is bible the word of God

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know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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But why didn"t u read Quran n Islam then.? Islam is religion while christianity is cult.
Muslims say to Jesus what he himself said.He never said I m God nor said worship me.Then he came only for jews.
Christianity might be called a religion, but it is more of a RELATIONSHIP.
If you don't walk with God, then it becomes more of a religion.
He came for His sheep.
And He spoke of other sheep, not of the Jewish fold.

Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

I find it interesting the Muslim religion is VERY similar to the Jewish old testament times, as though they got many of their ways and laws from the old testament.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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But why didn"t u read Quran n Islam then.? Islam is religion while christianity is cult.
Muslims say to Jesus what he himself said.He never said I m God nor said worship me.Then he came only for jews.
ROFL
A cult is derived from another religion with changes to the original. In this case the Bible was completed by 100. The Koran is dated between 609 and 632. Therefore Islam is a cult of Christianity.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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I am no one to point flaws in bible because Bible scholars have already.

But why didn"t u read Quran n Islam then.? Islam is religion while christianity is cult.
Muslims say to Jesus what he himself said.He never said I m God nor said worship me.Then he came only for jews.
For someone who is no one to point out flaws in the bible,...
That's okay, it's only for those who are OF God.
Those who are not OF God, CANNOT see the truth.

Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

And where did you go, I was just getting warmed up?
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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ROFL
A cult is derived from another religion with changes to the original. In this case the Bible was completed by 100. The Koran is dated between 609 and 632. Therefore Islam is a cult of Christianity.
Good post, good point.
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
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Christian not only love Jesus, but praise and worship Him, not only for His work on the cross, to each of us who believe and received Him personally, but because of WHO He is, which is God the Son.
Show me where jesus himself explicitly said "I m God or worship me"If he didn't say then he is not God nor his son!.period.
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
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For someone who is no one to point out flaws in the bible,...
That's okay, it's only for those who are OF God.
Those who are not OF God, CANNOT see the truth.

Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

And where did you go, I was just getting warmed up?
If we can't hear his word because we are not of God so why all this hide n seek game He could have forgiven us in heaven n we didn't have to come to earth.
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
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Christianity might be called a religion, but it is more of a RELATIONSHIP.
If you don't walk with God, then it becomes more of a religion.
He came for His sheep.
And He spoke of other sheep, not of the Jewish fold.

Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

I find it interesting the Muslim religion is VERY similar to the Jewish old testament times, as though they got many of their ways and laws from the old testament.
What a fake reasoning.If Quran had been result of following OT it would have same mistakes but it is free of them all.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Show me where jesus himself explicitly said "I m God or worship me"If he didn't say then he is not God nor his son!.period.
That's a logical fallacy. You haven't stated that you are human, therefore I don't believe that you are human.

Do you see how ridiculous that is?

Jesus' words about Himself are adequately clear. You're just hung up on the absence of this one phrase. Are you really willing to bet your eternity on it? I hope not.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
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You wouldn't say Jeremiah 8:8 is God's word.
And tell me which son did Abraham took to offer for sacrifice?
You already posted that about Jer 8:8...Do you have any interest in discussing Paul and any of the content of my post?

and the word clearly says Isaac. I'm willing to discuss what I think you are hinting at as I am also a seeker but firstly why don't we address the issues you have with Paul. Otherwise this could look like simple disparagement or at worst intentional division. Do you agree?
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
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In the original language of the Bible it is inerrant. Translations can have errors. Also older translations have problems because of changes in the language. KJV has this problem. Below is the issues with KJV.

Problems with the KJV

Because of the changes in the English language between 1611 to today, a number of words occur in the King James that make zero sense to most people today. These include the following nuggets that you will find scattered here and there:

Almug
Algum
Charashim
Chode
Cracknels
Gat
Habergeon
Hosen
Kab
Ligure
Neesed
Nusings
Ouches
ring-straked
sycamyne
trow
wimples, ….

In addition knowledge of nature has advanced greatly since 1611. The King James translators translated some animal names into animals that in fact we now have pretty good reason for knowing don’t actually exist:

unicorn (Deut. 33:17)
satyr (Isa 13:21);
dragon (Deut 32:33) (for serpent)
cockatrice (Isa 11:8),
arrowsnake (Gen 49:11, in the margin).

Moreover,, there are phrases that simply don’t make sense any more to modern readers: Phrases that no longer make sense:

ouches of gold (Exod. 28:11);
collops of fat (Job 15:25);
naughty figs (Jer 24:2);
ien with (Jer. 3:2);
the ground is chapt (Jer 14:4);
brazen wall” (Jer 15:20);
rentest thy face (Jer. 4:30);
urrain of the cattle (Exod. 9:2);

And there are whole sentences that are confusing at best, virtually indecipherable (or humorous)

And Jacob sod pottage (Gen 25:29)
And Mt. Sinai was altogether on a smoke (Exoc. 19:18)
Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (Ps. 5:6)
I trow not (Luke 17:9)
We do you to wit of the grace of God (2 Cor. 8:1)
Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels (2 Cor. 6:12)
He who letteth will let (2 Thes 2:7)
The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd (Eccles. 12:11)


Other sentences make sense, but would today be considered somewhat problematic – at least for the sacred Scripture. My favorite is the one that refers one who: “Pisseth against the wall:…. 1 Sam 25:22, 34, I Kings 14:10!
NIV uses the word man.
Thanks for that man, I really appreciate it. I can't say I've read the entire KJV but I do find it to more illustrative when it comes to fleshing out concepts for me. It's the closest translation into "verbose verbiage". Maybe it wasn't that way back then but I've been liking it a lot lately. Certain things I've had personal issues with that I don't think the word talks about specifically the KJV is more specific with...almost as if I'm geared toward it currently.

Interesting to have all the phrases laid out :)
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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If we can't hear his word because we are not of God so why all this hide n seek game He could have forgiven us in heaven n we didn't have to come to earth.
You would be like the Jews who Jesus said,

Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

I just showed you where Jesus said He not only came for the Jews, but other sheep THAT WERE NOT OF THAT FOLD. That being of the Jews.
This is where you have eyes to see, but cannot see what is right in front of you. No offense intended.
Unlike your religion, Mohammed is dead, where Jesus is alive.
Unlike your religion, Mohammed doesn't speak to you like Jesus does to us.
I have heard His voice and can quote you the words He spoke to me. How the scripture I was thinking of was wrong, told me what it actually said, and explain the meaning of the verse to me very clearly. And He wasn't being nice about it either. At first, He screamed or yelled exceedingly loud at me in a language I didn't understand, then in a very stern tone, corrected me in English, as to what I was thinking, because I never said anything out loud. I checked the bible right after that, to see if what I heard was correct, and it was, exactly, to the letter.
Unlike your religion, Mohammed doesn't answer your prayers. Our Jesus does.
I have many many personal and family experiences of miracles, healings, deliverances, and impossible requests, answered.
Unlike your religion, you can't cast out any spirits, or command sicknesses or diseases to leave or depart in Mohammed's name, but we who believe, can in Jesus' name.
Unlike the Koran, the word of God, the bible, has truths/promises of God, you can put into practice and watch them work... Every time.
Unlike the Koran, the word of God, is ALIVE, and it will work ONLY for those who have the faith for whatever it is they are believing for.
Most here on CC don't know this, but the word of God is our servant or soldier, and it is to obey our commands, in Jesus' name. That is, to those who believe. If you don't or can't believe, again, nothing will happen.
You can't do that with Mohammed's name. If you tried, I can guarantee you, absolutely nothing will happen. Because the guy is DEAD, and the reason why my prayers get answered, and why I can cast out spirits, and command healings to take place, is because Jesus is ALIVE and hastens to watch over His word to perform it, and to CREATE the fruit of my lips.
If He wasn't alive, He couldn't back up His word or promises to us or cause the answers to our prayers or our words of faith to manifest in the natural.
One major difference between your God and mine is, mine provides the, strength, power, and ability, to do the work. He Himself, does the work, NOT me.
I CAN'T heal anyone, but Jesus can and does.
I CAN'T make any of my words come to pass of my own strength, power, or ability, but Jesus both can and does, to them that believe, because He IS the power of God, for He is the word of God, and the word of God IS the power of God.
Once you come to know the bible as the truth, it opens up a whole new world to you. A world that make the impossible, possible.
No religion can come close to giving what my family and I have in Jesus.
He died for all who believe and except Him PERSONALLY, with a corresponding work to that faith, such as confessing Jesus as lord and savior of your life, when you believe that in your heart.
That would include you, if you ever repented of your doubt and came to God.
One last thing. You have to work your way to heaven through your so called good works, or works of the law, just like the old testament in the bible. We don't, it's part of the Jesus package.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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There is only one divine book unchanged in both language n text.It is Quran
Since seven versions of the Koran are recorded in the Hadith, you are lying.
  1. "Muslims attack the Bible on the grounds that it sometimes has conflicting wording from different manuscripts. Yet this is exactly the case with the text of the Quran. There are many conflicting readings on the text of the Quran as Arthur Jeffery has demonstrated in his book, Material for the History of the Text of the Quran" (New York, Russell F. Moore, 1952).
  2. Mentions Variant readings in the Koran: Dashti, 23 Years, p. 28
  3. Mentions Variant readings in the Koran: Mandudi, Meaning of the Quran, pp. 17-18
  4. Mentions Variant readings in the Koran: McClintock and Strong, Cyclopedia, V152).
  5. "[the Koran] had a large number of variants, not always trifling in significance" (Islam, p. 189).
  6. "It is interesting to note that in scholarly Muslim journals, there is beginning to be a grudging acknowledgment of the fact that there are variant and conflicting readings on the text of the Quran" (One example would be Saleh al-Wahaihu, "A Study of Seven Quranic Variants," International Journal of Islamic and Arabic Studies, Vol. V (1989), #2, pp. 1-57).
  7. "The Muslin accounts of the history of the Quran texts are a mass of confusion, contradiction and inconsistencies" (Burton, Collection, p. 231).
  8. "Abdollah renounced Islam on the ground that the revelations, if from God, could not be changed at the prompting of a scribe such as he. After his apostasy he went to Mecca and joined the Qorayshites" (Dashti, 23 Years, p. 98).
  9. "There being some passages in the Quran which are contradictory, the Muhammadan doctors obviate any objection from thence by the doctrine of abrogation; for they say that God in the Quran commanded several things which were for good reasons afterwards revoked and abrogated" (E. Wherry, A Comprehensive Commentary on the Qurun, p. 110).
  10. "It is to us astounding how so compromising a procedure can have been permitted to be introduced into the system by friends and foes (Canon Sell in his work, Historical Development of the Qura, Madras: Diocesan Press, 1923, pp. 36-37).
  11. "When Muhammad died there existed no singular codex of the sacred text" (Caesar Farah, Islam: Beliefs and Observations, New York; Barrons, 1987, p. 28).
  12. "One thing only is certain and is openly recognized by tradition, namely, that there was not in existence any collection of revelations in the final form, because, as long as he was alive, new revelations were being added to the earlier ones" (The Shorter Encyclopedia of Islam p. 271). source
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Jesus saying I n father r one is not like saying" I m God or worship me,"

when the Jewish religious leaders heard Him say this, they immediately took up stones to kill Him, because they understood it perfectly well, and not believing who He is, they considered it blasphemy.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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There is only one divine book unchanged in both language n text.It is Quran
Why Did Uthman Burn Early Quran Manuscripts?

Why did Uthman need to burn the many original manuscripts of the Quran?
Because the many different manuscripts contained many discrepancies.


These different Qur’ans were a subject of study for early Islamic scholars. The Arabic librarian, Ibn Abi Ya’qub al-Nadim, made a famous catalogue of all the books in Arabic in the year 375 A.H./987 A.D that dealt with the topic of discrepancies in the different versions of the Quran existing then. He records seven books that dealt with this subject.

Books Composed about Discrepancies of the [Qur’anic] Manuscripts

“The Discrepancies between the Manuscripts of the People of al-Madinah, al-Kufah, and al-Basrah” according to al-Kisa’i.

Book of Khalaf, “Discrepancies of the Manuscripts”.

“Discrepancies of the People of al-Kufah, al-Basrah, and Syria concerning the Manuscripts”, by al-Farra.

“Discrepancies between the Manuscripts” by Abu Da’ud al-Sijistani.

Book of al-Mada’ini about the discrepancies between the manuscripts and the compiling of the Qur’an.

“Discrepancies between the Manuscripts of Syria, al-Hijaz, and al-Iraq”, by Ibn `Amir al-Yahsubi.

Book of Muhammad ibn `Abd al-Rahman al-Isbahani about discrepancies of the manuscripts.
(Al-Nadim, The Fihrist of al-Nadim – A Tenth Century survey of Muslim Culture, p. 79)


These books detail hundreds of discrepancies; for example: different numbers
of surahs, surahs were arranged differently, different words for the same verse, etc.


There were Qurans with 110 surahs. And there were Qurans with 116 surahs. And there were Qurans with 114 surahs. What are these additional surahs? Which ones should be in the Quran and which one should not be in the Quran?

Who should make the decision?

Muhammad? He was dead. Allah had been silent since Muhammad died.
Although Muhammad left behind teachers of the Quran like Ibn Mas’ud and Ubayy ibn Ka’b, the caliph, Uthman, chose to reject the Qurans of these teachers by burning them. Muhammad was no longer around to approve or disapprove of what he did.


No one knows if the genuine Quran was burnt by Uthman. source
 
Mar 21, 2019
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If we can't hear his word because we are not of God so why all this hide n seek game He could have forgiven us in heaven n we didn't have to come to earth.
But this would be against justice. God promised death to Adam for disobedience, so death He had to give. If God just forgave us from Heaven, He would have changed His nature, that of being just to unjust. So He had to come to Earth to die, to fulfil the just aspect of His unchanging nature.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,906
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I find it interesting the Muslim religion is VERY similar to the Jewish old testament times, as though they got many of their ways and laws from the old testament.
i read some of the pre-mohammedan surahs yesterday. they seem very much like second and third hand retelling of Abraham's life. For example in the spider, it talks about Sodom, but with very little detail compared to Genesis. It says Lots wife was left in the city, for example, though we know this is not true - so it is as tho the Arab knew that she had not survived, and assumed, but had not firsthand knowledge.
It also says of Sodom, that it was destroyed because they were homosexual - a mistake often repeated in the church, too. That is going on in ever city in the USA but God has not gone around blowing up every place like He did Sodom. And the prophets tell us, too, that her sin was pride, and that she had great wealth and ease, without abundance of labor, but neglected and despised the poor. Thus is not the record in the Quran, so again it is like the Quran has been written by someone who had heard, but not in detail, and not from anyone who had real knowledge firsthand.

Something far more sinister happened in Sodom, which has not been seen again in earth, with the exception possibly of Gibeah, which approached it, yet homosexuality wasn't mentioned about that place.
 
Mar 21, 2019
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i read some of the pre-mohammedan surahs yesterday. they seem very much like second and third hand retelling of Abraham's life. For example in the spider, it talks about Sodom, but with very little detail compared to Genesis. It says Lots wife was left in the city, for example, though we know this is not true - so it is as tho the Arab knew that she had not survived, and assumed, but had not firsthand knowledge.
Perhaps this was an account passed down by Lot's grandchildren, rather than Lot himself?

It also says of Sodom, that it was destroyed because they were homosexual - a mistake often repeated in the church, too.
Huh? Why else would God destroy the place? The people had become raving homosexuals, so were justly destroyed. That's the plain teaching of the bible, and even where we get the word Sodomite from.

That is going on in ever city in the USA but God has not gone around blowing up every place like He did Sodom.
In the US, it's usually not done with pride. The gays usually have to have their own gay bars etc., to stop getting killed by the normal folk. Even this doesn't save them sometimes, and so the police intervene to save them. In Sodom, the gays were the police, trying to break into Lot's home to sodomise his powerful visitors, so the Sodomites received their just reward.

Something far more sinister happened in Sodom, which has not been seen again in earth, with the exception possibly of Gibeah, which approached it, yet homosexuality wasn't mentioned about that place.
I disagree, but am interested to know what you believe more sinister than rampant sodomy.