I am righteous through the work of Christ Jesus

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#81
Curious..... first you put your "like" on his post, then lie & insult him?

I always wondered why you guys put your 'like' on certain posts, & then steer & twist the meanings of those posts. I now understand it's an approach to steer the subject to your liking & overturn the original intent of the writer.

This means you know where the writer was going, as well as where you are going. It means it was done with intent.

While PJ isn't perfect by no means,
1. That doesn't give you a God-given right to slander him, as you all do. Don't sin with slander thinking you will be forgiven for what you purposely did, planning in advance.
2. Don't twist his writings to say something it doesn't. If he is unrighteous for what he says, his own words will betray him. If he's as bad as you say he is, he doesn't need your help lying on him to make him look bad.
3. when you judge him, you're taking God's place, for it's God's responsibility to do that. You don't have that authority, no matter how much grace you claim.
4. You're only showing others how much more wicked you are by using lies & deceit to dismantle PJ's witness.

Everybody wants to expose PJ..... & with accusations they can't prove.
It's really looks more like a vendetta instead of an expose'. Much like the lies men used against Jesus they couldn't prove.

When one walks like a pharisee, talks like a pharisee, & deceives like a pharisee, they're a pharisee.

1Cor 15:3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.6After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;7then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. 9For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. 11Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

Because of grace we labor in the work of God. Paul said so because of grace, not using grace as an excuse to do whatever. The more grace, the more labor, & the more results.

Romans 8:37
English Standard Version
No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.

Berean Study Bible
No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.

Berean Literal Bible
But in all these things, we more than conquer through the One having loved us.

New American Standard Bible
But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.

King James Bible
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

1Cor 9:19For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. 20To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. 22To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. 23I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

Lots of 'becoming' & 'doing' & 'can do all things' in these verses.
Go ahead, prove the slander..

We will be waitiing patiently (and not expecting an answer)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#82
We will have to discuss this more because I disagree with this statement:

"If we are accountable for our actions, they are not just wiped away."

And the cross is meaningless.

Why bother die on a cross to atone for sin if the people who sinned can atone for it them elves.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#83
How very true. When we take our sins (those we are aware of and those we do not understand that we are committing) to Christ we are washed clean as snow as the old hymn tells us. Now we start our walk in the narrow road of the kingdom, keeping in the light and easy path of that kingdom.

Following the 119th psalm is following Christ. It needs to be so thoroughly in our minds and heart that we memorize the psalm.

Unfortunately you keep replacing Christ with the law of Moses. Read the law to see Jesus in it and not something you do to attain righteousness or life. The Law is a "shadow" but Christ is the real substance. When you look at a person's shadow - that is NOT the real person.

Christ is our righteousness and He is our life. Come on over into the New Covenant and hook up with your Lord.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#84
Have you ever considered your whole post is an attack upon them. Its basically character assassination. They may be responding to your passive-aggressive comments that basically condemn them as wolves and heretics?

As far as I can tell (and I only read 2 pages of "not by works" thread) they believe salvation is by grace alone and not by works.

I actually agree with them.

Works come after salvation. It is built upon the foundation which is Christ. If it's good, it will remain. If not good then it will burn up but the person will be saved.

The works is not just helping the poor but our theology of what we believe is good or evil. If our foundation is Christ, no matter if we get it right or wrong.,.if Christ is our foundation, God will save us.

When you start drilling holes in the foundation, you will have problems.
That has been the cruxt of the issue since Peter arrived in CC.

You can read his posts. and many times 90 to 95 percent of the stuff he posts seems spot on. It is the other 5 - 10 % that destroys the part he got right..

Thats what works based salvationist do. They have much truth mixed with a small amount of false truth.. thus teach a different gospel.

and if someone tries to show him the disagreement, They are attacking him.. then if you claim he misunderstands you.. Well again, You are attacking him..

Take this post..

We (Or I) are made righteous by the work of Christ. a 100 % truth.

But does the OP really believe that? I think we both can see by his posts that that is not the case.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#85
Salvation comes after we take our sins to Christ with repentance, then our Father has the power to save. No human has the power to achieve his own salvation by any means, including the work we do.
I see that a little differently.The Father had to power to save as the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world .The six days, the seventh we rest in His works.

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.Heb 4:1-4

Paraphrased ....Did not profit them, not being mixed with the faith of Christ, that worked in them to both will and do His good pleasure in those that heard it. For we which have believed, exercising the faith of Christ do enter into rest.

That does not mean that every one of the 176 verses of the 119th psalm is not the truth and every verse is about the blessings of the law, including our works to obey.
Repentance is a work of God not of or own selves.. No man can repent unless God does first work and turns them to make it possible to repent.

If Christ does not do all the work of creating a new creature, He does none..

I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God. Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.Jer 31:18

If salvation comes after we take our sins to Christ with repentance, it does flow from our work of repenting..And what we do the next time? ....Crucify Christ over and over.? What happens if a person dies before he repents.
 
Last edited:

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#86
The culture of unbelief and cynism

When I say I am perfect, holy, washed clean, pure, blameless, am I right or wrong?
According to Jesus I am right, because His blood has washed me clean, the Holy Spirit
dwells in His Holy temple, and I walk with a clean conscience.

Now those with unbelief and a cynical heart will say, fat chance.

But listen to scripture. Scripture declares Gods people walk in this state and live in this
state.

So those who take the cynical approach are living in unbelief about Gods testimony, and
are cynical without evidence.

Now if I say in the past I have stumbled, then immediately I am a liar.
This is because the state of fellowship with God is deemed a permanent one but
is actually only a pipe dream. The lie is fellowship is without learning, growth,
mistakes and problems. Read all the men of God, they all had issues, but overcame
them, grew through them.

So perfection, purity, holiness is a state of being, which can be defiled but is our
calling. When we stumble, he is faithful if we confess our sins we will gain forgiveness.

The enemy would love to create a cynical alternative, which denies the reality of
the walk, but maintains hypocrites who daily feel condemned yet believe they are
walking in the way.

So which are you prepared to do. Walk in the ways of Christ or stay in cynicism and
unbelief?
Jesus said to Peter at the foot washing that he was clean but needed His foot cleansing. That is our daily walk. We are clean by His Word of the blood of His Cross as far as our heart, but daily as far as our "works". For every day we come short of His Holiness in some way.

I do understand though a declaration of being righteous through the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. We aren't sinners anymore for we are a new creation of God. I think you are saying this by what I've read.

When we fall..its from grace. To build on another foundation would be our trying to do by our own efforts rather than by the power of Holy Spirit working in us. That too is grace...the divine influence in our life. That's what ship wrecking our faith is too...Hebrews warns of this. Only His blood will be our sacrifice for there is no other.

Our conscience itself is our warning of sinful actions. To not listen to it...we can become seared in heart. It wont prick us as it should.

Is how I view scriptures.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#87
Jesus said to Peter at the foot washing that he was clean but needed His foot cleansing. That is our daily walk. We are clean by His Word of the blood of His Cross as far as our heart, but daily as far as our "works". For every day we come short of His Holiness in some way.

I do understand though a declaration of being righteous through the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. We aren't sinners anymore for we are a new creation of God. I think you are saying this by what I've read.

When we fall..its from grace. To build on another foundation would be our trying to do by our own efforts rather than by the power of Holy Spirit working in us. That too is grace...the divine influence in our life. That's what ship wrecking our faith is too...Hebrews warns of this. Only His blood will be our sacrifice for there is no other.

Our conscience itself is our warning of sinful actions. To not listen to it...we can become seared in heart. It wont prick us as it should.

Is how I view scriptures.
My heart is a strange place. I wake and expect to wake to fellowship with the Lord.
Yet I need to prepare and enter into His presence. It is not I do not know how to, or
that it is a problem, it appears to be a reality I need to enter in, an act of the will,
to affirm my faith and belief in my Lord.

Intellectually I always strain at this. Why is it significant for me to do this?
Because it is all about claiming the moment, choosing to be with the Lord, to demonstrate
love and reaching out, because being passive is denial, or in someway neutral, and letting
it flow away.

When I look at creation, that reflects Gods nature, it is always exploring, always seeking
the new, different alternatives, taking in the moment and seeing opportunity everywhere.

Maybe our problem is we want to arrive, rather than with the Lord, it is always exploring,
so there is never arriving, it is flowing in life itself. Our natures seek security and safety,
the Lord seeks ways of displaying beauty and love, without regard to the cost or risk.
We constrain the Lord, set boundaries and He delights in turning them on its head.

The Magi, a medium for Samuel to talk to Saul, Balaams ass, Melchizedek, Rahab,
Mary and Joseph, Samson. None of these conformist or linked people, extreme situations,
with unusual solutions, a prophet is told one thing then killed for not following it.

The Lord weaves His truth throughout history, and we do not see it.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#88
Jesus said to Peter at the foot washing that he was clean but needed His foot cleansing. That is our daily walk. We are clean by His Word of the blood of His Cross as far as our heart, but daily as far as our "works". For every day we come short of His Holiness in some way.

I do understand though a declaration of being righteous through the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. We aren't sinners anymore for we are a new creation of God. I think you are saying this by what I've read.

When we fall..its from grace. To build on another foundation would be our trying to do by our own efforts rather than by the power of Holy Spirit working in us. That too is grace...the divine influence in our life. That's what ship wrecking our faith is too...Hebrews warns of this. Only His blood will be our sacrifice for there is no other.

Our conscience itself is our warning of sinful actions. To not listen to it...we can become seared in heart. It wont prick us as it should.

Is how I view scriptures.
Amen, No other foundation can I lay than that which is in Christ

When we start to move Christ work to the background and move our work to the foreground.. .we are in serious trouble, because we have strayed from that one foundation.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#89
My heart is a strange place. I wake and expect to wake to fellowship with the Lord.
Yet I need to prepare and enter into His presence. It is not I do not know how to, or
that it is a problem, it appears to be a reality I need to enter in, an act of the will,
to affirm my faith and belief in my Lord.

Intellectually I always strain at this. Why is it significant for me to do this?
Because it is all about claiming the moment, choosing to be with the Lord, to demonstrate
love and reaching out, because being passive is denial, or in someway neutral, and letting
it flow away.

When I look at creation, that reflects Gods nature, it is always exploring, always seeking
the new, different alternatives, taking in the moment and seeing opportunity everywhere.

Maybe our problem is we want to arrive, rather than with the Lord, it is always exploring,
so there is never arriving, it is flowing in life itself. Our natures seek security and safety,
the Lord seeks ways of displaying beauty and love, without regard to the cost or risk.
We constrain the Lord, set boundaries and He delights in turning them on its head.

The Magi, a medium for Samuel to talk to Saul, Balaams ass, Melchizedek, Rahab,
Mary and Joseph, Samson. None of these conformist or linked people, extreme situations,
with unusual solutions, a prophet is told one thing then killed for not following it.

The Lord weaves His truth throughout history, and we do not see it.
I don't understand some of your post Peter, but I do understand the feeling of needing to seek His presence, read His Word, and to fellowship daily. Its a good thing to do...but there is a higher way. Jesus prayed that we would see it and receive it.

When we know we are one with Him. This understanding didn't come to me until recently. If we experience guilt for not spending what we deem quality time with Him....then we are seeing ourselves separate from Him. No need to fear even this...I do believe we grow into all things as He leads.

We live, move, and have our very being "in Him".
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#90
Also...am not saying not to do those things of fellowshipping with the Lord. Please don't misunderstand me.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#91
That has been the cruxt of the issue since Peter arrived in CC.

You can read his posts. and many times 90 to 95 percent of the stuff he posts seems spot on. It is the other 5 - 10 % that destroys the part he got right..

Thats what works based salvationist do. They have much truth mixed with a small amount of false truth.. thus teach a different gospel.

and if someone tries to show him the disagreement, They are attacking him.. then if you claim he misunderstands you.. Well again, You are attacking him..

Take this post..

We (Or I) are made righteous by the work of Christ. a 100 % truth.

But does the OP really believe that? I think we both can see by his posts that that is not the case.
God bless you. Thank you for highlighting what I believe, and anyone can read what I believe.
I am not sure highlighting my faith and shinning a light on it, helps the cause to bring me down,
but thank you friend for helping me, Praise the Lord and glory to His name.

In everything God brings glory to His name and His work in our lives.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#92
Also...am not saying not to do those things of fellowshipping with the Lord. Please don't misunderstand me.
What I am talking about is how my heart reacts before the Lord.
I come in fuzzy, expecting to walk into His presence, but it is I who need to prepare
myself to enter before the Lord. The Lord waits for me to ask, to open my door, to invite
Him in, though He is the King of Kings, He has no presumption. I am truly humbled and
need to bow in Praise before the throne of Grace.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#93
Have you ever considered your whole post is an attack upon them. Its basically character assassination. They may be responding to your passive-aggressive comments that basically condemn them as wolves and heretics?

As far as I can tell (and I only read 2 pages of "not by works" thread) they believe salvation is by grace alone and not by works.

I actually agree with them.

Works come after salvation. It is built upon the foundation which is Christ. If it's good, it will remain. If not good then it will burn up but the person will be saved.

The works is not just helping the poor but our theology of what we believe is good or evil. If our foundation is Christ, no matter if we get it right or wrong.,.if Christ is our foundation, God will save us.

When you start drilling holes in the foundation, you will have problems.
is this post addressed to me? you don't say, so i'll just be certain.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#94
No zone...pretty sure everyone knows it's directed to Peter, why?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#95
What I am talking about is how my heart reacts before the Lord.
I come in fuzzy, expecting to walk into His presence, but it is I who need to prepare
myself to enter before the Lord. The Lord waits for me to ask, to open my door, to invite
Him in, though He is the King of Kings, He has no presumption. I am truly humbled and
need to bow in Praise before the throne of Grace.
It's part of God's unconditional love.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#96
That has been the cruxt of the issue since Peter arrived in CC.

You can read his posts. and many times 90 to 95 percent of the stuff he posts seems spot on. It is the other 5 - 10 % that destroys the part he got right..

Thats what works based salvationist do. They have much truth mixed with a small amount of false truth.. thus teach a different gospel.

and if someone tries to show him the disagreement, They are attacking him.. then if you claim he misunderstands you.. Well again, You are attacking him..

Take this post..

We (Or I) are made righteous by the work of Christ. a 100 % truth.

But does the OP really believe that? I think we both can see by his posts that that is not the case.
Unconditional love is a hard concept to understand and completely believe unless they have been blessed to have someone in their life display it towards them.

Until grace is more than just a word or mental concept,
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#97
No zone...pretty sure everyone knows it's directed to Peter, why?
I'm only half paying attn., and your post directly followed mine, with no name attached.

 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#98
What I am talking about is how my heart reacts before the Lord.
I come in fuzzy, expecting to walk into His presence, but it is I who need to prepare
myself to enter before the Lord. The Lord waits for me to ask, to open my door, to invite
Him in, though He is the King of Kings, He has no presumption. I am truly humbled and
need to bow in Praise before the throne of Grace.
interesting how different we all are. I don't think I've ever thought about things like this. I just talk to Him.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#99
Unfortunately you keep replacing Christ with the law of Moses. Read the law to see Jesus in it and not something you do to attain righteousness or life. The Law is a "shadow" but Christ is the real substance. When you look at a person's shadow - that is NOT the real person.

Christ is our righteousness and He is our life. Come on over into the New Covenant and hook up with your Lord.
Are you saying that if we believe in scripture as written in psalms we must deny scripture that relates to the saving grace of God?


Where do you find that I have replaced Christ with the law of Moses?
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
Unfortunately you keep replacing Christ with the law of Moses. Read the law to see Jesus in it and not something you do to attain righteousness or life. The Law is a "shadow" but Christ is the real substance. When you look at a person's shadow - that is NOT the real person.

Christ is our righteousness and He is our life. Come on over into the New Covenant and hook up with your Lord.
I want just to make a quick observation.
If David in the Psalms is praising God and this is the inspiration of someones spiritual
insight, Law of Moses, OT, old covenant.

This is not seeing spiritual realities and God has not changed but our access to Him
has. David knew God, in a way that is similar to born again believers. It is why the
psalms speaks to the heart of so many. Vast swaths of our hymns, choruses come
from this book. It is to the glory of God and Christ that we take this inspiration and
life Praise to His name.