I refuse to discount one scripture's truth to accept another.

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Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
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#81
Christ is at the right hand of God,
He is not sitting on Davids throne at this time.
Davids throne was a physical throne on earth, not heaven.
Keep telling yourself that......
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
#83
to whom the word of the Lord came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign. It came also in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah, until the end of the eleventh year of Zedekiah the son of Josiah, king of Judah, until the exile of Jerusalem in the fifth month. Now the word of the Lord came to me saying, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations." Then I said, "Alas, Lord God ! Behold, I do not know how to speak, Because I am a youth." But the Lord said to me, "Do not say, 'I am a youth,' Because everywhere I send you, you shall go, And all that I command you, you shall speak. "Do not be afraid of them, For I am with you to deliver you," declares the Lord . Then the Lord stretched out His hand and touched my mouth, and the Lord said to me, "Behold, I have put My words in your mouth. "See, I have appointed you this day over the nations and over the kingdoms, To pluck up and to break down, To destroy and to overthrow, To build and to plant."
Jeremiah 1:2‭-‬10 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/jer.1.2-10.NASB

Ok well, we see that God continued to work with Jeremiah through the time of Josiah, King of Judah, grandson of Manasseh, through to the Jehoiakim, Josiah's Son, reign in Judah, to the eleventh year of Zedekiah's, also Josiah's son, eleventh year of reign of Judah.

Both of Josiah's sons died at the hands of Nebuchadnezzar but Zedekiah's fate was the cruelest of the two. He was forced to watch his son's slaughter. He then had his eyes removed, making sure the last thing he saw was that awful death of his sons.

Ok now, I'm not asserting that my knowledge of the history presented is spot on.

Moving on...

Ok, let's examine what the Lord said to him. First can we, the readers, insert ourselves here, should we? Can we assume that these words to Jeremiah is the same for us??? Hmmm...let's take a closer look…

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you. We know that He foreknew everything before creating it, so yeah that definitely applies.

This next part I'm not sure can be applied for us all. And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."

While I accept 100% that if His word says so, it is, it isn't clear to me that we, all of his, were consecrated for a divine calling. I think that a mindset that accepts this as our own, can be very effectual in the since that if we believe we were called to do great things, and that He will be with us, well, let's just say, my oh my how empowering.

I get that this touches, yet again, on the exhaustive topic of predestination and election and also OSAS. Heaven forbid, for we have traveled those roads that leads us back to the corpse of a horse, to the point that every bone of that horse has been pummelled to exhaustive and devouring proportions.

I will admit... I think many scriptures of both the OT and NT support it, but so do many also point to the “whosoever” free-will conclusions. I refuse to discount one scripture's truth to accept another. Also, I refuse to draw my conclusions because it eases my mind with regard to the goodness of my maker. Regardless, His ultimate goodness is not up for debate. Somewhere in the entirety of the scripture lies the big picture of truth that brings harmony to them all. I will continue to examine and search and if He grant's my full understanding, echoes of epiphanic delight will soar throughout the Heavens.

Back to Jeremiah, His great and profound calling was for certain, and equally daunting. Much was given and much expected. What an honor, what a privilege that came with much lamenting.
There is a rule of thumb used by scholars in interpreting Scripture .

Never take a mountain of Scripture you are sure of , and attempt to knock it down with one uncertain passage .
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#84
Sure.....does not change the fact that he is the ONLY one who has authority to the throne of DAVID....I guess I should say...keep telling yourself that drivel that there is some lineage of Kings in Europe that have sat on the throne of David....

You remind me of what God said to Samuel....they have not rejected you but rather they have rejected me of being KING over them

You guys should write for Saturday Night Live.....
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
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#85
"Thy Kingdom come" The Good news of the coming Kingdom of God to earth.
After human misrule causes great tribulation that almost wipes out civilization,

The living Christ is coming as “King of kings and Lord of lords” (Revelation 19:11-21),
to put down the rebellion of warring nations (Revelation 17:14), and establish God’s
world-ruling government over all nations (Daniel 2:44; 7:9, 13-14, 18, 22, 27; Isaiah 9:7).

He went away (to heaven) to be coronated, and to return to Earth (Luke 19:12-27).
He will then be on the Earth—Zechariah 14:3-4, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 (Nahum 1:5)

“We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come;
because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned” (Revelation 11:17)
“The mountains quake at him, and the hills [will] melt…” (Nahum 1:5), (Rev. 16:18)

-The seventh angel sounds-Kingdoms of current world become Christs (Rev 11:15)
Will commit thy government into his hand, established with judgement and justice.
(Isaiah 22:21) Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end,
upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom,...(Isaiah 9:7)

the Beginning of that rule and world government “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them,
and judgment was given unto them…and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years”
(Revelation 20:4).(Isaiah 11:2-4) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall
separate them one from another,...Matthew 25:32

-A Kingdom appointed to the saints , made rulers over some cities.
the glorified saints of God made perfect,cities will be ruled by spirit beings.

Jesus said: “And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will
I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron…” (Rev 2:26-27).
And again, “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne [on this Earth]”
(Revelation 3:21; Luke 1:32-33). And, “…we shall reign on the earth” (Revelation 5:10).

And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;(Luke 22:29)
Some resurrected saints will rule over 10 cities, some over five (Luke 19:12-19)
Saints shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, (Daniel 7:18)
We shall inherit the earth. (Psalms 25:13-22:26, 37:9, 22,29) not flesh and blood.

It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name
of the city from that day shall be, The Lord is there. (Ezekiel 48:35)

17At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord; and
all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem:
neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go
no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city
of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God:
and I will write upon him my new name.

And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt
be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name. (Isaiah 62:2)

-Jerusalem, the future headquarters city of the Earth (Haggai 2:6-8)
-Land Beneath Sea Reclaimed, converted to Jerusalem(Isaiah 60:5, 11:15).
World’s gold and silver reserves under the seas for beautiful decorations there.
-Gods latter house shall be greater than of the former (Haggai 2:9)
-Jerusalem is uniquely describes as being “compact together,” tall 122:3

-Desolate land shall be tilled - will be like the garden of Eden (Ezekiel 36:34-35)
-Build the waste cities-fresh produce-drink there own wine-farming (Amos 9:14)
-Waste cities “filled with flocks of men” being very social(Ezekiel 36:36-37-38)
-Superhighways between major cities (Isaiah 19:23)

-Cities being crime-free , dwell safely-none be made afried (Ezekiel 34:28-Micah 4:4)
-No more Violence, nor wasting, nor destruction (Isaiah 60:18)
-Cities overflow with prosperity (Zechariah 1:17) -Equitable property distribution
- every man shall own his vine and fig tree (Micah 4:4-Lev25) and

-“Joy and gladness-thanksgiving-the voice of melody(Isaiah 51:3)(Jeremiah 33:10-11)
-Where old men and old women dwell -full of boys and girls playing (Zechariah 8:4-5)
-No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up (Isaiah 35:9 )
-There will be Shepherds and local animal husbandry (Jer. 33:12)

-Pure Water—Fertile Deserts where trees grow (Isaiah 35)
-No more hunger-He will raise up a plant of renown (Ezekiel 34:29)
-A new sharp threshing instrument -the mountains made small(Isaiah 41:14-16)
-If any thrist and seek water, the God of Israel will not forsake them. (ver 17-18)

Trees planted and growing-consider and understand that the [Eternal] hath
done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it” . (verse 19-20)

--All will speak the same language, a pure language from God (Zephaniah 3:9).
God will also destroy the idols, Ezekiel 30:13, Micah 5:10-15, Zechariah 13:2

Thy graven images also will I cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst
of thee; and thou shalt no more worship the work of thine hands.

The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. (Isaiah 14:7)
All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name.
Psalms 66:4 -God has spoken it, and He is not one to go back on His word (Isaiah 55:11)
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
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#86
Keep telling yourself that......
At His return, Christ will have to powerfully subdue the world and force mankind
to submit to His rule. He will use a “rod of iron,” symbolizing absolute authority.
Revelation 19:11-16] His headquarters will be located (Jeremiah 3:17)

"At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord; and all the nations shall be
gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more
after the imagination of their evil heart."

We know that King David of ancient Israel will be king over the twelve
great nations composed of literal descendants of the twelve tribes of Israel.

We know the twelve apostles will each be a king, sitting on a throne,
over one of those great nations descended from the tribes of Israel.

King David, will be king, under Moses, over all twelve nations of Israel
(Jeremiah 30:9; Ezekiel 34:23-24; 37:24-25).

Each of the original twelve apostles will be king, under David,
over one of these nations (Matthew 19:28).


This has not happened, Christ has not yet come to claim his throne..
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
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#88
Seems to me that the cultists just want to hi-jack this thread
Seems people start calling other people names when they have
no bible backing, and not put forth scripture of there view to discuss.

I refuse to discount one scripture's truth to accept another.


God has not lied to Abraham or King David
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,693
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#89
There is a rule of thumb used by scholars in interpreting Scripture .

Never take a mountain of Scripture you are sure of , and attempt to knock it down with one uncertain passage .
Oh thank you, great advice. I am just walking through Jeremiah, bit by bit. But I think you make a very good point for me to remember. I think it is like that saying, put a pin in it.. I use writing to help me understand what I read, also as a way to insert myself into the history as I think we should. Also, to see exactly what I need to learn still, like cross reference scriptures, or geography and history, sometimes when I try and express what I understand, I realize just how much I don't, lol. I want to be viscerally invested. But sometimes, perhaps, I try to draw too much out of every passage, limiting its potential depth and meaning. Does that make any sense, Pisteuo? I have so much to learn, including the way I study. I'm just enjoying my time, my heart burns, as He, the Spirit, explains the scriptures to me. I just have to make sure, I'm not misunderstanding. I do know, time spent studying always leaves me feeling closer to my Holy Majestic Maker.
 

BaptistBibleBeliever

Well-known member
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
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#90
Seems people start calling other people names when they have
no bible backing, and not put forth scripture of there view to discuss.

I refuse to discount one scripture's truth to accept another.


God has not lied to Abraham or King David
Then start your own thread and lay out your case for Armstrongism.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,693
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#91
Seems people start calling other people names when they have
no bible backing, and not put forth scripture of there view to discuss.

I refuse to discount one scripture's truth to accept another.


God has not lied to Abraham or King David
I hate thinking anything I post would stir up contention or bitter feelings. I accept that we all are invested, this aspect I respect even if our conclusions vary. Besides the insults, offense and frustrations I see, I am intrigued with the different and expansive knowledge so many have acquired, all in seeking to understand the only King that really matters. I like peace, but that isn't always obtainable here or anywhere. However, I find peace in my heart for all my brothers and sisters in Christ.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
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#92
Then start your own thread and lay out your case for Armstrongism.
Why don't you show me what you disagree with on this thread for starters.
I am not here to prove Armstrongism, but the bible scriptures.

Like the bible says : prove all things, hold onto the truth.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,693
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#95
At His return, Christ will have to powerfully subdue the world and force mankind
to submit to His rule. He will use a “rod of iron,” symbolizing absolute authority.
Revelation 19:11-16] His headquarters will be located (Jeremiah 3:17)

"At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord; and all the nations shall be
gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more
after the imagination of their evil heart."

We know that King David of ancient Israel will be king over the twelve
great nations composed of literal descendants of the twelve tribes of Israel.

We know the twelve apostles will each be a king, sitting on a throne,
over one of those great nations descended from the tribes of Israel.

King David, will be king, under Moses, over all twelve nations of Israel
(Jeremiah 30:9; Ezekiel 34:23-24; 37:24-25).

Each of the original twelve apostles will be king, under David,
over one of these nations (Matthew 19:28).


This has not happened, Christ has not yet come to claim his throne..
I must admit very interesting, especially Jeremiah 3:17. These quarrels I read, may never find harmony but I am determined to.
 

BaptistBibleBeliever

Well-known member
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
1,032
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71
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#96
See now, until today I didn't know anything about Armstrongism. I agree that would be an interesting read.
Studying doctrinal error can also lead to other problems because they tend to put just enough truth where the error isn't always immediately apparent. At any rate, as an ex-Mormon, I do not spend a lot of time keeping up with their beliefs mostly because of what Paul tells us in Romans.

"For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil" (Romans 16:19).

All that cultists want to do is argue--argue--argue to no profit. They don't change, they only hope that you'll change yours.

Another thing Paul tells us . . .

"For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified" (I Corinthians 2:2).

I don't spend a lot of time arguing with those that insist we can lose our salvation, or that we must speak in tongues to prove we are saved . . . error in general. Well, at least among those that are obviously entrenched in their doctrinal views.

And the last line of my signature explains why . . .
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
#98
Oh thank you, great advice. I am just walking through Jeremiah, bit by bit. But I think you make a very good point for me to remember. I think it is like that saying, put a pin in it.. I use writing to help me understand what I read, also as a way to insert myself into the history as I think we should. Also, to see exactly what I need to learn still, like cross reference scriptures, or geography and history, sometimes when I try and express what I understand, I realize just how much I don't, lol. I want to be viscerally invested. But sometimes, perhaps, I try to draw too much out of every passage, limiting its potential depth and meaning. Does that make any sense, Pisteuo? I have so much to learn, including the way I study. I'm just enjoying my time, my heart burns, as He, the Spirit, explains the scriptures to me. I just have to make sure, I'm not misunderstanding. I do know, time spent studying always leaves me feeling closer to my Holy Majestic Maker.
My teacher also taught that when you read a chapter of Scripture , rereading the same chapter , but each time meditate on each word in the chapter individually.

Are you a little more serious than most about mining through God's Word ?
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,693
7,176
113
#99
"Thy Kingdom come" The Good news of the coming Kingdom of God to earth.
After human misrule causes great tribulation that almost wipes out civilization,

The living Christ is coming as “King of kings and Lord of lords” (Revelation 19:11-21),
to put down the rebellion of warring nations (Revelation 17:14), and establish God’s
world-ruling government over all nations (Daniel 2:44; 7:9, 13-14, 18, 22, 27; Isaiah 9:7).

He went away (to heaven) to be coronated, and to return to Earth (Luke 19:12-27).
He will then be on the Earth—Zechariah 14:3-4, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 (Nahum 1:5)

“We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come;
because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned” (Revelation 11:17)
“The mountains quake at him, and the hills [will] melt…” (Nahum 1:5), (Rev. 16:18)



-The seventh angel sounds-Kingdoms of current world become Christs (Rev 11:15)
Will commit thy government into his hand, established with judgement and justice.
(Isaiah 22:21) Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end,
upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom,...(Isaiah 9:7)

the Beginning of that rule and world government “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them,
and judgment was given unto them…and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years”
(Revelation 20:4).(Isaiah 11:2-4) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall
separate them one from another,...Matthew 25:32

-A Kingdom appointed to the saints , made rulers over some cities.
the glorified saints of God made perfect,cities will be ruled by spirit beings.

Jesus said: “And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will
I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron…” (Rev 2:26-27).
And again, “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne [on this Earth]”
(Revelation 3:21; Luke 1:32-33). And, “…we shall reign on the earth” (Revelation 5:10).

And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;(Luke 22:29)
Some resurrected saints will rule over 10 cities, some over five (Luke 19:12-19)
Saints shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, (Daniel 7:18)
We shall inherit the earth. (Psalms 25:13-22:26, 37:9, 22,29) not flesh and blood.

It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name
of the city from that day shall be, The Lord is there. (Ezekiel 48:35)

17At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord; and
all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem:
neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go
no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city
of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God:
and I will write upon him my new name.

And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt
be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name. (Isaiah 62:2)

-Jerusalem, the future headquarters city of the Earth (Haggai 2:6-8)
-Land Beneath Sea Reclaimed, converted to Jerusalem(Isaiah 60:5, 11:15).
World’s gold and silver reserves under the seas for beautiful decorations there.
-Gods latter house shall be greater than of the former (Haggai 2:9)
-Jerusalem is uniquely describes as being “compact together,” tall 122:3

-Desolate land shall be tilled - will be like the garden of Eden (Ezekiel 36:34-35)
-Build the waste cities-fresh produce-drink there own wine-farming (Amos 9:14)
-Waste cities “filled with flocks of men” being very social(Ezekiel 36:36-37-38)
-Superhighways between major cities (Isaiah 19:23)

-Cities being crime-free , dwell safely-none be made afried (Ezekiel 34:28-Micah 4:4)
-No more Violence, nor wasting, nor destruction (Isaiah 60:18)
-Cities overflow with prosperity (Zechariah 1:17) -Equitable property distribution
- every man shall own his vine and fig tree (Micah 4:4-Lev25) and

-“Joy and gladness-thanksgiving-the voice of melody(Isaiah 51:3)(Jeremiah 33:10-11)
-Where old men and old women dwell -full of boys and girls playing (Zechariah 8:4-5)
-No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up (Isaiah 35:9 )
-There will be Shepherds and local animal husbandry (Jer. 33:12)

-Pure Water—Fertile Deserts where trees grow (Isaiah 35)
-No more hunger-He will raise up a plant of renown (Ezekiel 34:29)
-A new sharp threshing instrument -the mountains made small(Isaiah 41:14-16)
-If any thrist and seek water, the God of Israel will not forsake them. (ver 17-18)

Trees planted and growing-consider and understand that the [Eternal] hath
done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it” . (verse 19-20)

--All will speak the same language, a pure language from God (Zephaniah 3:9).
God will also destroy the idols, Ezekiel 30:13, Micah 5:10-15, Zechariah 13:2

Thy graven images also will I cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst
of thee; and thou shalt no more worship the work of thine hands.

The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. (Isaiah 14:7)
All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name.
Psalms 66:4 -God has spoken it, and He is not one to go back on His word (Isaiah 55:11)
Please be patient and know, my understanding isn't as thorough as yours, my knowledge not even close. BUT doesn't the Kingdom of God dwell in the midst and within. And isn't the King of all Kings now and forever sitting as rule over our lives, forever. Not like He will be in our Glorified estate but the truth of His throne resides within, right now, forever more. I suppose, I should just read, not try to argue because I see what you are saying that He hasn't returned but I just still think His Kingship and Authority is already done. Now I know the story isn't over but we don't want to add to the word, eh? He has given us what we need to know. But I should just shhhhhh, because right now, I am not well enough versed.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,693
7,176
113
I see you joined the staff here CharliRenee, congratulations. :D
Yeah lol, it isn't because of any expertise on my part, including biblical knowledge. Hahaha. I'm just a simple and humble sister in Christ. It is just some pragmatics that hopefully I can help with, that's all. Thanks Deade, that means a lot to me. I hope that it is a welcome idea to the users of this awesome Christian community.