-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
That's a fact but the preachers who lost their Bible Colleges now turned into schools of theology don't know that: In the Church of Christ, East Wing the claim is that "God is a family of three persons (people in their mind) EACH has "their own" centers of conscousness, each with their own talent." For instance, the SON got tricked into suffering and dying because the father god and spirit god knew that they could trick the youth who are always raising their hands and volunteering."
Trinitarians spoke in terms of Father, Son and Spirit and not God, Jesus and a holy spirit person.
Father, son and spirit (mother) is the universal PATTERN or Thesis: God sent Jesus as a singular person to prove that ALL authority is not distributed between three equal but one more equal than the "others." Alexander Campbell noted that appealing to the "holy spirit as a people" was a cute trick people used to justify their false teaching.
Trinitarians spoke in terms of Father, Son and Spirit and not God, Jesus and a holy spirit person.
Father, son and spirit (mother) is the universal PATTERN or Thesis: God sent Jesus as a singular person to prove that ALL authority is not distributed between three equal but one more equal than the "others." Alexander Campbell noted that appealing to the "holy spirit as a people" was a cute trick people used to justify their false teaching.
This statement is just .... It's not that it doesn't honour Jesus, it just doesn't honour your interpretations.
The son is not the father but the son is God but the father is God but God is not the son ... I mean what are you talking about?
Seriously.
God is Jesus but Jesus talks to himself and prays to himself and wishes to himself and cries to himself and hides information from himself but both are manifest as three and separate but the three are actually one and God is the Father while the son is God but the spirit is both and they don't know the same things and are separate but not separate at the same time ..
Do you go round in circles with this in your house for hours while you write numbers on the walls?
The son is not the father but the son is God but the father is God but God is not the son ... I mean what are you talking about?
Seriously.
God is Jesus but Jesus talks to himself and prays to himself and wishes to himself and cries to himself and hides information from himself but both are manifest as three and separate but the three are actually one and God is the Father while the son is God but the spirit is both and they don't know the same things and are separate but not separate at the same time ..
Do you go round in circles with this in your house for hours while you write numbers on the walls?
Consider the meaning of 'honour' and 'dishonour'. I don't see how us not believing in your flawed algebraic equation for salvation is dishonoring Jesus, except to you, because it disavows your algebraic equation.
God and the father are exactly the same being. While Jesus and 'the son' are exactly the same. If the son (Jesus) is not the father (God), then Jesus is not God.
Simple logic.
God and the father are exactly the same being. While Jesus and 'the son' are exactly the same. If the son (Jesus) is not the father (God), then Jesus is not God.
Simple logic.
Last edited:
What the "logic" of unbelievers can not understand.........for they have been "blinded" to the Truth........
[h=1]Colossians
2[/h]
1 .) For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
2 .) That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
3 .) In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4 .) And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
5 .) For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
6 .) As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 .) Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 .) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 .) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 .) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
[h=2]Definition of GODHEAD[/h]1
: divine nature or essence
2
capitalized
a : god 1
b : the nature of God especially as existing in three persons —used with the
Synonymsdeity, divinity, godhood
[h=1]Colossians
2[/h]
1 .) For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
2 .) That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
3 .) In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4 .) And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
5 .) For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
6 .) As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 .) Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 .) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 .) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 .) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
[h=2]Definition of GODHEAD[/h]1
: divine nature or essence
2
capitalized
a : god 1
b : the nature of God especially as existing in three persons —used with the
Synonymsdeity, divinity, godhood
Re: Yes...Jesus IS God...
1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God,
.....and one mediator between God and men,
.....the man Christ Jesus;
I think it is dangerous to assert that this is Paul's false teaching.
Paul said that there is ONE GOD and excludes Jesus as being ONE of the "godhead" which does not here mean Theos.
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Jesus was Lord or Kurios. He was not the Almighty (Theos). However, He was filled with the divine nature including. Jesus was said to be the SON of God only after He was baptized: this was to fulfill all righteousneess because He took on the sins of the world.
theotēs , ētos, hē, Adivinity, divine nature, Ep.Col.2.9, Plu.2.359d, Luc. Icar.9, etc.; dia theotēta for religious reasons
theiotēs , ētos, hē, A.divine nature, divinity, LXX Wi.18.9,Ep.Rom.1.20, SIG867.31 (Ephesus, ii A.D.), Plu.2.665a, etc.
2. f.l.for hosiotēs, Isoc.11.26, Plu.2.857a, and so prob. in Id.Sull.6.
II. as title of Roman Emperors,
hosi-otēs , ētos, hē, A.disposition to observe divine law, piety, Pl.Prt.329c, Euthphr.14d sq., X.Cyr.6.1.47, SIG654B10 (Delph., ii B. C.), etc.; pros theōn ho. piety towards them, Plu.Alc.34 ; “pros tous theous” Id.2.359f; also, like Lat. pietas, “hē pros goneis ho.” D.S.7.4 ; “pros tēn tekousan” Id.31.27.
The CONTEXT is of people who think that they are accepted without obedience. Jesus was filled with the DIVINE NATURE of God when He OBEYED God as the mark of a SON.
2Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises:
.....that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature,
.....having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
In Ephesians 4 we are saved (kept save) by Grace through faith; we are saved FROM the worship activities people PERFORM for you if you FEED them without question.
Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Romans 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
..... [by the Spirit OF Christ 1 Peter 1:11; 2 Cor 3; Rev 19:10]
Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord,
.....which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power,
.....according to the spirit OF holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Theologians never get that course on prepositions 101. The Spirit OF Christ is the Spirit which IS HIS OWN. Man should never be separated from their spirit.
Jesus was Lord or Kurios. He was not the Almighty (Theos). However, He was filled with the divine nature including A disposition to observe divine law, piety,
2Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God,
.....and one mediator between God and men,
.....the man Christ Jesus;
I think it is dangerous to assert that this is Paul's false teaching.
Paul said that there is ONE GOD and excludes Jesus as being ONE of the "godhead" which does not here mean Theos.
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Jesus was Lord or Kurios. He was not the Almighty (Theos). However, He was filled with the divine nature including. Jesus was said to be the SON of God only after He was baptized: this was to fulfill all righteousneess because He took on the sins of the world.
theotēs , ētos, hē, Adivinity, divine nature, Ep.Col.2.9, Plu.2.359d, Luc. Icar.9, etc.; dia theotēta for religious reasons
theiotēs , ētos, hē, A.divine nature, divinity, LXX Wi.18.9,Ep.Rom.1.20, SIG867.31 (Ephesus, ii A.D.), Plu.2.665a, etc.
2. f.l.for hosiotēs, Isoc.11.26, Plu.2.857a, and so prob. in Id.Sull.6.
II. as title of Roman Emperors,
hosi-otēs , ētos, hē, A.disposition to observe divine law, piety, Pl.Prt.329c, Euthphr.14d sq., X.Cyr.6.1.47, SIG654B10 (Delph., ii B. C.), etc.; pros theōn ho. piety towards them, Plu.Alc.34 ; “pros tous theous” Id.2.359f; also, like Lat. pietas, “hē pros goneis ho.” D.S.7.4 ; “pros tēn tekousan” Id.31.27.
The CONTEXT is of people who think that they are accepted without obedience. Jesus was filled with the DIVINE NATURE of God when He OBEYED God as the mark of a SON.
2Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises:
.....that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature,
.....having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
In Ephesians 4 we are saved (kept save) by Grace through faith; we are saved FROM the worship activities people PERFORM for you if you FEED them without question.
Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Romans 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
..... [by the Spirit OF Christ 1 Peter 1:11; 2 Cor 3; Rev 19:10]
Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord,
.....which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power,
.....according to the spirit OF holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Theologians never get that course on prepositions 101. The Spirit OF Christ is the Spirit which IS HIS OWN. Man should never be separated from their spirit.
Jesus was Lord or Kurios. He was not the Almighty (Theos). However, He was filled with the divine nature including A disposition to observe divine law, piety,
2Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Last edited:
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
God is Creator through His WORD: Word is what one speaks but LOGOS means the Regulative or Governing principle. Satan understood that ALL of the Authority of God was vested in the Man Jesus of Nazareth. His merit and Driven Purpose was to denounce magic and pseudo-magic and IMAGE God's eternal power through HIS WORD. A Disciple even with the greatest of human skills can have no effect on the spiritual health of people if they are arrogant and despise those who feed them from the unlawful tithes and offerings. Jesus lacked the power to CHANGE evil minds by any kind of performance, wearing elegant clothing and having a mansion on the hill.
Matthew 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Matthew 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
Matthew 26:54 But how THEN shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?
I am not certain that God has a form in our sense of the word. Form in this passage is.
Morph-ē A.form, shape, twice in Hom. (not in Hes.), soi d' epi men morphē epeōn thou hast comeliness of words,
.....Eposgenerally, that which is uttered in words, speech
4. word of a deity, oracle, Od.12.266, Hdt.1.13,
Jesus was the FORM of the Light of God. LIGHT is an attribute of God but not another person.
Jesus was the FORM of the WORD of God which is inaudible except through Jesus. Jesus exercised His authority by SPEAKING or TEACHING. Humans can struggle to make the church GROW but that would be LEGALISM. Speak the WORD and it is in the FORM of God's speech but God does not have flesh, blood or bones. Seeing Jesus is as close as God wants us to see the unseeable.
Od.11.367 alla theos morphēn epesi stephei God adds a crown of shapeliness to his words, Od.8.170: freq. later, “morphas duo onomazein LXX To.1.13,
Outward form, opp. “eidos, hekaterō tō eideos pollai m.” Philol.5; “allattonta to hautou eidos eis pollas morphas” Pl.R.380d; “m. theōn” X.Mem.4.3.13, cf. Ep.Phil.2.6
3. kind, sort, E. Ion 382, 1068 (lyr.),
3. A model after which any thing is made, a pattern, stamp
TOBIT 1:13- Then the Most High gave me favor and good appearance in the sight of Shalmaneser, and I was his buyer of provisions.
Forma , 3. A model after which any thing is made, a pattern, stamp, last (of a shoemaker), etc.: “utendum plane sermone, ut numo, cui publica forma est,” Quint. 1, 6, 3:
2. An outline, plan, design (of an architect, etc.): “cum formam videro, quale aedificium futurum sit, scire possum,”
4. A mould which gives form to something:
b. The grammatical form of a word: “utrum in secunda forma verbum
verbum ,
D. In eccl. Lat. as a translation of logos Vulg. Joan. 1, 1; id. 1 Joan. 5, 7; id. Apoc. 19, 13. a. Orally, by word of mouth
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
God is Creator through His WORD: Word is what one speaks but LOGOS means the Regulative or Governing principle. Satan understood that ALL of the Authority of God was vested in the Man Jesus of Nazareth. His merit and Driven Purpose was to denounce magic and pseudo-magic and IMAGE God's eternal power through HIS WORD. A Disciple even with the greatest of human skills can have no effect on the spiritual health of people if they are arrogant and despise those who feed them from the unlawful tithes and offerings. Jesus lacked the power to CHANGE evil minds by any kind of performance, wearing elegant clothing and having a mansion on the hill.
Matthew 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Matthew 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
Matthew 26:54 But how THEN shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?
I am not certain that God has a form in our sense of the word. Form in this passage is.
Morph-ē A.form, shape, twice in Hom. (not in Hes.), soi d' epi men morphē epeōn thou hast comeliness of words,
.....Eposgenerally, that which is uttered in words, speech
4. word of a deity, oracle, Od.12.266, Hdt.1.13,
Jesus was the FORM of the Light of God. LIGHT is an attribute of God but not another person.
Jesus was the FORM of the WORD of God which is inaudible except through Jesus. Jesus exercised His authority by SPEAKING or TEACHING. Humans can struggle to make the church GROW but that would be LEGALISM. Speak the WORD and it is in the FORM of God's speech but God does not have flesh, blood or bones. Seeing Jesus is as close as God wants us to see the unseeable.
Od.11.367 alla theos morphēn epesi stephei God adds a crown of shapeliness to his words, Od.8.170: freq. later, “morphas duo onomazein LXX To.1.13,
Outward form, opp. “eidos, hekaterō tō eideos pollai m.” Philol.5; “allattonta to hautou eidos eis pollas morphas” Pl.R.380d; “m. theōn” X.Mem.4.3.13, cf. Ep.Phil.2.6
3. kind, sort, E. Ion 382, 1068 (lyr.),
3. A model after which any thing is made, a pattern, stamp
TOBIT 1:13- Then the Most High gave me favor and good appearance in the sight of Shalmaneser, and I was his buyer of provisions.
Forma , 3. A model after which any thing is made, a pattern, stamp, last (of a shoemaker), etc.: “utendum plane sermone, ut numo, cui publica forma est,” Quint. 1, 6, 3:
2. An outline, plan, design (of an architect, etc.): “cum formam videro, quale aedificium futurum sit, scire possum,”
4. A mould which gives form to something:
b. The grammatical form of a word: “utrum in secunda forma verbum
verbum ,
D. In eccl. Lat. as a translation of logos Vulg. Joan. 1, 1; id. 1 Joan. 5, 7; id. Apoc. 19, 13. a. Orally, by word of mouth
Last edited:
To me it is the CENTER KEY POINT in genuine saving faith.
As for widely debated, even among christians ? ? ?
Then you have a MUCH BROADER definition of what constitutes a genuine Christian than I do.
Every single REAL born again Christian that I have ever met, believes in the DEITY of Christ.
ALL of the MAINLINE Denominations teach and believe in the DEITY of Christ, in fact it is at the CENTER of our Core of Common Beliefs.
No, we do not recognize those who deny the Deity of Christ as being a genuine Christian.
In fact we consider them to be psuedo Christians.
You think I am too Narrow Minded? That would be because I follow the most narrow minded man that ever lived.
John 14:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Matthew 7:13-14 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
Your view allows for those on the broad road to be considered Christians,
My view is that all of those on the broad road are the deceived psuedo Christians.
These are those on the Broad Road:
Matthew 7:21-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
He is talking about that intimate knowledge of the LOVING Relationship that we who are born again have with HIM as LORD which means MASTER, when we accept HIM for who He is and have no other MASTER BEFORE HIM.
1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
As for widely debated, even among christians ? ? ?
Then you have a MUCH BROADER definition of what constitutes a genuine Christian than I do.
Every single REAL born again Christian that I have ever met, believes in the DEITY of Christ.
ALL of the MAINLINE Denominations teach and believe in the DEITY of Christ, in fact it is at the CENTER of our Core of Common Beliefs.
No, we do not recognize those who deny the Deity of Christ as being a genuine Christian.
In fact we consider them to be psuedo Christians.
You think I am too Narrow Minded? That would be because I follow the most narrow minded man that ever lived.
John 14:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Matthew 7:13-14 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
Your view allows for those on the broad road to be considered Christians,
My view is that all of those on the broad road are the deceived psuedo Christians.
These are those on the Broad Road:
Matthew 7:21-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
He is talking about that intimate knowledge of the LOVING Relationship that we who are born again have with HIM as LORD which means MASTER, when we accept HIM for who He is and have no other MASTER BEFORE HIM.
1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
Why are you quoting these worthless manuscripts?
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]THE EMPTYING OF GODLY FORM AND EQUALITY
[/FONT]Phil. 2
By oldhermit
Emptying of Equality:
The word translated equality is nominative and accusative plural neuter suggesting equality in quantity or quality, Thayer's p 307. This is the same language used by Jesus in Matthew 20:12. Here, Jesus relates the parable of the workers in the vineyard. The accusation by those who had labored all day was that the Master was unjust because in giving equal wages to those who had worked fewer hours than they had worked he had granted them equal status. Paul now uses this same word to express the nature of Jesus' divine status. He did not gain his divine equality by an act of seizure or robbery. This equality is his by right of divine essence.
The "who" is of course jesus. He is the subject of the text. "Though he was," represents a change of status from a prior state or condition. "In the form," defines the nature or type of his ontology. (For further explanation on the concept of μορφῇ, see my earlier post). θεοῦ - gen. spelling - "Of God." "Did not count equality with God something to hold on to." ἁρπαγμὸν is not suggesting something taken by force but holding on to that which one already possesses.
In Phil. 2:7-8, The test reads, "who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men." Let's look at the gramatical structure of tese two verses. Empty is the verb that defines the action. Equal is an adjetive that defines his nature. Equality is a noun that tells what was emptied out. This is not a passive action. This is self-actuating. No one is doing this to him. He is the one who does the emptying. What he empies out of himself is both eqality with God and divine nature. He must possess these qualities intrensically in order to empty them out of himself.
The Form of a Servant:
Taking the form of a servant is an exchange of nature. He exchanged the essence of God for the essence of man. Spirit clothes itself with flesh, John 1:1-2, Hebrews 2:14 and 10:5-10. This is much more than just a transformation from spirit to flesh. Every attribute that defined him as God will either be submitted to limitations or subjected to vulnerability. Omnipotence yields itself to dependency. The all-sufficient one now becomes fully dependent, Isaiah 12, John 5:30 and Matthew 4:1-10. He became subject to all of the same sets of determined relations that are part of all human existence. Omniscience gives way to revelation. He must learn God’s will as a man and submit to it, Hebrews 10:7, Deuteronomy 18:18-19, John 12:49-50 and 17-4. Omnipresence confines itself to the limitations of time and space. His Eternal nature is surrendered for mortality - he became subject to death. The transcendent One became an equal among his fleshly brethren, Hebrews 2:17. The unified One became the cursed of God, Mark 15:34, Galatians 3:13 and 2Corinthians 5:21. The unchanging One became subject to change. He not only changes form but his fleshly form will also be subject to all of the changes of natural biological processes.
In keeping with the posture of a servant / slave, Paul says that he did nothing through selfishness; that he did not seek his own glory but regarded others as more important than himself. He placed the needs of others above his own. He emptied himself. The servant reserves nothing of himself. He stands stripped of all personal will. All has become completely subjected. This is total surrender of control. Now, he is in the likeness of man. In the beginning, God, this God, created man in his own image, according to his own likeness. Now, this same God steps out of eternity into time to be made in the image of his creation - man. The Creator becomes the creature. The Lord of all becomes the servant of all. The Governor of the universe becomes subordinate to another and all of this by his own will.
A Cloak of Humility, Philippians 2:8:
Humility is not foreign to the character of man but rather intrinsic to it. Humility is demonstrated by obedience that characterized the life and ministry of the Lord. He "became" obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross." ‘Became’ suggests a change of status. Before assuming the posture of a man, he is not subject to deity as a subordinate creature or even as a lesser member of the triadic unity. This is a process of character development as a man, Matthew 26:52-54. He must learn obedience to the will of God as a man, completely subject to the will of the Father, Hebrews 5:8-9. He did not allow his status as Son of God to exempt him from the obligation of obedience.
Enthroned and Glorified, Philippians 2:9-11
A. "Therefore" (because he humbled himself) God highly exalted him, 9.
B. "Given a name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow," 9-10 and Romans 14:11 - "Every knee shall bow and confess that Jesus is Lord / Jehovah," Isaiah 45:23.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]THE EMPTYING OF GODLY FORM AND EQUALITY
[/FONT]Phil. 2
By oldhermit
Emptying of Equality:
The word translated equality is nominative and accusative plural neuter suggesting equality in quantity or quality, Thayer's p 307. This is the same language used by Jesus in Matthew 20:12. Here, Jesus relates the parable of the workers in the vineyard. The accusation by those who had labored all day was that the Master was unjust because in giving equal wages to those who had worked fewer hours than they had worked he had granted them equal status. Paul now uses this same word to express the nature of Jesus' divine status. He did not gain his divine equality by an act of seizure or robbery. This equality is his by right of divine essence.
The "who" is of course jesus. He is the subject of the text. "Though he was," represents a change of status from a prior state or condition. "In the form," defines the nature or type of his ontology. (For further explanation on the concept of μορφῇ, see my earlier post). θεοῦ - gen. spelling - "Of God." "Did not count equality with God something to hold on to." ἁρπαγμὸν is not suggesting something taken by force but holding on to that which one already possesses.
In Phil. 2:7-8, The test reads, "who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men." Let's look at the gramatical structure of tese two verses. Empty is the verb that defines the action. Equal is an adjetive that defines his nature. Equality is a noun that tells what was emptied out. This is not a passive action. This is self-actuating. No one is doing this to him. He is the one who does the emptying. What he empies out of himself is both eqality with God and divine nature. He must possess these qualities intrensically in order to empty them out of himself.
The Form of a Servant:
Taking the form of a servant is an exchange of nature. He exchanged the essence of God for the essence of man. Spirit clothes itself with flesh, John 1:1-2, Hebrews 2:14 and 10:5-10. This is much more than just a transformation from spirit to flesh. Every attribute that defined him as God will either be submitted to limitations or subjected to vulnerability. Omnipotence yields itself to dependency. The all-sufficient one now becomes fully dependent, Isaiah 12, John 5:30 and Matthew 4:1-10. He became subject to all of the same sets of determined relations that are part of all human existence. Omniscience gives way to revelation. He must learn God’s will as a man and submit to it, Hebrews 10:7, Deuteronomy 18:18-19, John 12:49-50 and 17-4. Omnipresence confines itself to the limitations of time and space. His Eternal nature is surrendered for mortality - he became subject to death. The transcendent One became an equal among his fleshly brethren, Hebrews 2:17. The unified One became the cursed of God, Mark 15:34, Galatians 3:13 and 2Corinthians 5:21. The unchanging One became subject to change. He not only changes form but his fleshly form will also be subject to all of the changes of natural biological processes.
In keeping with the posture of a servant / slave, Paul says that he did nothing through selfishness; that he did not seek his own glory but regarded others as more important than himself. He placed the needs of others above his own. He emptied himself. The servant reserves nothing of himself. He stands stripped of all personal will. All has become completely subjected. This is total surrender of control. Now, he is in the likeness of man. In the beginning, God, this God, created man in his own image, according to his own likeness. Now, this same God steps out of eternity into time to be made in the image of his creation - man. The Creator becomes the creature. The Lord of all becomes the servant of all. The Governor of the universe becomes subordinate to another and all of this by his own will.
A Cloak of Humility, Philippians 2:8:
Humility is not foreign to the character of man but rather intrinsic to it. Humility is demonstrated by obedience that characterized the life and ministry of the Lord. He "became" obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross." ‘Became’ suggests a change of status. Before assuming the posture of a man, he is not subject to deity as a subordinate creature or even as a lesser member of the triadic unity. This is a process of character development as a man, Matthew 26:52-54. He must learn obedience to the will of God as a man, completely subject to the will of the Father, Hebrews 5:8-9. He did not allow his status as Son of God to exempt him from the obligation of obedience.
Enthroned and Glorified, Philippians 2:9-11
A. "Therefore" (because he humbled himself) God highly exalted him, 9.
B. "Given a name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow," 9-10 and Romans 14:11 - "Every knee shall bow and confess that Jesus is Lord / Jehovah," Isaiah 45:23.
I became a Disciple at about age 60 and that stopped me from using the Scripture to define dogma--especially a dogma which has led a bunch to the burning stake. The neo-trinitarianism or tritheism was invented by H. Leo Boles in 1938 among churches of Christ and became the divisive view promoted by the GA study guides.
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
God is Creator through His WORD: Word is what one speaks but LOGOS means the Regulative or Governing principle. Satan understood that ALL of the Authority of God was vested in the Man Jesus of Nazareth. His merit and Driven Purpose was to denounce magic and pseudo-magic and IMAGE God's eternal power through HIS WORD.
CLICK FOR Dostoyevski warned about people who in the end plan to disable Jesus:
Christ Rejected the Ministry of Bread Offered by the Inquisition
Christ Rejected the Ministry of Miracles by the Inquisition
Christ Rejected the Ministry of Mysteries by the Inquisition
Philippians 2:6ASV who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,
The FORM of God as the WORD (Dabar, Logos also personified) was what He SPOKE.
John 1:1BBE From the first he was the Word, and the Word was in relation with God and was God.
John 1:2 This Word was from the first in relation with God.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Philippians 2.6 hos en morphē theou huparkhōn oukh harpagmon hēgēsato to einai isa theō,
The Latin used Deeo or Dio theos can include false gods or rulers
Grasped does not mean that JESUS was GOD and he gave up his godness. When God gave Jesus of Nazareth ALL of the authority his friends though was a father, spirit (mother) and infant son, He was given the Logos (regulative principle) by which He could be a Senior Pastor: He became a DEACON
hēgeomai , Dor. hag- c. with hodon added, hodon hēgēsasthai to go before on the way, Od.10.263; “hē. tini tēn hodon” Hdt.9.15. f. of logical priority, to be antecedent, g. hēgoumenon, to, the leading principle, the main thing,
The church is PLAGUED with men who usurp the authority of God and claim that a spirit told them to lie about all of the "olden Bible." The grasp or RAPTURE their church and ooops! suddenly up to half of the owners show up as empty pews: THAT is the meaning of the rapture.
harpag-mos , ho, robbery, rape, prize to be GRASPED Phil 2:6
Latin: răpīna , ae, f. rapio. I. Robbery, plundering, pillage, rapine. ALSO means a TURNIP FIELD.
Jesus did not HAVE equality and even with full authority did NOT GRASP that which He did not have. At age 12 (when children should be Bible Students) Jesus was able to wrestle with the clergy. However, he FOUND himself as the son of a carpenter. He took on His priestly office at aged 30 and we have no reliable information that he maybe killed and resurrected one of his playmates.
Matthew 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
Jesus says MY WORDS are SPIRIT and they are LIFE (John 6:63). He performed few miracles to validated His authority and the Jews were upset that He was not going to feed them and lead them into military victory. He DIED for speaking ONLY what the Father breathed (Spirit) into Him. So, He was not the REGULATIVE or governing principle
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
When Jesus exercised His power given to Him by God (and proving that He did not have that which the One God the Father gave Him) and He fed the masses, He understood that turning the School of Christ into a Social Services Gospel will have no effect because they will near the WORD as the only source of Spirit and Life when they show up for the food.
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
God is Creator through His WORD: Word is what one speaks but LOGOS means the Regulative or Governing principle. Satan understood that ALL of the Authority of God was vested in the Man Jesus of Nazareth. His merit and Driven Purpose was to denounce magic and pseudo-magic and IMAGE God's eternal power through HIS WORD.
CLICK FOR Dostoyevski warned about people who in the end plan to disable Jesus:
Christ Rejected the Ministry of Bread Offered by the Inquisition
Christ Rejected the Ministry of Miracles by the Inquisition
Christ Rejected the Ministry of Mysteries by the Inquisition
Philippians 2:6ASV who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,
The FORM of God as the WORD (Dabar, Logos also personified) was what He SPOKE.
John 1:1BBE From the first he was the Word, and the Word was in relation with God and was God.
John 1:2 This Word was from the first in relation with God.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Philippians 2.6 hos en morphē theou huparkhōn oukh harpagmon hēgēsato to einai isa theō,
The Latin used Deeo or Dio theos can include false gods or rulers
Grasped does not mean that JESUS was GOD and he gave up his godness. When God gave Jesus of Nazareth ALL of the authority his friends though was a father, spirit (mother) and infant son, He was given the Logos (regulative principle) by which He could be a Senior Pastor: He became a DEACON
hēgeomai , Dor. hag- c. with hodon added, hodon hēgēsasthai to go before on the way, Od.10.263; “hē. tini tēn hodon” Hdt.9.15. f. of logical priority, to be antecedent, g. hēgoumenon, to, the leading principle, the main thing,
The church is PLAGUED with men who usurp the authority of God and claim that a spirit told them to lie about all of the "olden Bible." The grasp or RAPTURE their church and ooops! suddenly up to half of the owners show up as empty pews: THAT is the meaning of the rapture.
harpag-mos , ho, robbery, rape, prize to be GRASPED Phil 2:6
Latin: răpīna , ae, f. rapio. I. Robbery, plundering, pillage, rapine. ALSO means a TURNIP FIELD.
Jesus did not HAVE equality and even with full authority did NOT GRASP that which He did not have. At age 12 (when children should be Bible Students) Jesus was able to wrestle with the clergy. However, he FOUND himself as the son of a carpenter. He took on His priestly office at aged 30 and we have no reliable information that he maybe killed and resurrected one of his playmates.
Matthew 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
Jesus says MY WORDS are SPIRIT and they are LIFE (John 6:63). He performed few miracles to validated His authority and the Jews were upset that He was not going to feed them and lead them into military victory. He DIED for speaking ONLY what the Father breathed (Spirit) into Him. So, He was not the REGULATIVE or governing principle
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
When Jesus exercised His power given to Him by God (and proving that He did not have that which the One God the Father gave Him) and He fed the masses, He understood that turning the School of Christ into a Social Services Gospel will have no effect because they will near the WORD as the only source of Spirit and Life when they show up for the food.
Last edited:
I have to agree with you, Oldhermit! And I noticed the quotes too! What were those books, and who on earth quotes Tobith or the Latin Vulgate as authoritative sources??
Someone is just very mixed up about which books are canon, and how to read the Greek. Sadly, you can not just plug things into the Blue Bible or some other backwards KJV site, and come up knowing anything about the original languages!
Someone is just very mixed up about which books are canon, and how to read the Greek. Sadly, you can not just plug things into the Blue Bible or some other backwards KJV site, and come up knowing anything about the original languages!