How to defeat Calvinism
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In our previous discussion, I raised several example in Scripture that refers to the 'world' as any aggregate group. Let's try to reason with a few verses:
Did Jesus ever once in His ministry, travel the entire world? Did everybody, everywhere hear Jesus personally speak and teach in the synagogues? Did Jesus sail over seas to the Americas, and to the Bahamas? Or does 'world' make reference to the multitude that heard Jesus speak? 'World' in this passage is in reference to those that heard Jesus speak, not everybody, everywhere, but to the world of Jews, 'I always taught in and in temple, where the Jews come together; and I spoke nothing in secret.'
Likewise, as above, were the apostles seen by the whole world, as in everybody, everywhere? Or does it refer to a group of people that had seen the apostles?
'We' are of God, and yet the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. As you said in a previous post, believers are not of this world. So then if believers are not of this world, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one, who might this be in reference to? Is it in reference to everybody, everywhere? Is it in reference to genuine believers? Are the saints under the dominion of the wicked one? Or does 'whole world' refer to everyone except believers? If you say it refers to everyone but believers, then you would testify that 'whole world' really doesn't mean 'everybody, everywhere,' because it excludes a body of people -- believers. After all, it does say, 'whole world.' Also refer to Revelation 12:9, which says, ''And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.' Notice that in Revelation 13:8, it says that those who are not found in the Book of Life will worship the beast, implying that those who are found in the Book of Life will not worship him.
So unless you are suggesting that literally everybody, everywhere, including believers are under the dominion of Satan, then you are forced to believe that 'world' does not mean 'everybody, everywhere.'
In regards to John 3:16, 'world' refers to a particular group of people. God so loved the world that He gave eternal life to everybody... or to a specific group of people? He gives eternal life to all the believing. All the believing have eternal life.
"Jesus answered him, 'I have spoken openly to the world; I always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all the Jews come together; and I spoke nothing in secret.'" -- John 18:20
Did Jesus ever once in His ministry, travel the entire world? Did everybody, everywhere hear Jesus personally speak and teach in the synagogues? Did Jesus sail over seas to the Americas, and to the Bahamas? Or does 'world' make reference to the multitude that heard Jesus speak? 'World' in this passage is in reference to those that heard Jesus speak, not everybody, everywhere, but to the world of Jews, 'I always taught in and in temple, where the Jews come together; and I spoke nothing in secret.'
For, I think, God has exhibited us apostles last of all, as men condemned to death; because we have become a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men. -- 1 Corinthians 4:9
'We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.' -- 1 John 5:19
So unless you are suggesting that literally everybody, everywhere, including believers are under the dominion of Satan, then you are forced to believe that 'world' does not mean 'everybody, everywhere.'
In regards to John 3:16, 'world' refers to a particular group of people. God so loved the world that He gave eternal life to everybody... or to a specific group of people? He gives eternal life to all the believing. All the believing have eternal life.
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Whoever God chooses to have mercy on. I don't know who the elect are per se, for if I did, I would limit my work to them, because aside from them, it is useless to everyone else.
But for the sake of the elect, as the apostle Paul put it, [/FONT]
Whoever God chooses to have mercy on. I don't know who the elect are per se, for if I did, I would limit my work to them, because aside from them, it is useless to everyone else.
But for the sake of the elect, as the apostle Paul put it, [/FONT]
You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. Suffer hardship with me, as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. No soldier in active service entangles himself in the affairs of everyday life, so that he may please the one who enlisted him as a soldier. Also if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules. The hard-working farmer ought to be the first to receive his share of the crops. Consider what I say, for the Lord will give you understanding in everything. Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, descendant of David, according to my gospel, for which I suffer hardship even to imprisonment as a criminal; but the word of God is not imprisoned. For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory. It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. -- 2 Timothy 2:1-13
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and Moses said, "thus says the Lord. let my people go and God hardened Pharaohs heart" i figured by this time Pharaoh was happy to let them go just God wasn't finished in what He wanted to do and show His people. God is God. Why He does things the way he does them who am i to say, can the clay tell the potter. Our focus should be Jesus and the Cross at Calvary
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No, I don't change the definitions. 'Kosmos' is a Greek term, and one of the definitions given is 'Any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort.' It's usually your Lexicons that even cite these verses, which, some of these verses I've borrowed from to prove a point. The problem is that you try to apply the English meaning to a Greek word. You can't do that, in order to find out what it really is saying, you have to apply the Greek definition to the Greek word, not vise versa. So unless you suggest that Greek scholars don't know what they're talking about, then perhaps you shouldn't even trust the translators of your Bible.
You people in the free will camp suggest that 'world' means 'everybody, everywhere,' so then if that's so, then even Satan has power over you. So either 'world' really means 'everybody, everywhere,' or then it refers to a particular group of people, in this case, those not written in the Book of Life.
You people in the free will camp suggest that 'world' means 'everybody, everywhere,' so then if that's so, then even Satan has power over you. So either 'world' really means 'everybody, everywhere,' or then it refers to a particular group of people, in this case, those not written in the Book of Life.
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Finding the more abstract meaning and then using it universally is a misuse of the language. I would suggest that if you want to make an argument from the Koine that you actually study it. Otherwise this kind of reinterpretation will go on all the time. Kosmos is a different word than "Laos", which is the word for people. It is different for a reason. You should consider why the word "cosmos" is used. If God had meant the elect, he would have used an adjectival version of "caleo".
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If you're going to fight with Greek, perhaps you should break John 3:16 down, and tell the 'world' (not 'everyone, everywhere,' but the users of ChristianChat.com) what it really says, in the Greek, word-for-word. Then perhaps, you'll find it goes against your traditional, 'whosoever will' bologna.
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wow! GraceBeunto you... do you truly KNOW & UNDERSTAND grace? perhaps it should be gracebeuntome. I'm saved & when you KNOW salvation you KNOW... pick apart the translations of the Bible... discredit the translators of old. I love the Lord my God and he has shown his love for me & I FEEL his love for me. Pick apart the passages but perhaps your time would be better spent Loving, trusting & knowing the Lord instead of picking apart the faith of Gods children. Thats all I got to say about this.
To all the seekers out there, know that my testimony is that I was the most undeserving of Gods mercy but I received it when I received the Lord. There are toxic teachings out there that would have one believe that God chooses only certain people to come to him. If you are seeking the Lord continue to seek the Lord. For he is our heavenly father and the love of God which is in Christ Jesus is open to ALL who would receive Him. Dont stop seeking the Lord because you are misinformed into thinking that somehow God's already choosen who he's choosen & everyone else can go to hell. This is not my Lord, this is a misinterpretation of my God's word. Bless all the seekers that you find the redemption that I received, me, a liar, a thief, a murderer, a fornicator... What a disgusting wretch I was... washed white as snow in an instant by my beautiful precious Lord who I love eternally for that!!! why oh why would the Lord choose me? I'm not even Jewish!! 
Bless your hearts as you seek.
Bless your hearts as you seek.
L
To all the seekers out there, know that my testimony is that I was the most undeserving of Gods mercy but I received it when I received the Lord. There are toxic teachings out there that would have one believe that God chooses only certain people to come to him. If you are seeking the Lord continue to seek the Lord. For he is our heavenly father and the love of God which is in Christ Jesus is open to ALL who would receive Him. Dont stop seeking the Lord because you are misinformed into thinking that somehow God's already choosen who he's choosen & everyone else can go to hell. This is not my Lord, this is a misinterpretation of my God's word. Bless all the seekers that you find the redemption that I received, me, a liar, a thief, a murderer, a fornicator... What a disgusting wretch I was... washed white as snow in an instant by my beautiful precious Lord who I love eternally for that!!! why oh why would the Lord choose me? I'm not even Jewish!! Bless your hearts as you seek.
Bless your hearts as you seek.
Ah the arrogance of me should I lift myself worthy of the lashes Christ endured, more worthy than another soul. For All are free to receive, I would never for a minute think I am in anyway more worthy of Gods mercy than any other soul on this earth. Twist scripture all you like but ALL are free to receive the gift of eternal life, the mercy & grace of the Lord Christ Jesus. Dont any of us for one minute think we are special. The only thing special about us is our purity in Christ ALONE.