Is God Unfair?

[kardiaoangelous]

Where does missing/falling short of the mark (sinning) regarding patience, kindness, anger, pride, etc. fit in?

To your judgment by the flesh in you.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...rn-humility-jesus-zac-poonen.html#post1051604

 

[inge]

Actually that is not quite the way it works, either. Many are tricked into believing they are the elect of God when they are not. The elect is the remnant out of natural Israel to serve in Christ with a remnant out from the Gentiles, and together, they as firstfruits with Christ make up the holy sanctuary part of God's temple. Until they actually perfected their holiness in Christ, they were as the under-priests of the Levitical priesthood, not allowed into the holiest of holies part of the sanctuary along with their high priest who is Jesus. There only approach to God was through him until they come out from under the mere imputation of holiness and have completed putting God's holiness fully on. Only then do they have direct approach to God.

But you are likely not of that elect sanctuary of God. Your place should have been taught you as beginning in the courtyard, which used to be separated by a wall of division so that the Jews had the inner courtyard (as they were the first who God began to work with for salvation), and the Gentiles had the outer courtyard.

Hello,
I am youth/teenage leader of a church, in this position I am used to explain the Bible or Bible-matters as simple as possible and always I press on their hearts: read your own Bible, don't just trust ME!

I do not see in your writing any consideration with youth or newborn Christians or less knowledge. You jump on a newborn Christian with a lot of stuff, I cannot stand there and watch you doing it.
Please consider some nicer language - as Jesus did
And consider some patience - as Jesus had

But you are likely not of that elect sanctuary of God

hhmmmm

I also don't agree with your point of view. Jesus said:
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me Joh 10:27
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Rev 3:20

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Hello,
I am youth/teenage leader of a church, in this position I am used to explain the Bible or Bible-matters as simple as possible and always I press on their hearts: read your own Bible, don't just trust ME!

I do not see in your writing any consideration with youth or newborn Christians or less knowledge. You jump on a newborn Christian with a lot of stuff, I cannot stand there and watch you doing it.
Please consider some nicer language - as Jesus did
And consider some patience - as Jesus had


hhmmmm

I also don't agree with your point of view. Jesus said:
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me Joh 10:27
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Rev 3:20

I did of course only express in a nutshell form the aim which must be focused upon. It is only common sense that you'll not teach a babe that all at once, but in bites that they can handle. If you neglect to teach it, it is not to me that you have to answer.

So don't let it annoy you if that is how you really feel.

In the end it is God who decides all matters.

Be at peace. God loves you or he would not reach out to you.

 

[Elin]

Actually that is not quite the way it works, either. Many are tricked into believing they are the elect of God when they are not. The elect is the remnant out of natural Israel to serve in Christ with a remnant out from the Gentiles, and together, they as firstfruits with Christ make up the holy sanctuary part of God's temple. Until they actually perfected their holiness in Christ, they were as the under-priests of the Levitical priesthood, not allowed into the holiest of holies part of the sanctuary along with their high priest who is Jesus. There only approach to God was through him until they come out from under the mere imputation of holiness and have completed putting God's holiness fully on. Only then do they have direct approach to God.

But you are likely not of that elect sanctuary of God. Your place should have been taught you as beginning in the courtyard, which used to be separated by a wall of division so that the Jews had the inner courtyard (as they were the first who God began to work with for salvation), and the Gentiles had the outer courtyard.

Since that wall that divided the two courtyards was torn down by Christ ending the enmity of the flesh, nailing that Old Law Covenant to the cross with him at his death, since that time there has existed only one courtyard for both Jew and Gentile.

When Gid first calls His elect, it is to that courtyard that He calls them, and then from that courtyard, after he examines their heart, He chooses them as His elect to become a part of Christ as the holy sanctuary part of the temple where they receive that rejuvenation by outpouring of Holy Spirit which renders them firstfruits with Christ.

In the courtyard they were relying only on the spirit that is on God's word, and did not yet have that outpouring.

These are the ones who come out of the Great Tribulation having washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb by faith. And their hope is that new earth which God has promised.

The elect are the 144,000 that were chosen from out of that courtyard pictured by the Israel there in Revelation chapter 7:3-8.

We see those that remain of that courtyard coming out of the great tribulation at Revelation 7:9, 14 (as in many other places in the scriptures).

The stand before God's throne upon which Christ and that 144,000 sit with Christ at the right hand of God.

They are able to stand before that throne because, Acts 7:49 "Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?"

Here is what this following verse foreshadowed:
1 Chronicles 28:2 "Then David the king stood up upon his feet, and said, Hear me, my brethren, and my people: As for me, I had in mine heart to build an house of rest for the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and for the footstool of our God, and had made ready for the building."

The Ark of the Covenant pictures the throne of God were Christ sits at God's right hand along with the cleansed to holiness 144,000.

You are in that house built as God's footstool, indeed, that Ark's footstool.

Psalms 132:7 "We will go into his tabernacles: we will worship at his footstool."

We see that of the non-elect at Revelation 7:15-17 worshiping God at the tabernacle or house, upon God's footstool which is this entire earth.

In verse 17 there, we see that they are being cared for and fed from God's word and drinking in life to bring them to holy perfection from the living fountains of waters, which are that 144,000 elect of God in Christ sitting at the right hand of God.

Many will fight against seeing this picture but you can choose to dig deeper into your Bible to prove to yourself whether it is true, if you only want to.

It is much easier just to follow what is popular. But that is a risky gamble.

Peace be with you as you consider this information, in the name of God and of our Lord Jesus Christ.

It would be helpful if you showed where this is revealed in Jesus' revelation (Heb 1:1-2), which is the NT.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

OK.

I will put something together. I have to take a break for other things at the moment.

But it is all there in the NT, just as in the OT.

If it were not so, I would not have told you.

 

[homwardbound]

hence why I asked was it unfair to Job the way God allowed the enemy to treat Job the way he did. LOL. Like Job when we feel that we are being unfairly treated by God, they don't often look at the full reason why God Treat us this way or that way. So our first reaction is to accuse, get irate, get mad, blame God, point the finger. Just like Job. If Job just for one minute saw himself, you think he would of got mad at God? not at the enemy? Job did get double of everything back, purely because the faith, and the love and the true dedication he had with God.

then the morrow of the episodes that took place is to trust in God through Christ period yes? Even Job said he knew
Job 19:25I know that my redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand on the earth.

Job was looking forward to as we are to look back at, I wonder is this true? Is God a liar, I think not!, Is God unfair? Again I think not!!!!. It is just none of us see the big picture, but God does and God said a million times to just trust God, and I haven't yet found anywhere where God ever said to figure it out. You know why because God has already got it all figured out!!!!!!

 

[homwardbound]

God is such a wonderful God, and God is right in the middle of everything, not too far one way or too far another. We are given the HS, an acute feel for when we do right and when we do wrong. We want that. God also gives us freedom, Christ washes us clean. God wants us to have faith in His healing grace, and not live with guilt. God wants us to have a keen awareness of right and wrong that conscience gives us.

I think here what you speak of would be the new Conscious of God's type of love 1 cor 13:4-13 is this correct Sister?
Loving God with all we got and all God gives to us and then as a response our neighbor as ourself, then maybe even one deeper, love our neighbor as much as Christ has loved us and forgiven us back at the cross before we were ever born here on this earth
I enjoy your posts Sister

 

[homwardbound]

I refer for to your perceptions as "the perfect dark eye syndrome'.

You are not able to endure that chastisement of God's word without you see it as evil being rendered toward you.

Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord [especially with those that rebuke you in God's love]:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

Love you deeply Brother watch out flesh wants to grab a hold of you, seek and learn from please, it does not mean a thing what was said about you, unless it true, but do not let flesh and blood have its way and when it does learn from it as I think you might have already, for God is faithful to teach us all all by God's self

 

[silverdollar]

So what about missing the mark (sinning) regarding patience, kindness, envy, pride, rudeness, self-seeking, anger, grudging, protecting, trusting, hoping, perservering?

those are the things i see in the bible that the holy spirit shows me i did wrong before, and the day before and even today.
it make me uncomfortable, but i know its true when i read it, sometimes.
the person who taught me about Jesus and the bible said that's how it is for everyone. that it's the laws God stated, and that they show us how he wants us to be, but when i read them and i know how badly i do (that lists of things you posted), even when i thought i was doing good! lol, well i was told to remember that is why Jesus died for my sins because i wasn't going to be able to do all those things right, for sure not right away. but i try more each day.

i repent of the things i do wrong, sometimes i feel so bad about it i get down on my knees.
but everytime i do and i tell him i'm sorry and i want to do better i go away feeling like he forgave me and i have a fresh start again. i don't like it when it happens but it does.
but i don't lose my faith in God because of any of that, i just get mad at myself and ashamed or what ever. but when i pray about it and cry sometimes too, i know he was good to me and brightened my mind again because i don't feel guilty anymore, like under a cloud is how it seems. not saying its okay but just that he touches me and makes me feel okay again.
happy again and i love him more.

Actually that is not quite the way it works, either. Many are tricked into believing they are the elect of God when they are not. The elect is the remnant out of natural Israel to serve in Christ with a remnant out from the Gentiles, and together, they as firstfruits with Christ make up the holy sanctuary part of God's temple. Until they actually perfected their holiness in Christ, they were as the under-priests of the Levitical priesthood, not allowed into the holiest of holies part of the sanctuary along with their high priest who is Jesus. There only approach to God was through him until they come out from under the mere imputation of holiness and have completed putting God's holiness fully on. Only then do they have direct approach to God.

But you are likely not of that elect sanctuary of God. Your place should have been taught you as beginning in the courtyard, which used to be separated by a wall of division so that the Jews had the inner courtyard (as they were the first who God began to work with for salvation), and the Gentiles had the outer courtyard.

Since that wall that divided the two courtyards was torn down by Christ ending the enmity of the flesh, nailing that Old Law Covenant to the cross with him at his death, since that time there has existed only one courtyard for both Jew and Gentile.

When Gid first calls His elect, it is to that courtyard that He calls them, and then from that courtyard, after he examines their heart, He chooses them as His elect to become a part of Christ as the holy sanctuary part of the temple where they receive that rejuvenation by outpouring of Holy Spirit which renders them firstfruits with Christ.

In the courtyard they were relying only on the spirit that is on God's word, and did not yet have that outpouring.

These are the ones who come out of the Great Tribulation having washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb by faith. And their hope is that new earth which God has promised.

The elect are the 144,000 that were chosen from out of that courtyard pictured by the Israel there in Revelation chapter 7:3-8.

We see those that remain of that courtyard coming out of the great tribulation at Revelation 7:9, 14 (as in many other places in the scriptures).

The stand before God's throne upon which Christ and that 144,000 sit with Christ at the right hand of God.

They are able to stand before that throne because, Acts 7:49 "Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?"

Here is what this following verse foreshadowed:
1 Chronicles 28:2 "Then David the king stood up upon his feet, and said, Hear me, my brethren, and my people: As for me, I had in mine heart to build an house of rest for the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and for the footstool of our God, and had made ready for the building."

The Ark of the Covenant pictures the throne of God were Christ sits at God's right hand along with the cleansed to holiness 144,000.

You are in that house built as God's footstool, indeed, that Ark's footstool.

Psalms 132:7 "We will go into his tabernacles: we will worship at his footstool."

We see that of the non-elect at Revelation 7:15-17 worshiping God at the tabernacle or house, upon God's footstool which is this entire earth.

In verse 17 there, we see that they are being cared for and fed from God's word and drinking in life to bring them to holy perfection from the living fountains of waters, which are that 144,000 elect of God in Christ sitting at the right hand of God.

Many will fight against seeing this picture but you can choose to dig deeper into your Bible to prove to yourself whether it is true, if you only want to.

It is much easier just to follow what is popular. But that is a risky gamble.

Peace be with you as you consider this information, in the name of God and of our Lord Jesus Christ.

nothing you wrote make any sense to me at all, bro. what temple?
what's the elect sanctuary of God? is that being a preacher or a priest in church?
i never said i was going to be a preacher.

my place should have been taught me as beginning in the courtyard?
what are you taling about. what courtyard.

sorry man, you're not making sense to me.
i don't get it.

do you mean there's something i have to do before Jesus saves me???
what do i have to do? i learned that when i admitted my sins and that i knew he was real and he would save me that he would and i told you already that he did.

is that what you meant i could be tricked into thinking i was a christian but i wasn't?

how did that happen?? what do i ahve to do?
this is messed up. now i don't understand any of it.

 

[homwardbound]

For you have been called to live in freedom, my brothers and sisters. But don't use your freedom to satisfy your SINFUL NATURE. Instead, use your freedom to serve one another in love. Gal. 5:13

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all accept action. That Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of WHOM I AM CHIEf. 1 Tim. 1:15


For me, it is very clear that we are a work in progress. Yes, we are saved immediately but we are not perfected until we go home. We have the God given potential, to grow in Christ-likeness, to say we are sinless is, to me, unbiblical. A delusion. But, if some wish to have this belief it's fine by me! Because it's not my call! As long as we believe in Christ crucified and Him alone, we are safe with Him. We expose the delusion in the way some of those who believe they are sinless, write here on CC. Enough said. They are on a journey too! And all will one day be revealed. God Bless. <><

Excellent Hattiebod, excellent
Yes you are right in seeinig where the mistake is made the flesh is at a very big look at me I cna do all things in Christ attitude, being flesh decieved
You Quoted "For me, it is very clear that we are a work in progress. Yes, we are saved immediately but we are not perfected until we go home"

Now Hattibod if we discontinued in our flesh to try to obey as Paul said so well in Romans 7, we believed we died to Law then Law would have no more Jurisdiction over us. This is not only written here but all over the Bible.
We are to be dead to flesh (sin nature) and alive to God
That we serve the Law of sin and death with our flesh. The law of God with the hidden man of our heart (Holy Ghost)
So if we reckon our self dead to flesh by believing it here and now, then who would you, I or anyone else be alive to and following that lead, serving God?
Romans 5:10For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Are we not saved by his resurrected life? I do not think we can be saved by the death can anyone?

So what are we to do?
Romans 6:11Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Could this be for here and now to you and to all believers? If this is so, and one recieves it; who gets all the credit? God right
What if God does not get all the credit and self worth crowds out this Love of God?
Then we would have the Pauline experience of why a messenger of Satan comes along to buffet us 2 Cor 12:7 onward soldier

You see even though God by God's gift make you sinless we are not to ever take this as if we ever did this, because we have not and can not of ourselves being in an unredeemed body, so we are to consider ourselves dead to this unredeemd body and alive to God in the Spirit of God where only God can be worshipped
Just something to search scriptures over and ask God about, so that God will always get the credit for one's good works, which truly are not ours, they are God's and God's only. We are nothimg more than participators in this miraculous work of God via the work at the cross includes the resurrection with out the resurrection we would still be lost 1 Cor 15 very clear about the resurrection of christ and what it does for the believers

 

[homwardbound]

Anyone, including myself, has that potential minister of Satan (angel of darkness masquerading as an angel of light) in them and it is also called, the man of sin, aka son of destruction (perdition), aka the fleshly man masquerading as the spiritual man.

And it is what it's reality is for anyone of us that keeps it living through ignorance, and to keep it alive means death to us.

It kills and destroys both the body of Christ in slow, subtle ways not so immediately apparent and is a sign of a walking dead fleshly person.

And these very ones are the ones that usually maintain the most appealingly kind words with which to conceal the poison their false doctrines carry.

Only the truth of God carries the spirit of life. A word not well derived of scripture and there for a subtle perversion of scripture masquerades as words of life when they are in fact that adder's poison.

So it would behoove you to deeply inspect the word to see if the truth spoken is truly validated by scripture or if it is a subtle perversion of the scriptures.

Which none of you can do if you have a way you prefer the truth of scripture to be speaking over merely desiring the full and correct understanding what is truly said.

Your focus on me is your way around doing that.

because he is what he is as he refuses to listen to God's word which is the act of a fool. And I am under no obligation to apologize for speaking the truth to anyone.

The concept of such false humility that apologizes for speaking truth is born of the adder the same as all other false doctrine and the demand of it by others is used as a way around having to listen to the spoken word of truth.

It is just one of many ways to call for the execution of God's true ministers with the symbolic axe, and part of the process of spilling righteous blood.

1 John 2:16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1 Timothy 3:6Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

again Brother you know your own heart and God knoweth too, either you are justified or you are not free choice. I only hear to warn you of Pride and proudness and over zealousness, and most impolrtantly slow down and wait for God to lead and you are bouncing on the fence with a real desire to make your point and stand as if you are in the right when God only is the righteous one, and you know this as I have had many posts with you and know you are growing in grace just as therest of us here are
All in Love to you my Brother in Christ

 

[homwardbound]

Let's look at that together, shall we?

Actually we need to fully grasp the first part of chapter 2 first, which shows that chapter one are words aimed at "my little children", aka babes in Christ not yet mature to full stature as a Christian.

1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world<[that yet lives in sin].
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments [and thereby do not sin].
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

This compares to scriptures like as: Titus 3:3 "For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another." (Of course the man of flesh will take even that last part out of context, "hateful, and hating one another" and seek to apply it to the chastisements of truth and love in the Lord as he is a very subtle deceiver.)

Now let me explain how I know it is correct to add the thought I did to the end of the following verse: 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments [and thereby do not sin].

First, that thought keeps with John's thought, "these things write I unto you, that ye sin not", and is based on the commandments being the seed of the word that is sown in us.

1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

1 Peter 1:23 "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible [seed], by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."

John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

1 Corinthians 3:6 I have planted [the life-giving spirit strong seed of that word Jesus told us about at John 6:3], Apollos watered [with more of that same word]; but God [using the spirit on that word] gave the increase.

James 1:25 "But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed."

Ephesians 2:3 "Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.[but not any longer]"

Now re-approach 1 John chapter one and then, after re-examining it the light I just shared with you, if you yet have more question, ask me.

You see but you do not explain 1 john in truth to whom and why it was written.
But I do follow what is said, but it has no value to the 1 John 1 niners, for a lot of people have been taught to ask for more forgiveness from God everytime they sin over and over again, again and agian, which today has become a Christian bar of soap, where we are accountable to keep ourselves clean before God.
And is a big fat lie and does not fit with other scriptures that state God on the cross died for the sins of the whole world once anf for all.
Now if this is true then how did thois Christian bar of soap get in ere in todays false Doctrine?
! John is written to a person that wrote him a letter on the island of Patmos about confusion in the Congreagation he was leading to know truth.
Now this was a group of people that had mixed beleif's about Jesus Christ. The ones that were in error did not beleive that Christ came in the flesh and was an appirition since all flesh is sinful. And since they did not believe Christ came in the flesh that they themselves did not have a sin nature since they believed in Christ
So read right from verse one
1 John 1:1[ The Incarnation of the Word of Life ] That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.

Then later it states for us to believe and we will recieve the forgiveness that God has provided
[h=3]1 John 1:8-10[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. [SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Now after I agreed I recieved and there is nowhere after this when one recieves anywhere we or anyone is told to ask for any more forgiveness at all under the new Covenant after the death of Christ.
I challenge anyone to find and show scripture that states to ask for any further forgiveness after one agrees with God about his Son coming in the flesh, and that we are sinful creatures of the flesh.
Remember anywhere after the death of Christ that this is stated, not before as many will ascribe Matt, Mark, Luke and John, which all have this being in the need to be forgiven prior to the cross, becuase the Law was still in placebefore Christ died on the cross
Hebrews 9:16
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

[h=3]Hebrews 9:15-17[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

 

[homwardbound]

ive only be saved for maybe a year. i knew Jesus before that, he showed me for sure he was real.
but i think i was born again about less than a year ago.
i know i was, i was there. i know what happened.
everything on this thread and most things i am reading make no sense at all.
do i have to learn all these things?

No for God himself is your teacher to all truth, for this is the only way I have ever been able to distinguish truth from error, and as I am still growing in his Grace yet today anytime I find myself in bondage, or proud or boastful then I know there is error in the truth that I accepted somewhere along the way, and am in need for seperating error from truth and the only way I found that this can be is by God, the inner man of my heart that Paul explained so well in Romans 7. for I serve the law of sin and death with my flesh and the Law of God with the hidden man of my heart, (HOLY GHOST)
I am elated that you have chosen to believe God and not man and are free to discern by the Holy Ghost of your heart to be free indeed in Christ as Christ is

 

[kardiaoangelous]

You see but you do not explain 1 john in truth to whom and why it was written.
But I do follow what is said, but it has no value to the 1 John 1 niners, for a lot of people have been taught to ask for more forgiveness from God everytime they sin over and over again, again and agian, which today has become a Christian bar of soap, where we are accountable to keep ourselves clean before God.
And is a big fat lie and does not fit with other scriptures that state God on the cross died for the sins of the whole world once anf for all.
Now if this is true then how did thois Christian bar of soap get in ere in todays false Doctrine?
! John is written to a person that wrote him a letter on the island of Patmos about confusion in the Congreagation he was leading to know truth.
Now this was a group of people that had mixed beleif's about Jesus Christ. The ones that were in error did not beleive that Christ came in the flesh and was an appirition since all flesh is sinful. And since they did not believe Christ came in the flesh that they themselves did not have a sin nature since they believed in Christ
So read right from verse one
1 John 1:1[ The Incarnation of the Word of Life ] That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.

Then later it states for us to believe and we will recieve the forgiveness that God has provided
1 John 1:8-10

New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. [SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Now after I agreed I recieved and there is nowhere after this when one recieves anywhere we or anyone is told to ask for any more forgiveness at all under the new Covenant after the death of Christ.
I challenge anyone to find and show scripture that states to ask for any further forgiveness after one agrees with God about his Son coming in the flesh, and that we are sinful creatures of the flesh.
Remember anywhere after the death of Christ that this is stated, not before as many will ascribe Matt, Mark, Luke and John, which all have this being in the need to be forgiven prior to the cross, becuase the Law was still in placebefore Christ died on the cross
Hebrews 9:16
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

Hebrews 9:15-17

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

I sincerely understand what you are saying and why. But you are not understanding certain of the verses you have concluded your idea upon, nor are you understanding what I said. For example:

[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we claim to be without<[which is entirely bad exegesis] sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. [SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

What say we look deeper at how that verse 8 really ought to read?

 

[kardiaoangelous]

1 John 1:8 If <G1437> we say <G2036> that <G3754> we have <G2192> no <G3756> sin <G0266>, we deceive <G4105> ourselves <G1438>, and <G2532> the <G3588> truth <G0225> is <G1510> not <G3756> in <G1722> us <G2254>.


Notice the different ways that word for “no” can be translated.


G3756: ou -- also (before a vowel) ouk -- pronounced: ook – and (before an aspirate) ouch -- a primary word; the absolute negative (compare 3361) adverb; no or not: KJV -- + long, nay, neither, never, no (X man), none, (can-)not, + nothing, + special, un(-worthy), when, + without, + yet but. Note also 3364, 3372.


As you can see there, it is only able to be translated as “without” under very special circumstances and that is where the door opened to human fleshly opinion.


So lets look at the literal wording of that verse in the Greek text:


“If ever we should say that sin not we are having<(as in “having accredited to the account” of our flesh, for any sin present or past would justify death to the flesh) selves we are making to err and the truth not is in us”


I could go deeper but I know for a fact that you already have enough knowledge, homward, to understand why that word “having", means what I said it does within the quotes.


And you cannot get around that John was talking to “My little children”, because you know full well we cannot be someones children as in “My”, and be their brother, too. Brothers in Christ are mature ones in Christ.

I have not claimed to have no sin against the account of my flesh, sir, but my spirit is sinless because I am obedient to Christ, regardless of how others judge me by their flesh. They only judge me because in truth they hate the word I speak.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Whomever it is that yet gives their spirit to commit sin is one spirit with the devil, for they most certainly cannot be one spirit with Christ in whom there is no sin.

1 John 3:8 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Such a man who is truly one spirit with Christ is not a forgetful hearer of the seed which is the word sown in him, but is a doer of that word, loving it so as to never forget to do it.

That is why love has two focuses, God and neighbor, with our whole heart, complete life or soul, and every crevice of our mind.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

1 John 2:16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1 Timothy 3:6Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

again Brother you know your own heart and God knoweth too, either you are justified or you are not free choice. I only hear to warn you of Pride and proudness and over zealousness, and most impolrtantly slow down and wait for God to lead and you are bouncing on the fence with a real desire to make your point and stand as if you are in the right when God only is the righteous one, and you know this as I have had many posts with you and know you are growing in grace just as therest of us here are
All in Love to you my Brother in Christ

And is it not with pride of your flesh that you judge me?

1 Corinthians 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.


Yet Paul did judge the works and doctrines he saw of others and spoke very boldly concerning them. You would have hated him if you hate me, for I speak with the boldness he did, and it was he who told us the most concerning how true love works.

 

[jmlidea]

yes

because God made us as imperfect beings, yet demands a perfection of us only he is capable of.
because God created us with sin already tainting our soul, yet condemns us for having been born into sin.
because God will never, ever be revealed in our scientific journey thru his creation.
because God's 'final solution' is our mortal death.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Love you deeply Brother watch out flesh wants to grab a hold of you, seek and learn from please, it does not mean a thing what was said about you, unless it true, but do not let flesh and blood have its way and when it does learn from it as I think you might have already, for God is faithful to teach us all all by God's self

Speaking the truth boldly is the zeal of Jesus to cleanse the Temple of the money-changers. It is a righteous zeal of a one spirit with Christ which does as Christ.

Judge by the word if you are going to judge, but even then not by a fleshly view of the word, but by making sure you have it's spirit in you which is the true sense of it by spirit, and that in no way of the flesh.

When you go by your gut instincts you cannot be sure of that. I have heard Jehovah's Witnesses call it "the ring of truth to their spirit", which is just another way around being certain it is truly of the spirit of God's word.

Such things as living by "the ring of the truth" as in gut feelings, is the flesh's pride.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

It would be helpful if you showed where this is revealed in Jesus' revelation (Heb 1:1-2), which is the NT.

Hebrews 1:1 “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets<[in this present world but that age of it after the former world perished by the flood], 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds<[both the world that perished by flood and this world which will perish by a symbolic fire]..”


I really see no problem here as surely you know that the courtyard which is now one courtyard instead of two and the two part sanctuary all belong to Christ.


It is was only the profane place that was separated out of Christ as pictured by the outer court of the Gentiles: Ezekiel 42:20 “He measured it by the four sides: it had a wall round about, five hundred reeds long, and five hundred broad, to make a separation between the sanctuary and the profane place.”


That profane place is now no longer for the ransom of Christ was applied to it:


Acts 10:15 “And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common<[koinoo -- from 2839; to make (or consider) profane (ceremonially): KJV -- call common, defile, pollute, unclean.]”


Need I explain more?


For example, can you see that Ephesians 2: 14 as noted by verse 12 is speaking of that wall of separation between sanctuary and the profane that Ezekiel 42:20 above tells us about?


I suppose I could have spoken clearer as the inner courtyard of the Jews was considered to be a kind of extension of the sanctuary as the focus of the work of the sanctuary being to that court's benefit. That is why the Jews had to ceremonially cleanse themselves before entering into it.


And do you see that the outer curtain yet remained in tact over the entrance to the holy compartment from the court?


And that it was only the inner curtain between the Holy compartment and the Holiest Compartment which was ripped, yet the curtain was still hanging in that state and that Christ was that rip so that the under-priests had to enter approach to God through Christ and those of the court through them?


Ponder it a while.


It ties into Hebrews chapter 12.