Is justification by faith alone?

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SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#61
Mar 12, 2014
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#61
crossnote said:
Sounds like 'in Christ' to me...
Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
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The "us" is a reference to the group "Christian", the group "Saints", the group that is "in Christ Jesus", Eph 1:1.

The "us" is not a reference to certain individual God randomly, unconditionally chose to be in Christ.

If you agree with Stonethrower, then show us the verse that says unbelievers are saved. I can show you a verse that says unbelievers are "condemned already", Jn 3:18, so show us the verse that says unbelievers are "saved already" ie already "in Christ Jesus".
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#63
Nov 24, 2012
30,770
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#63
SeaBass said:
The "us" is a reference to the group "Christian", the group "Saints", the group that is "in Christ Jesus", Eph 1:1.

The "us" is not a reference to certain individual God randomly, unconditionally chose to be in Christ.

If you agree with Stonethrower, then show us the verse that says unbelievers are saved. I can show you a verse that says unbelievers are "condemned already", Jn 3:18, so show us the verse that says unbelievers are "saved already" ie already "in Christ Jesus".
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I merely pointed to Eph 1:4, your response pointed me to your rationalizing of what you believe it means. I don't try to explain or explain away God's Word just because I don't understand the 'how'.
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#65
Mar 12, 2014
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#65
crossnote said:
A non answer. How much does the bible say we must we believe or do as the poster was claiming?
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I guess since you will not read the bible for yourself, I will tell you the bible says one must believe, Jn 8:24; repent, Lk 13:3,5 confess, Mt 10:32,33; and be baptized, Mk 16:16 to be come a Christian....that is how much one must do to become a Christian.

Eph 2:10; Rev 2:10,26 shows how much one must do to remain a faithful Christian.


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Lk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?


And you are asking the Lord "how much" of the things the Lord has said to do must I do?????????
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#66
#66
SeaBass said:
I guess since you will not read the bible for yourself, I will tell you the bible says one must believe, Jn 8:24; repent, Lk 13:3,5 confess, Mt 10:32,33; and be baptized, Mk 16:16 to be come a Christian....that is how much one must do to become a Christian.

Eph 2:10; Rev 2:10,26 shows how much one must do to remain a faithful Christian.


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Lk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?


And you are asking the Lord "how much" of the things the Lord has said to do must I do?????????
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this is called entering by the wide gate. so how wide the gate has to be to be able to fit all those works through it so you can get in?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#67
#67
SeaBass said:
Again, James said the devils believe and tremble. The devils belief is dead not in the sense it does not exist but is dead in that it is inactive, has no works.

So James and Paul, both being inspired writers, are correct in saying one is justified by an obedient faith not by works of merit.
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can one belief and not have faith?
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#68
Mar 12, 2014
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#68
eternally-gratefull said:
this is called entering by the wide gate. so how wide the gate has to be to be able to fit all those works through it so you can get in?
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You miss the point made by Jesus. The narrow gate is strait (difficult) to enter so one must strive to enter that difficult-strait gate. Doing nothing/no works is not striving. Doing nothing cannot get one into that difficult gate.
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#69
Mar 12, 2014
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#69
eternally-gratefull said:
can one belief and not have faith?
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People can believe but if it has no works, inactive it is dead.

Jn 12:42 the chief priests believed but did not confess. Since their belief was not active (no confession) it was dead. Dead does not mean they had no belief but the belief they had was inactive, no works.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#70
#70
SeaBass said:
You miss the point made by Jesus. The narrow gate is strait (difficult) to enter so one must strive to enter that difficult-strait gate. Doing nothing/no works is not striving. Doing nothing cannot get one into that difficult gate.
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yep the narrow gate is difficult. Look how many people would rather trust in self and their works to get them in, then depend totally on God to walk them in..it is against human nature to give your life totally in the hands of other. that is why it is so hard to enter in,

Strive means to keep striving in faith, not keep working to hope you get there.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#71
#71
SeaBass said:
People can believe but if it has no works, inactive it is dead.

Jn 12:42 the chief priests believed but did not confess. Since their belief was not active (no confession) it was dead. Dead does not mean they had no belief but the belief they had was inactive, no works.
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I did not ask you this.

I said can one believe and not have faith. Do you have an answer?
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#72
Mar 12, 2014
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#72
eternally-gratefull said:
I did not ask you this.

I said can one believe and not have faith. Do you have an answer?
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One can believe in many things and not have the faith the bible teaches.

One can believe in faith only which is not part of the faith the bible teaches.
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
#73
#73
Again I can do nothing
Jesus can do anything
with prayer you will not break a commandment
no way.


Mic_4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

I am saying

come let us go unto the mountain of the Lord


before Jesus arrives there will be 144,000 people who will be COMPLETELY in Christthe word of God
no guile
no spot no wrinkle
they are those who folowed the lamb the word of God
you can be one of them
The pharisees could have been one of them
but they knew better...

they will not have one spot or wrinkle in their character
this is a gift of God

somehow they stopped sinning, how?

born again.

gift of repentance
gift of putting away sins

gift of changing mind and desires.

all glory to God

Key to sanctification is willing heart and obedience

God never changes


His grace is sufficient for you and me

I can do all things through christ.

With the power of the holy spirit
we must be willing to follow all that God says
not do
to FOLLOW

If like Cain you have your own worship

you will not be in christ the word of God.


it is the willingness to follow more and more that counts that is sanctification'

they are still children growing

and I will pray to change to follow all that god told me

but preaching that we dont have to do anything is false gospel.

we need to pray and repent and follow the Bible
Or basically the heart is still fleshly in lusts.


Now we are not there yet

Before Jesus comes there will be 144,000 who arrived at totaly obedience to the bible

It takes dedication and prayer to give up bad desires

OSAS gives them false hope.

soldiers sleeping and playing worldly games
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
#74
#74
So
Justification is not by faith alone

it is by FAITH through GRACE

Grace the power to obey God
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#75
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
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#75
eternally-gratefull said:
yep the narrow gate is difficult. Look how many people would rather trust in self and their works to get them in, then depend totally on God to walk them in..it is against human nature to give your life totally in the hands of other. that is why it is so hard to enter in,

Strive means to keep striving in faith, not keep working to hope you get there.
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And the difficulty of the strait gate requires striving (not doing nothing) to enter.

No striving = no entering.
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
#76
#76
Correct.

JESUS SAID:

how willl you be saved?
Consecrate your LIFE and EVERYTHING to God nw

those who cant do this do not have what it takes. to be one of the 144,000

everyone can have it

what does it take?
a CONVERSION of LIFE
by HOLY SPIRIT DIVINE POWER

EVERYONE CAN HAVE THIS just ask for it.

OSAS makes them think they wont ask or need to

the only way you will not be saved

is to NOT ASK to be saved from your sinning lifestyle.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#77
#77
SeaBass said:
One can believe in many things and not have the faith the bible teaches.

One can believe in faith only which is not part of the faith the bible teaches.
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again you did not answer. are you afraid?

Can I believe in anything, yet not have faith in that same thing?

it is not a hard question.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#78
#78
SeaBass said:
And the difficulty of the strait gate requires striving (not doing nothing) to enter.

No striving = no entering.
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believe you me bud, it takes alot of energy to trust in god alone.

you do not believe me, look at all the religions on earth which teach we get right with God based on human deeds and works. 99 % of them teach this.

again, that is the wide gate, not christ alone.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#79
#79
2Thewaters said:
Correct.

JESUS SAID:

how willl you be saved?
Consecrate your LIFE and EVERYTHING to God nw

those who cant do this do not have what it takes. to be one of the 144,000

everyone can have it

what does it take?
a CONVERSION of LIFE
by HOLY SPIRIT DIVINE POWER

EVERYONE CAN HAVE THIS just ask for it.

OSAS makes them think they wont ask or need to

the only way you will not be saved

is to NOT ASK to be saved from your sinning lifestyle.
Click to expand...

we need to be saved from hell. that is what we need to be saved from.

that is what salvation is. until your saved, you are dead. and you can live a sin free lifestyle all you want, and you will still go to hell.
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#80
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
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0
#80
eternally-gratefull said:
again you did not answer. are you afraid?

Can I believe in anything, yet not have faith in that same thing?

it is not a hard question.
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One can believe in the doctrine of "faith only" and have faith in that doctrine.


One can believe in the doctrine of "faith only" but his belief and faith in that doctrine does not make that doctrine part of the faith the bible teaches.

I have answered your question twice. How does your question prove that justification is by faith only?
 
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