-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
14Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men. 15See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
Any person that is unruly (sin) should be warned... And this all should do! A padtor that is not an example of holiness is already unruly.. AND he is not appointed by God. It looks like Pastors that are appointed by God CANNOT be unruly...Eph4:11. 1 John3:9, 1 John 5:18.. 2 Peter 1:21... 1 Tim 3
22Abstain from all appearance of evil.
Wow! we should even abstain from the appearance of evil let alone the practice.... Oh but the false pastors say we cannot do that, we will always sin in the flesh.... So if he is not willing to ABSTAIN then nobody can....Well that just proves he should be warned... So pastor that teach against this...Matthew 5:48...Be warned...
I thank God, that HE TOOK ME OUT OF THOSE TEACHINGS... And to ANY person that I also preached you cannot be made perfect, PLEASE FORGIVE ME!... To all the people I cursed with the words...We will always sin, I beg forgiveness. To all the people I cursed by saying GOD does not want you to be perfect... I ask God, please forgive me, I cannot council You Lord, and I do not want to be a false teacher/pastor. And thank You Lord that YOU are Lord. Let thou will be done in my life. Amen!
Lord there are many false teachers, but thank you that YOU STILL TEACH. My advice... READ THE WORD OF GOD, and allow GOD to SHOW you...
This is God's will I copied and pasted... using my fingers, to give this as the proof...God does COMPLETE us to HIS WILL...
23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
Preserved blameless... that means God finished the sanctification to perfection.... AND THEN HE KEEPS IT LIKE THAT UNTO THE COMING.... We know AFTER HE CAME there is no more evil. but that is another study...
Any person that is unruly (sin) should be warned... And this all should do! A padtor that is not an example of holiness is already unruly.. AND he is not appointed by God. It looks like Pastors that are appointed by God CANNOT be unruly...Eph4:11. 1 John3:9, 1 John 5:18.. 2 Peter 1:21... 1 Tim 3
22Abstain from all appearance of evil.
Wow! we should even abstain from the appearance of evil let alone the practice.... Oh but the false pastors say we cannot do that, we will always sin in the flesh.... So if he is not willing to ABSTAIN then nobody can....Well that just proves he should be warned... So pastor that teach against this...Matthew 5:48...Be warned...
I thank God, that HE TOOK ME OUT OF THOSE TEACHINGS... And to ANY person that I also preached you cannot be made perfect, PLEASE FORGIVE ME!... To all the people I cursed with the words...We will always sin, I beg forgiveness. To all the people I cursed by saying GOD does not want you to be perfect... I ask God, please forgive me, I cannot council You Lord, and I do not want to be a false teacher/pastor. And thank You Lord that YOU are Lord. Let thou will be done in my life. Amen!
Lord there are many false teachers, but thank you that YOU STILL TEACH. My advice... READ THE WORD OF GOD, and allow GOD to SHOW you...
This is God's will I copied and pasted... using my fingers, to give this as the proof...God does COMPLETE us to HIS WILL...
23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
Preserved blameless... that means God finished the sanctification to perfection.... AND THEN HE KEEPS IT LIKE THAT UNTO THE COMING.... We know AFTER HE CAME there is no more evil. but that is another study...
L
Study all aspects of the new testament prophet, their functions, capacity, and purpose and you will answer your own question. Only instead of cutting them off at the early church apply that purpose and function today. Same as its always been, defined heavily in scripture. And there is a big difference between old testament and new testament prophets and prophecy btw. We are now in a dispensation of grace instead of law, which changes a lot.
There is nothing more refreshing than a heart that is willing and eager to learn.
C
The role of the prophet has not changed much since Old Testament times. The basic role of the prophet, whether in OT or NT times, it is to hold spiritual authority under spiritual accountability. For every Saul there was a Samuel, for every David there was a Nathan, for every Nebuchanezer (spelling?) there was a Daniel. For a New Testament perspective look no further than John the Baptist. This is why the Apostle Paul encourages the early church to seek the gift of prophecy for the prophet is God's representative in the legitimate scriptural power structure of the church (Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors & Teachers).
What the prophet is not is a fortune teller. Many in the modern charismatic church have no concept of scriptural prophecy mainly because they do not embrace scriptural spiritual authority. A prophet never reveals "new revelation" but rather is the tool in which God uses to shed led light on existing revelation. This is what Paul is referring to in 1st Cor 13:12 (For now we see through a glass, darkly).
What the prophet is not is a fortune teller. Many in the modern charismatic church have no concept of scriptural prophecy mainly because they do not embrace scriptural spiritual authority. A prophet never reveals "new revelation" but rather is the tool in which God uses to shed led light on existing revelation. This is what Paul is referring to in 1st Cor 13:12 (For now we see through a glass, darkly).
C
The truth is that very few in modern church truly understand the scriptural power structure of the church. Yes there are real Apostles however, most who claim the title do so out of selfish amibition rather than a real heart for church planting.
Personally, I don't know which is worse, the abuse found among certain belief systems or the push by Cessastionists to rid the church of any real scriptural accountability in favor of the latest popular church business model which will help their church grow despite embracing doctrines which make allowances for sin and compromise.
Personally, I don't know which is worse, the abuse found among certain belief systems or the push by Cessastionists to rid the church of any real scriptural accountability in favor of the latest popular church business model which will help their church grow despite embracing doctrines which make allowances for sin and compromise.
U
Oxymoron : Yes...there are real apostles and prophets today. Cessationists seek to rid the church of scriptural accountability. Good grief.
Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - YouTube
Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - YouTube
C
I am familiar with what both Hagin and Copeland believe and what I stated has absolutely nothing to do with them.
Cessationist do not believe in Apostles, Prophets and (true) Evangelists because if they had then God would use them to expose the errors in their doctrines which allow them to sustain their lifestyles of sin and compromise yet maintain leadership roles. Instead they have exalted the roles of Pastors and teachers in order keep their congregations under subjection to local authority only and have reduced the role of the evangelist to nothing more than a traveling preacher to the lost instead of his true role of a traveling over seer.
Cessationist do not believe in Apostles, Prophets and (true) Evangelists because if they had then God would use them to expose the errors in their doctrines which allow them to sustain their lifestyles of sin and compromise yet maintain leadership roles. Instead they have exalted the roles of Pastors and teachers in order keep their congregations under subjection to local authority only and have reduced the role of the evangelist to nothing more than a traveling preacher to the lost instead of his true role of a traveling over seer.
C
You miss the point. Yes Jesus is the head and the bible is the standard. However, the bible clearly teaches that there is a hierarchy pertaining to spiritual authority among church leadership.
Jesus raises up leaders (apostles) to uphold the biblical standard. However, seeing as authority without accountability always results in abuse of that authority, Jesus raises up others to be his mouthpiece (prophets) to make certain that the leadership (apostles) maintain the standard rather than compromise it. Jesus also raises up others (evangelists) as traveling overseers to be sure that the other two roles are kept in check as well. These gifts / roles (not to be mistaken with offices or titles) when operating according to the biblical standard actually operate in a very simular manner as the trinity.
Jesus raises up leaders (apostles) to uphold the biblical standard. However, seeing as authority without accountability always results in abuse of that authority, Jesus raises up others to be his mouthpiece (prophets) to make certain that the leadership (apostles) maintain the standard rather than compromise it. Jesus also raises up others (evangelists) as traveling overseers to be sure that the other two roles are kept in check as well. These gifts / roles (not to be mistaken with offices or titles) when operating according to the biblical standard actually operate in a very simular manner as the trinity.
U
Cessationists do not believe in (MODERN DAY) Apostles, Prophets ....... AND today's "acceptance and understanding" of the gift of tongues......i.e.....heavenly language, or more aptly suited.....gibberish. Tongues at pentecost was EARTHLY LANGUAGES spoken thru God's Holy Spirit for the benefit of the unbelievers present. The end. The remainder of your post is speculation born of ignorance and presumption. Frankly, you don't know what you're talking about.
Psalm 95:7
For He is our God and we are the people of His pasture and the sheep of His hand. Today, if you will hear His voice,
Psalm 95:6-8 (in Context) Psalm 95 (Whole Chapter)
- Matthew 25:32
All nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them [the people] from one another as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats;
Matthew 25:31-33 (in Context) Matthew 25 (Whole Chapter) - Matthew 25:33
And He will cause the sheep to stand at His right hand, but the goats at His left.
Matthew 25:32-34 (in Context) Matthew 25 (Whole Chapter) - Luke 15:6
And when he gets home, he summons together [his] friends and [his] neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep which was lost.
Luke 15:5-7 (in Context) Luke 15 (Whole Chapter) - John 10:3
The watchman opens the door for this man, and the sheep listen to his voice and heed it; and he calls his own sheep by name and brings (leads) them out.
John 10:2-4 (in Context) John 10 (Whole Chapter) - John 10:4
When he has brought his own sheep outside, he walks on before them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice.
John 10:3-5 (in Context) John 10 (Whole Chapter) - John 10:11
I am the Good Shepherd. The Good Shepherd risks and lays down His [own] life for the sheep.
John 10:10-12 (in Context) John 10 (Whole Chapter
His children hear his voice. It's very sad so many hear from God but you unbelievers don't. You call the word of God a lie and then you don't hear God. Is it any wonder! You unbelievers are being warned but you don't listen. God won't force you to believe in him and he won't force you to hear his voice either. You ignore God just like you ignore his children. You mock and sneer at Gods children. That is the same as spiting in the face of our God. You will reap what you have sown. Repent.
I believe that a careful reading of Acts will show that Paul ordered that all church congregations have a plurality of elders to govern each local congregation. These elders were selected by the local congregation, and confirmed by Paul. Since there was no completed cannon of scripture to use as a standard for doctrine, the elders appealed to an apostle for guidance. Paul then exercised authority over those congregations that he himself had begun. However, he exercised his authority through the elders.
Evangelists in that time, when the church was in it's infancy, were given their authority by the apostles themselves, usually by a laying on of the hands. As the church became established, and a cannon of scripture became available to use as a standard, the elders of the congregations appealed more and more to scripture as the authority. As the apostles, and their appointed evangelists all died, the scripture, as the word of God, became the authority by which elders govern their congregations.
Jesus Christ is the head of his church. It is his spirit, which gives discernment to elders, selected according to the requirements set forth by Paul in 1 Timothy, to apply the authority of God's word, in the governance of the local congregation.
Evangelists in that time, when the church was in it's infancy, were given their authority by the apostles themselves, usually by a laying on of the hands. As the church became established, and a cannon of scripture became available to use as a standard, the elders of the congregations appealed more and more to scripture as the authority. As the apostles, and their appointed evangelists all died, the scripture, as the word of God, became the authority by which elders govern their congregations.
Jesus Christ is the head of his church. It is his spirit, which gives discernment to elders, selected according to the requirements set forth by Paul in 1 Timothy, to apply the authority of God's word, in the governance of the local congregation.
C
Absolutely. I agree with everything that you have posted concerning the local church. However, keep in mind that in that day many traveled so that localized congregations would not become isolated and begin to adopt questionable doctrine. This why God gave us the gift of apostles, prophets and evangelists to not only hold the local church accountable but one another as well. From my studies the roles of the apostle. prophet and evangelist are somewhat equal in authority with each operating in different aspects of authority.
No matter how hard you try or from what angle you may come from, you will never change them nor what they believe. Your efforts may be noble but are fruitless. You only embolden them in that area that you want to expose as being fraudulent. I am not the only one that sees it. Why not just build them up as believers (not in their gift but in their person) so that the body of Christ can be edified in the love of God. I'm not going to be able to convert any of you that believe in your 'amillennial' interpretation of the scriptures, but I can convey the truth whether you accept it or not. When you get nasty or when you mock others, that's when we have a problem and I tend to return the favor. You and others do not have to continually respond and try to correct them all the time, they will only come back with more ammo, just like you do.
The reason that the evangelists were needed in that day is because there was no completed scriptural canon to appeal to. The local congregations had no choice but to appeal to the evangelists for authority.
That is not the case today, when we have a completed canon, which is the word of God.
Malachi was the last book of the O.T. written around 430 B.C. For more than 400 years there were no prophets. There is an instance in Maccabees, an apocryphal writing, but containing history which is useful, in which temple officials set documents aside, to wait for a prophet, to tell them what to do with them.
The Jewish people knew there were no prophets. It is amazing that in their day, they could discern between true and false prophets. We have lost that ability today. It is apparent by the number of people in this forum who are taken in by false prophets on here, many of whom have been proven false over time.
The fact is that we do have an ability to discern a true prophet from a false one. That ability is found in the authority of the bible. If the prophets speak that which is contrary to God's word found in the bible, we know them to be false. That is why the false prophets on here are quick to diminish the bible's importance, and appeal to the experiential instead.
But if the bible is the means by which we discern between true and false prophets, then it is the bible, and not the prophet, that is the true authority.
That is not the case today, when we have a completed canon, which is the word of God.
Malachi was the last book of the O.T. written around 430 B.C. For more than 400 years there were no prophets. There is an instance in Maccabees, an apocryphal writing, but containing history which is useful, in which temple officials set documents aside, to wait for a prophet, to tell them what to do with them.
The Jewish people knew there were no prophets. It is amazing that in their day, they could discern between true and false prophets. We have lost that ability today. It is apparent by the number of people in this forum who are taken in by false prophets on here, many of whom have been proven false over time.
The fact is that we do have an ability to discern a true prophet from a false one. That ability is found in the authority of the bible. If the prophets speak that which is contrary to God's word found in the bible, we know them to be false. That is why the false prophets on here are quick to diminish the bible's importance, and appeal to the experiential instead.
But if the bible is the means by which we discern between true and false prophets, then it is the bible, and not the prophet, that is the true authority.
Last edited:
C
We rarely see the authentic giftings of the apostle, prophet and evangelist today because the church lost it's scriptural identity with the conception of Catholicism which over time embraced secular forms of government, an error that the vast majority of protestant churches have yet to veer away from.
Many modern churches, especially in western civilization, have modeled themselves after popular business concepts which explains the popularity of the prosperity gospel. I see this illegitimate form of church governance being embraced in many charismatic (rick joyner) and baptist (rick warren) circles.
Many modern churches, especially in western civilization, have modeled themselves after popular business concepts which explains the popularity of the prosperity gospel. I see this illegitimate form of church governance being embraced in many charismatic (rick joyner) and baptist (rick warren) circles.