Is it OK to question church doctrine?

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tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#41
Is it okay to question church doctrine? Yes; in fact, it is good to check it against the word of God or, as you put it, "go to scripture with our questions".

It's also good to compare the teachings of "the roots movement" (or any other group) with the word of God, and to reject those teachings that contradict Scripture.

By the way, it's "the Dead Sea scrolls", not "the deep sea scrolls". ;)
The deep sea scrolls are a another thing altogether. :)
 

Blackpowderduelist

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#42
Your post is about making judgments of the good or bad of the council, but with that goal in mind it would be impossible to see the actual changes, it would just be judging.. I am urging people to look at those changes and check them with scripture.
You mean the scriptures that we have as a canon of books called the Bible, that was compiled at the aforementioned council?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#43
As long as you keep in mind that ALL CULTS AND CULTISTS also make this claim about going back to Scripture. And as we see on these forums, those claiming to go back to Scripture also misinterpret, misapply, and misunderstand what is stated in the Bible. Hence the number of flaky and quirky threads. Take your pick.

Let's focus on your quirkiness for starters. Even though the Bible says that the Old Covenant is null and void, you simply refuse to believe God and Christ, and wish to make up your own theology with a mishmash of the Old And New Covenants.

According to you the OT feasts are still valid, even though there is no temple and no Levitical priesthood. Which means a sham observance of the feasts. Christ already fulfilled the Passover, but you wish to keep on celebrating Passover with unbelieving Jews. You supposedly went back to the Bible, but ignored what did not suit you.
I am quirky! I refuse! I ignore! So we can't discuss scripture because anything I tell of how I see it is prejudged as wrong.

I believe that every single thing that the Lord has done is right and good. You say He cancelled, took it back, made the whole thing null and void. It follows that you do not believe God is a perfect God able to create a wonderful earth and human.

I believe the temple and priesthood was not a terrible mistake the Lord made and has done away with, I think it is a shadow of Christ and the kingdom. I think that when we refuse to learn of Christ through them we are not treating our Holy God correctly. That Christ replaced the priests and we are now the temple has nothing to do with celebrating and praising the Lord with feasts, there is no connection.

I believe that God gave us feasts to celebrate and gave us a way to express our love for Him and our appreciation of His plan of salvation. We can refuse to take advantage of what God gave us if that is what we choose.

And just as you have no right to tell me I am quirky, refuse to listen to the Lord, because I believe these things and you do not, or give me the right to express my thoughts freely, I am allowing you to believe God made these mistakes, or however you come up with the decisions you have made about the Lord.

I could make slams against you, also, because we believe differently and give you no right to your beliefs, except I could add that you do not respect God as Holy.

So your answer to my question in the post I thought I would like to see discussed is that you have judged me and that judgment of me means you will not accept any question about scripture, only your judgement of me.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#45
Jesus=Yeshua foretold of the apostasy, and dhow it would be rampant before He returned. Paul made mention of how it was already in existence at his time.

When doctrines of man are put as teaching from our Father, this is apostasy. Growing up in California and attending many different denominations I was given so many hateful sermans from so many pulpits, I could no longer attend them, however when the Holy Spirit did enter into my heart, I came to understand.

Now I know there are believers in dalamost every denomination, however they have yet to be called out of her.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,052
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#46
The word of the Lord does remain the same, the Lord never ever changes. That Christ will forgive us of our sins, that Christ will live in us and the holy spirit guide us, this is a constant.

But other things have changed. All of our accepted Holidays have changed. Church has changed from small groups of people who truly cared for each other to large buildings with a Sunday sermon. A great divide has come about between the Jews and gentile. As I have studied what the roots movement is about, I found it was objected to mostly because they believe the old testament is truth from the Lord, and a shadow of Christ we need to study. The established church says no, they put too much emphasis on the old testament. These are examples. Is God interested in these changes, or is keeping to the basic gospel enough?
Thanks for responding.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
#47
Jesus=Yeshua foretold of the apostasy, and dhow it would be rampant before He returned. Paul made mention of how it was already in existence at his time.

When doctrines of man are put as teaching from our Father, this is apostasy. Growing up in California and attending many different denominations I was given so many hateful sermans from so many pulpits, I could no longer attend them, however when the Holy Spirit did enter into my heart, I came to understand.

Now I know there are believers in dalamost every denomination, however they have yet to be called out of her.
Me too.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#48
Is it OK to question church doctrine?

My go to verse would be...

Acts 17:11 KJV
[11] These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#49
Huge difference between the Church and churches of varying Denominations/ideologies.

The Church establish by Jesus Himself is simply all those blood bought, born again children of the Living God. No one else can be a member of the The Church; so there really isn't anything to question.

Now, Denominational, religious ideologies/theologies/teachings are a different thing entirely.

Any person who blindly accepts the teachings of a particular Preacher/Pastor/Church Denomination/Group is not committed to the Gospel.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#50
I am quirky! I refuse! I ignore! So we can't discuss scripture because anything I tell of how I see it is prejudged as wrong.

I believe that every single thing that the Lord has done is right and good. You say He cancelled, took it back, made the whole thing null and void. It follows that you do not believe God is a perfect God able to create a wonderful earth and human.
You are overlooking the possibility that God intended the covenant at Sinai to be temporary, and that He planned for that covenant to be superseded by the new covenant in Christ. Such a design would also be "right and good".
 

Benadam

Well-known member
Aug 14, 2019
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#51
My go to verse would be...

Acts 17:11 KJV
[11] These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Bolded words changed from original post.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#52
You are overlooking the possibility that God intended the covenant at Sinai to be temporary, and that He planned for that covenant to be superseded by the new covenant in Christ. Such a design would also be "right and good".
God uses man for His good, and God used Constantine for good.

God even used Hitler, for it was after the holocaust that the Jews returned to Israel as prophecy said they would.

But it seems to me that in today's world, we should look carefully at all Constantine did and now live as near to the way God wants us to live as we can manage.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
16,237
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#53
God uses man for His good, and God used Constantine for good.

God even used Hitler, for it was after the holocaust that the Jews returned to Israel as prophecy said they would.

But it seems to me that in today's world, we should look carefully at all Constantine did and now live as near to the way God wants us to live as we can manage.
So does that mean living according to the new covenant in Christ Jesus, or according to the old covenant (which has been superseded)?
 

Pilgrimshope

Active member
Sep 2, 2020
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#54
We know from the history of the church that the first churches after Christ were called Tne Way, and those churches were very different from our church today. We also know there was a tremendous change in the accepted way church members were to live after Constantine called the Nicene Council. Since that time the leadership of the church changed, and so did the church.

Is it OK to check on these changes and compare them with scripture or should be simply know that good men have done this already and go by what they decided?

We are faced with another change in the church brought on by the deep sea scrolls. They opened up knowledge of the times before Christ that had been lost over time, bringing about better understanding of the old testament. Some scholars have used this information as a better understanding of Christ. It is called the roots movement and accused of being a movement to advocate going back to how the world was before Christ came rather than a movement to better understand Christ. We know Christ changed some things, do they accept that or is it a movement to not accept Christ. One part of this discussion would be to look at the facts of this and determine what is correct.

Do you think it is best to leave everything alone, trust how it has been for years or is it best to go to scripture with our questions?
we should be in a church that sticks to the gospel

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

if there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
‭‭2 John‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭

This was written to the early church about 1900 years ago

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3-4‬ ‭

it matters immensely if we wordhip
In truth or fable

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

should Be very careful who it is we listen to and trust even if they are called a pastor or a church it doesn’t make it so . Many have come and will come preaching the gospel that is just labeled the gospel but one was sent to preach the truth from God

“For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:49-50‬ ‭

We should look to the foundation and see if our church teaches the truth

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s salvation to believe but we are warned many would come leading people astray claiming to have great revelation claiming to be sent from God , called of God , claiming to speak for God

But the gospel remains the same

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we should think of the church more as the body of believers across the world who have the testimony of Christ in their heart and keep Gods commandments in his testimony

“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#55
Bolded words changed from original post.
Ok, so you are placing emphasis on the subjective state of the hearers (all readiness of mind) while I placed the emphasis on the 'act' of searching the Scriptures (objective Word of God).
The OP is about questioning doctrine. Do we do that by 'readiness of mind'? Or by 'searching the Scriptures'? Personally, I would keep the latter ('searching the Scriptures') in bold.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#56
God uses man for His good, and God used Constantine for good.

God even used Hitler, for it was after the holocaust that the Jews returned to Israel as prophecy said they would.

But it seems to me that in today's world, we should look carefully at all Constantine did and now live as near to the way God wants us to live as we can manage.
Through-out the history of mankind God has always appointed those, whether perceived as good or evil, to positions of authority. Some of these choices seem harsh or unlikely, but ultimately it is for the benefit for those that love Him and the ultimate glory of God.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#57
So does that mean living according to the new covenant in Christ Jesus, or according to the old covenant (which has been superseded)?
If we look at the old covenant for how it expresses God's eternal ways and what is not obsolete, it does not mean that we disobey the Lord and refuse His new and better covenant.

I think you are trying to put scripture into fleshly black and white.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
#58
Through-out the history of mankind God has always appointed those, whether perceived as good or evil, to positions of authority. Some of these choices seem harsh or unlikely, but ultimately it is for the benefit for those that love Him and the ultimate glory of God.
Here's where I get in trouble with Calvinists. I believe that God allows us to have free will. Take Stalin or Hitler for example. I don't believe that what they did was ordained, predestined or authorized by God to do what they did. He did however allow them to do the atrocities they did. He knew of course what they would do since before day 1 but, he didn't stop them.

As we covered before trials and tribulations are very much a part of our refinement process. ,Thus in a way, it helps to separate the wheat from the chaff. The chaff gets discarded but the wheat usually needs to be ground, leavened, hydrated and cooked to be of much use. So Hitler and his henchmen were allowed to pave their own ways to Hell. They did it to themselves and God is not to blame.

In the long run however life in the flesh has been temporary since the Garden of Eden. What we are motivated to do, how and why determines our eternity. Hell was not created for mankind! End of story, for now.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#59
If we look at the old covenant for how it expresses God's eternal ways and what is not obsolete, it does not mean that we disobey the Lord and refuse His new and better covenant.
What in Scripture tells you that the old covenant expresses God's eternal ways, or that it is not obsolete?

I think you are trying to put scripture into fleshly black and white.
Fleshly black and white? What is that supposed to mean?
 

Benadam

Well-known member
Aug 14, 2019
1,221
275
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#60
Ok, so you are placing emphasis on the subjective state of the hearers (all readiness of mind) while I placed the emphasis on the 'act' of searching the Scriptures (objective Word of God).
The OP is about questioning doctrine. Do we do that by 'readiness of mind'? Or by 'searching the Scriptures'? Personally, I would keep the latter ('searching the Scriptures') in bold.
No, the act of accepting the word happened before they searched the scriptures. The scriptures supported the oral tradition they heard from Paul. The Bereans didn't reject the teaching authority of Paul then search the scriptures to prove him wrong. To be like them you have to accept that there exists an authority to interpret scriptures.

The Bereans demonstrate that the truth must be approached as possible to have any hope of receiving it or finding validation for it in scriptures.