain mercy (Heb 4:16). We still must confess these sins to God (1 John 1:9) and any sins to each other (James 5:16).
Note that these are new testament commands to believers.
Show me where I've said, "Eternally Gratefull, you believe a person can be saved and continue to sin or not have works". Access my posts on my profile and show me where I've said that or insinuated it. Show me where I've slandered or called you names or labeled you or accused you of anything. Show me where I've lied about you. Should be easy to do because I only started posting again this week. I'm very clear on how I post. I stick to the subject. I challenge your arguments. You can believe whatever you want as we're all free to. But I'm going to challenge your arguments in keeping with the rules here as I've always done.
What I will say is whatever's going on is internal. And it's clear you're angry.
Be mindful what spirit you're of.
What I will say is whatever's going on is internal. And it's clear you're angry.
Be mindful what spirit you're of.
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And I'll post a whole chapter again to prove a point I'm making. I'll post scripture as many times as necessary during argument in this room. I don't concern myself with what you believe. I focus specifically on what you say/post, not on what you don't say. I encourage you to do the same friend. Shall we continue with the point I was making or continue with what wasn't said?
---
TALKING TO GB, I said,
You then appeared to disagree saying,
...showing, to me at least, that either you didn't understand or agree with the point I made that Israel's action and faith are linked together, prompting me to post proof that faith and action are ALWAYS linked together. And though Israel was saved from Egypt, that generation still died because of a lack of faith (which is acting in obedience).
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Now so I don't misunderstand you, and so you don't think I think the wrong thought you have offending you with unsaid words in my mind, I'll ask you directly:
Do you agree or disagree that Israel's unbelief = a lack of action in obedience to God at the entrance to the promise land?
E
And I'll post a whole chapter again to prove a point I'm making. I'll post scripture as many times as necessary during argument in this room. I don't concern myself with what you believe. I focus specifically on what you say/post, not on what you don't say. I encourage you to do the same friend. Shall we continue with the point I was making or continue with what wasn't said?
no my friend, your the one who does not understand. As i have said a few times, you have some odd fascination with works, and refuse to look at the root or the cause of the works.
Anyway, my response
1. as i said, doing what you did you have to “assume” i believe faith can be seperate from works. Thats wrong and i have asked you numerous times to stop.
2. As I said, they did not enter because the did not have faith, if they had faith they would not have complained, not griped, not asked Arron to creat a golden calf to worship, They continued to live in sin, because they had no faith (did not believ as i said)
3. If they believed, they would have acted like moses, and the others who had true faith, and trusted God, in trusting god, works or fruit would have been the result.
works procede from faith, anyone who has faith will work.
Do i need to explain myself again? Please let me know
No, You have it backwards, your failing to see the root if the problem the root is not failure to act, it is failure to trust or have faith.
i believe lack of action in obedience is the RESULT of unbelief. One whomsins has never seen God or known hom as john said in 1John 3. Any questions?