If Women Can't Have Authority Over Men in the Church, Why Are They Expected to Teach in School?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
5,263
2,481
113
Where in Scripture is it stated that women may not 'pastor' women?
Where in Scripture is it stated that pastoring is only done in the corporate gathering?
Which passage in the Law requires women to be in submission and/or silent?
How is it that in the same letter where Paul encourages women to pray and prophesy (chapter 11) he is now demanding that they be silent?
Answer: certain actions are disallowed in a Church service. A woman cannot possibly maintain the position of pastor in the context of a Church service. She can act as pastor to her children obviously. As do all women.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
5,263
2,481
113
I'm not going to answer your questions before you answer mine.
A prophetess may speak forth. And did (Anna for example). But not in a Church service.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
5,263
2,481
113
I'm not going to answer your questions before you answer mine.
Show me the overt and demonstrable female leadership in the NT. Women are always in a supporting role. No Apostles no men wrote a word of Scripture. All OT priests were men.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
12,820
5,746
113
Show me the overt and demonstrable female leadership in the NT. Women are always in a supporting role. No Apostles no men wrote a word of Scripture. All OT priests were men.
No one in good conscience can claim that God does NOT have clearly demarcated roles for Christian men and women in the home and in the local assembly.

And God takes this all the way back to creating the man Adam FIRST, and THEN taking one of his ribs and creating Eve. There is tremendous spiritual significance in that, and eventually it illustrates the eternal relationship of Christ -- the divine Husband -- with His Wife -- the Church.

One could go so far as to say that the breakdown of Western society, the family, and the home, has its roots in the breakdown of the appropriate roles of men and women in society. And now the politically correct generals do not even understand that women should not be closely associated with men within the armed forces, or given combat roles. Or that transgenderism has no place in the armed forces.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
15,323
8,325
113
Show me the overt and demonstrable female leadership in the NT. Women are always in a supporting role. No Apostles no men wrote a word of Scripture. All OT priests were men.
You seem to have misunderstood my previous post.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
15,323
8,325
113
And God takes this all the way back to creating the man Adam FIRST, and THEN taking one of his ribs and creating Eve. There is tremendous spiritual significance in that, and eventually it illustrates the eternal relationship of Christ -- the divine Husband -- with His Wife -- the Church.
Careful with your analogies, lest you inadvertently postulate that Jesus is a created being.

One could go so far as to say that the breakdown of Western society, the family, and the home, has its roots in the breakdown of the appropriate roles of men and women in society.
The breakdown is due to the same root cause as every other human problem: sin.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
5,263
2,481
113
And nobody knows which law he's speaking of.

"They are not permitted to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says"
And you mean exactly what by that?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
26,726
3,912
113
TO:

The Author of the Thread. You don't actually expect people to apply their Christian beliefs (as they do in their congregations) to their worldly lives do you? Are you NUTS?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
5,263
2,481
113
"In both 1 Corinthians 11 and 14, Paul is keen to maintain male spiritual leadership in the home and church as a universal principle (see also 1 Timothy 2:12). Pastors and elders are men, and women come under that authority with the rest of the church. "
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,521
113
Im not insulted. Paul may be. You and he can settle your differences when the opportunity arises.

As to your blather about culture....it is utterly irrelevant.

Paul issued stark commands. Succinct. Non-arbitrary. Clear. Concise. Not open to the whims of cultural degridation or whimsy.

There are no positions in a Church congregation where women can have authority over men in terms of Church authority. Ever. Period.
I would offer.. Yes culture has nothing to do with the affect of the gospel .Fashions come and go. Just as in the same way. . male and female do not affect the work of the gospel. Deborah (the Bee) comes to mind. . . or Rehab (Storm)

There is no positions in a Church congregation where man can have authority over woman in terms of Church authority. No lording it over or venerating as does Catholisicim…. and corrupted Judaism.

We are lovingly commanded to study to show ourselves approved unto God who gives us as a living hope working in us guiding us and bringing to mind the things he has taught us. We would never seek the approval of the teaching of man apposed to the teaching of a woman. but after neither man nor woman. The noble Bereans were commended being moved by the Spirit that dwelt in them to see if what they were hearing was prophecy. . . searching the scriptures daily....as their daily bread.

Christ is the one head of both.(mankind) The reformation has come. One new ceremonial law . The head of hair covering for the woman. . . covering her representative glory of God, not leaving her with none... and no covering for the man, having woman as his representative glory to represent the one new bride.. . neither Jew nor gentile, male nor female as one celebrating the wedding supper typified by bread and the blood of grapes.

It is part of the new order it was applied where men and woman could worship in the same way (by faith) . Not behind stone walls of separation. Forbidden under the old order of Kings a pagan tradition. The other ceremonial laws were fulfilled according to the pagan traditions of Kings. Woman under the thumb of man .The time of reformation had come..

The new order has come according to Joel in Acts 2. . . daughters and sons of all nations sent out to preach the gospel (prophesying) in a hope Christ will teach them by applying it to the hearts of mankind. The hope of faith. The silence cannot be preaching the gospel as that of men alone.

The silence must in respect to another kind of teaching. One that men and woman should perform at home. Most likely relationship problems .The new order putting men and woman in the same place must of caused disorder . The faithless Jew rejected the reformation , And as a sign of rebellion to the reformation they cover their head ((yamakas) indicating no Spirit of Christ

Men they are also commanded to be under obedience as to what the law says . not just woman." we need no man to teach us but as it as it is written teaches us we abide in him (men and woman both )

Let all things be done decently and in order.1 Corinthian 14:40

It is why I would think the teaching in mind is not the gospel . In that way one is our teaching master in heaven not seen (Mathew24) . Our Holy father. We are to call no man or woman. . . teacher on earth . Even the Son of man Jesus would not stand in the Holy place of the Father, when called good master he gave that glory to the father and said only God is good.

The idea that wives should wait till they get home to hear the infallible master just does not make sense s at least to my own self.

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church..1 Corinthian 14:34-35

Shame for women to speak in the church. It would seem to be relationship teaching she has her husband at home. Same shame applies to men . Order in the church, no flirting with the world. . . wrong kind of representative glory . .Family fun at pot lucks and picnics.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
398
83
Are you subverting the topic?
I honestly do not believe a woman can serve in the office of pastor even to other women. IMO no woman can lead a duly constituted body of believers.
In any theological point every verse on the topic must be looked at in context. That means getting a systematic theology book which lists every verse on all topics. It is a large book. What is going on in this thread is basically cherry picking verses not looking at all pertinent verses in context.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
15,323
8,325
113
"In both 1 Corinthians 11 and 14, Paul is keen to maintain male spiritual leadership in the home and church as a universal principle (see also 1 Timothy 2:12). Pastors and elders are men, and women come under that authority with the rest of the church. "
You haven't answered my other questions yet, so I'm not holding my breath on this one...

Have you ever really done the homework for yourself on this, or are you just echoing what someone taught you?
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
398
83
Show me the overt and demonstrable female leadership in the NT. Women are always in a supporting role. No Apostles no men wrote a word of Scripture. All OT priests were men.
One of the first deacons was a woman.

Romans 16 NIV
Personal Greetings
16 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae. 2 I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of his people and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been the benefactor of many people, including me.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
5,263
2,481
113
You haven't answered my other questions yet, so I'm not holding my breath on this one...

Have you ever really done the homework for yourself on this, or are you just echoing what someone taught you?
Echoing what somebody taught me. That being Paul the Apostle.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
5,263
2,481
113
One of the first deacons was a woman.

Romans 16 NIV
Personal Greetings
16 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae. 2 I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of his people and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been the benefactor of many people, including me.
Deaconess under the authority of the chosen and sanctified adult male church leadership.
No problems there.

Women pastors and ministers (so called) leading the congregation (including adult men) is brazen disobedience and outright rebellion of the same kind as Dathan, Abiram and Korah. This is no joke.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
32,926
10,867
113
65
Florida
1 Cor 14:35

"If they wish to inquire about something, they are to ask their own husbands at home; for it is dishonorable for a woman to speak in the church."

So you assert that this is no longer required in this day and age? In the new liberal Church? Where commandments and persons do what is right in their own eyes?
Not all women have husbands at home. Perhaps they could pose their inquiry to their boyfriend.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
32,926
10,867
113
65
Florida
Deaconess under the authority of the chosen and sanctified adult male church leadership.
No problems there.

Women pastors and ministers (so called) leading the congregation (including adult men) is brazen disobedience and outright rebellion of the same kind as Dathan, Abiram and Korah. This is no joke.
It might be best for women to skip church altogether. Why expose oneself to a hostile environment? Why do you assumed that the chosen adult male leadership is sanctified? Isn't that between the individual and God?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
15,323
8,325
113
Deaconess under the authority of the chosen and sanctified adult male church leadership.
No problems there.
The problem is that you are assuming things that aren't stated in Scripture.