I refuse to discount one scripture's truth to accept another.

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prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#61
I refuse to discount one scripture's truth to accept another.
“Hear me, thou Jeroboam, and all Israel; Ought ye not to know that
the [Eternal] God of Israel gave the kingdom over Israel to David for ever,
even to him and to his sons[plural] by a covenant of salt?”

The margin says “perpetual covenant.” This shows the establishing of the throne was
then in the past! God gave, did give, this kingdom to David and his sons—not his Son,
Christ, but his sons, plural—continuously forever. [ in Solomon ]

“I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
Thy seed [dynasty] will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations”

-Established to All Generations

This throne, established forever, was built up to all generations. God did
establish that throne, beginning with David and Solomon. We have a record
of it for a number of generations, as far as King Zedekiah, 585 b.c.

“My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.”

It was established to all generations, continuously, perpetually, forever!
That term “all generations” certainly must include those generations from
Zedekiah to the birth of Christ.

This is speaking of David’s seed, or David’s sons. His sons were to be kings.
David was of the tribe of Judah, possessor of the scepter, not the birthright,
promise. His “seed,” therefore, was the kingly line. So, literally, it means
his dynasty, his line of successive sons.

“If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; If they break my statutes,
and keep not my commandments; Then will I visit their transgression with the rod,
and their iniquity with stripes.

Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness
to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. His seed [dynasty] shall
endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me. It shall be established for ever as
the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven” (Psalm 89:30-37).

If the children disobey and transgress, they shall be punished for their transgression
—but not by the breaking of God’s unconditional covenant with David!

“Thus saith the [Eternal]; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the
night, and that there should not be day and night in their season; Then may also my covenant
be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne…”

“Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which
the [Eternal] hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people,
that they should be no more a nation before them”
 

BaptistBibleBeliever

Well-known member
Sep 9, 2018
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#62
Jeremiah's strange commission? It isn't in the bible?
Not in those words. All the prophets of God were commissioned by God to deliver His mail to the rejecting people. Armstrong is trying to create a distinction where none exists.

We are being told that there are only three individuals to whom God commissioned them before their birth, well here are a couple more . . . and you can bet there are others.

The man that was born blind . . .

"And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him" (John 9:1-3).

The Apostle Paul

"But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood" (Galatians 1:15-16).
 

BaptistBibleBeliever

Well-known member
Sep 9, 2018
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#63
“I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
Thy seed [dynasty] will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations”
The word 'dynasty' is used here only so that they can manipulate history and claim that the kings of Europe are now the continuation of the Jewish kingdom. Utter heresy.

The Jews' kingdom has been stopped until such time as God deems it is time to reestablish David's throne - IN ISRAEL -- nowhere else.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
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#64
Are you asking if there are any one that believed in eternal security before 1960?

Here are a few books from my library . . .

Chafer, Lewis Sperry-Salvation-© 1917

Guthrie, Thomas - THE GOSPEL IN EZEKIEL: Illustrated in a Series of Discourses on Chapter 36 - © 1862

Hutchens, Paul-Know-So Christian: ""I know whom I have believed""-© 1933

Ironside, Harry-Full Assurance-© 1937

Scofield, Cyrus I. - The New Life In Christ Jesus - © 1915

Van Gorder, John J. - ABC'S OF SALVATION - © 1946

As to the New Age movement, that is something that came about in the 1980's and just another in a long line of cults.

When you say 'baptism not required', are you saying as opposed to the cult teachings of the Church of Christ that one can only be saved by being baptized? There have been writings opposing this heresy for as long as that group has been around.
No...I am asking what I am asking....?

If you are not familiar with the terms ....then I doubt you have references.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#66
What does this have to do with winning the lost to Christ?
Where does it say in the Bible you commission is to win the lost to Christ. There again is Catholic Church doctrine. If God were trying to save everyone, everyone would be saved. God isn't doing that, right now. He wants everyone to hear the gospel. The gospel you and yours have perverted into something like: get as many saved as you can. The gospel that Jesus taught is not the story about Jesus, it is the message Jesus brought. The real gospel was about the kingdom of God. To be preached globally as a witness.

Matt. 24:14
"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." :cool:
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#67
The word 'dynasty' is used here only so that they can manipulate history and claim that the kings of Europe are now the continuation of the Jewish kingdom. Utter heresy.

The Jews' kingdom has been stopped until such time as God deems it is time to reestablish David's throne - IN ISRAEL -- nowhere else.
So what of God’s sceptre promise to Judah, as given by Jacob in Genesis 49:10? “The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto Him shall the gathering of the people be.”

Does God let go of a promise because of captivity?

Consider: “Thy word is true from the beginning: And every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever” (Psalms 119:160).

History states that Zarah’s descendants became seafarers and wanderers, traveling north within the Scythian nations. Later, these descendants migrated to Ireland during King David’s days; around 1000 B.C.

Irish history also stated that in 569 BC, a white-haired patriarch referred to as a saint came there. With him were his companion Simon Brach and a princess named Tea-Tephi. This was Jeremiah, Baruch his secretary and one of Zedekiah’s daughters.

I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: And it shall be no more, until He come whose right it is; and I will give it Him. (Ezekiel 21:27).

Jeremiah had already pulled down the sceptre from Judah, the first overturn. He was here to plant and build up the new throne. With Jeremiah was the son of the king of Ireland; he was in Jerusalem at the time of the downfall. He already knew Tea-Tephi and married her after the city fell. By the time they got to Ireland, they had a 12 year old son with them.

Jeremiah also brought with him a stone called “lia-fail” or “stone of destiny.” History told us that many kings of Ireland, Scotland and England had been coronated sitting over this stone. This included the present Queen, and today the stone sits in Westminster Abbey in London. The stone had the coronation chair built over and around it, and a sign beside it reads “Jacob’s pillar-stone.”

The Irish husband of Tea-Tephi ascended the throne of his father and was given the name Herremon. Their son took over the throne, and it continued unbroken through all the kings of Ireland. Later, it was overturned and moved to Scotland. It was again overturned and moved to London, England, where it remains unto this day. The British Commonwealth of Nations filled exactly the birthright blessings of Ephraim in prophecy. :cool:
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#68
The word 'dynasty' is used here only so that they can manipulate history and claim that the kings of Europe are now the continuation of the Jewish kingdom. Utter heresy.

The Jews' kingdom has been stopped until such time as God deems it is time to reestablish David's throne - IN ISRAEL -- nowhere else.
AMEN......there is only 1 KING left to sit on the throne of David and his name is JESUS...........it is utter ridiculous to say that some imaginary lineage of KINGS are in ruling some secret kingdom from Europe..........
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
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#69
The word 'dynasty' is used here only so that they can manipulate history and claim
that the kings of Europe are now the continuation of the Jewish kingdom. Utter heresy.

The Jews' kingdom has been stopped until such time as God deems it is time
to reestablish David's throne - IN ISRAEL -- nowhere else.
“Thus saith the [Eternal]; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the
night, and that there should not be day and night in their season; Then may also my covenant
be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne…”

Strong words, those! Unless you can stop this old Earth from turning on its axis,
unless you can remove the sun and the moon and stars from heaven, says the Almighty,
you cannot prevent Him from keeping His covenant to maintain continuously, through
all generations, forever, from the time of David and Solomon, a descendant of David
in one continuous dynasty on that throne!
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#70
“Thus saith the [Eternal]; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the
night, and that there should not be day and night in their season; Then may also my covenant
be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne…”

Strong words, those! Unless you can stop this old Earth from turning on its axis,
unless you can remove the sun and the moon and stars from heaven, says the Almighty,
you cannot prevent Him from keeping His covenant to maintain continuously, through
all generations, forever, from the time of David and Solomon, a descendant of David
in one continuous dynasty on that throne!
You know prove-all I missed it but my son said Prince Harry one time said "We are Jews." Have you heard of this? :unsure:
 

BaptistBibleBeliever

Well-known member
Sep 9, 2018
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#71
You know prove-all I missed it but my son said Prince Harry one time said "We are Jews." Have you heard of this? :unsure:
He was probably high from one of his all night drug parties. He probably even saw god and realized he was John Lennon.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
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#74
You know prove-all I missed it but my son said Prince Harry one time said
"We are Jews." Have you heard of this? :unsure:
Sorry no, I did not hear that about the Prince.
I do know the monarchy is sliding down hill fast.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,693
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#76
“Thus saith the [Eternal]; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the
night, and that there should not be day and night in their season; Then may also my covenant
be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne…”

Strong words, those! Unless you can stop this old Earth from turning on its axis,
unless you can remove the sun and the moon and stars from heaven, says the Almighty,
you cannot prevent Him from keeping His covenant to maintain continuously, through
all generations, forever, from the time of David and Solomon, a descendant of David
in one continuous dynasty on that throne!
Wasn't He speaking of Yeshua, Son of David, and His everlasting Kingship?
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
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#77
Wasn't He speaking of Yeshua, Son of David, and His everlasting Kingship?
David succeeded Saul. David sat on the Eternal’s throne. David’s son Solomon
succeeded him, also sitting on the Eternal’s throne.(1 Chronicles 29:23;2 Chron 9:8).

2 Samuel 23:1, 5,“Now these be the last words of David."God hath made with me
an everlasting covenant,ordered in all things, and sure” 2 Samuel 7:4-5,12-16

12And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers,
I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels,
and I will establish his kingdom.

He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
“Then Solomon sat on the throne of the [Eternal] as king instead of David his father”

David’s throne was set up and established with Solomon, (verse 16)
—was established forever in Solomon (verse 13)

What if Solomon, or the children of Israel, disobey? God will chasten them
with the rod of men, but will not break this covenant.

God will not take the throne away as He took it from Saul.

14I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity,
I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

“Hear me, thou Jeroboam, and all Israel; Ought ye not to know that
the [Eternal] God of Israel gave the kingdom over Israel to David for ever,
even to him and to his sons[plural] by a covenant of salt?”

“I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant, Thy seed
will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations” (Psalm 89:3-4).

8Blessed be the Lord thy God, which delighted in thee to set thee on his throne,
to be king for the Lord thy God: because thy God loved Israel, to establish them
for ever, therefore made he thee king over them, to do judgment and justice.

“And I will wait upon the Lord, [that hideth his face] from the house of Jacob….”
-

Jesus is both the “root” and the “offspring” of David (Revelation 22:16).
Since He was the “root,” the throne was His before David was born. David merely
sat upon the Eternal’s throne. But the throne was given to David and sons by covenant.

Secondly, since Jesus was David’s lawful Son, this same throne shall once more
become His right by inheritance, continuing David’s dynasty. And so, when Christ
returns to Earth, David’s throne will be doubly His right!


He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country
to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#78
They are flat taking the truth about the Scepter not departing from Judah way too literal....the context of that is simple...JUDAH will always be the reigning tribe over Jerusalem and Israel...the throne of David is perpetually given unto Judah dia the lineage and house of David<----this perpetual throne has been established by JESUS as a) The SON of David b) The eternal King of JUDAH/Israel.........points they blew right over....

a. Jesus thou SON of DAVID have mercy on me.
b. Both Joseph and Mary were tied to the lineage of faith/Judah
c. Jesus was of the tribe of Judah
d. YOUR KING comes riding in on a LOWLY ASS
e. All three languages above the cross ....THE KING of the JEWS
f. Once JESUS was born NO ONE had right to the throne and HE is the only one with right to the throne
g. HE RULES over ISRAEL right now as the apple of his eye
h. HE stands primarily at the end of the age to DEFEND his KINGDOM, THRONE and CITY as he gathers ALL nations against JERUSALEM to Battle and seeks to destroy the enemies of his PEOPLE as the KING

and these were just off the top of my head.........YEAH JUDAH/ ISRAEL has a KING that rules over them and he is the LION of the TRIBE OF JUDAH the KING of kings and LORD of lords and he is ALL GOD and was ALL MAN!!!!!!!!!!
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#79
Christ is at the right hand of God,
He is not sitting on Davids throne at this time.
Davids throne was a physical throne on earth, not heaven.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
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#80
The word 'dynasty' is used here only so that they can manipulate history and claim that
the kings of Europe are now the continuation of the Jewish kingdom. Utter heresy.

The Jews' kingdom has been stopped until such time as God deems it
is time to reestablish David's throne - IN ISRAEL -- nowhere else.
IN ISRAEL? The country called Israel today is miss applied.

The house of Judah- decedents are back in the holy land.
The house of Israel- is not back in there land.
Israel became A state, but is not the no. kingdom of Israel.

The Jews are prophesied to lose Jerusalem and the rest of their land in the latter days.
Judah received the septer promise,but Israel received the birthright promises.-
-

“By myself have I sworn, saith the [Eternal], for because thou hast done this thing,
and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: That in blessing I will bless thee,
and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand
which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gates of his enemies.

The birthright promise now is unconditional.

This legacy guaranteed on the authority of God Almighty, unconditionally, multitudinous
population, untold wealth and material resources, national greatness and world power!
-

“And now thy two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were
born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I came unto thee into
Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine”


The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads;
and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers
Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the
midst of the earth” (verses 14-16).

“Joseph is a fruitful bough,even a fruitful bough by a well; whose
branches [margin, daughters] run over the wall” (verse 22).

“[T]he Almighty … shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the
deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb: The blessings of thy
father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound
of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the
head of him that was separate from his brethren”.

Genesis 48, Abraham’s grandson Jacob—whom God renamed Israel—
specifically assigned his name to Ephraim and Manasseh, saying that
one of these descendants would become a “great” people (the United States),
and that the other would become a “multitude of nations” (Great Britain).
-
recap of God’s Promises to Abraham's seed, or physical descendants
¦Genesis 12:1-2 | God promises Abraham that his descendants will become a great nation.
¦Genesis 17:1-6 | God promises Abraham will be a father of many nations, not just one.
¦Genesis 22:16-18 | God promises that the birthright nations among Abraham’s descendants
will possess the gates (access points) of their enemies.
¦Genesis 26:3-5 | God promises the birthright nations will multiply as the stars of heaven.
¦Genesis 27:26-29 | God promises the birthright nations will become wealthy and rule over
other nations.
¦Genesis 28:13-14 | God promises that the birthright nations will spread worldwide.
¦Genesis 35:11 | God promises that the birthright nations will become “a nation and
a company of nations.”
-

"For, lo, I will command, and I will sift [the house of Israel] among [all nations],
like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth”

-the house of Israel was sifted among all nations here, not the house of Judah.