Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?

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K

Kerry

Guest
The OT was written in Hebrew except for portions of Daniel and Ezra, or 1% of the OT. The OT is 78% of the bible. Of the NT, 12% are quotations from the Hebrew OT. The OT is scripture.
But, in the OT there was no forgiveness of sins ( they were only covered and not forgiven). In the NT Christ willingly died on the cross for our sins. Thats why Job said " I know my redeemer liveth". We need a redeemer and the law could not provide it., In fact the only thing law did was reveal ans condemn our sin and provided no remedy for it. Keeping this or that did nothing. Even if you kept it all you still had to rely on a priest to offer the blood of the lamb on the mercy seat for your sins to be covered and Not forgiven. Why do you think that the OT saints longed for the cross of Christ?
 
K

Kerry

Guest
Moses could not enter the presence of God until Christ died on the cross.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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But, in the OT there was no forgiveness of sins ( they were only covered and not forgiven). In the NT Christ willingly died on the cross for our sins. Thats why Job said " I know my redeemer liveth". We need a redeemer and the law could not provide it., In fact the only thing law did was reveal ans condemn our sin and provided no remedy for it. Keeping this or that did nothing. Even if you kept it all you still had to rely on a priest to offer the blood of the lamb on the mercy seat for your sins to be covered and Not forgiven. Why do you think that the OT saints longed for the cross of Christ?
Animal blood did noting, it was a place holder. Looking forward to the reason sacrificial Law was invented in the first place.

How is this a testament against the rest of Yahweh's Law?

Ezekiyl 18:20-28, "20 The soul that sins, it will die. The son will not bear the iniquity of the father, nor will the father bear the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he has committed, and keep all My statutes, and do that which is Lawful and right, then he will surely live; he will not die. And his transgressions that he has committed will not be mentioned against him; in his righteousness that he has done, he will live. Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? says Father Yahweh: No, but rather that he would turn back from his wicked ways, and live. But when the righteous turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does--should he live? All his righteousness that he has done will not be mentioned in his behalf. In his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them he will die. Yet you say; The way of Yahweh is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israyl: Is not My way equal? Are not your ways unequal? When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity and dies, it is because of the iniquity he has done, that he will die. Again, when the wicked man turns away from his wickedness that he has committed, and does that which is Lawful and right, he will save himself, and live. Because he considered, and turned away from all his transgressions that he has committed, he will surely live; he will not die."

Romans 2:12, "For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law."

Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

Acts 17:30-31, “In the past Yahweh winked at such ignorance, but now He commands all men everywhere to repent! For He has appointed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness, by a Man whom He has ordained; and He has given evidence to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

Leviticus 20:7-8, "Consecrate and sanctify yourselves therefore, and be holy, for I am Yahweh your Father. You must therefore keep My statutes, and perform and do them; I am Yahweh Who consecrates and sanctifies you."

Deuteronomy 6:25, "And it will be OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS, if we observe to
do all of this Law before Yahweh our Father, as He has commanded us."

1 Yahchanan 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

Acts 17:30-31, “In the past Yahweh winked at such ignorance, but now He commands all men everywhere to repent! For He has appointed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness, by a Man whom He has ordained; and He has given evidence to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”

Revelation 22:12, “And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be.”

Yaaqob (James) 2:26, “For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also.”

2 Timothy 4:3-4, “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts they will heap to themselves teachers, who will tickle their ears, and they will turn away their ears from the truth, and be turned to fables.”
 
K

Kerry

Guest
Animal blood did noting, it was a place holder. Looking forward to the reason sacrificial Law was invented in the first place.

How is this a testament against the rest of Yahweh's Law?

Ezekiyl 18:20-28, "20 The soul that sins, it will die. The son will not bear the iniquity of the father, nor will the father bear the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he has committed, and keep all My statutes, and do that which is Lawful and right, then he will surely live; he will not die. And his transgressions that he has committed will not be mentioned against him; in his righteousness that he has done, he will live. Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? says Father Yahweh: No, but rather that he would turn back from his wicked ways, and live. But when the righteous turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does--should he live? All his righteousness that he has done will not be mentioned in his behalf. In his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them he will die. Yet you say; The way of Yahweh is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israyl: Is not My way equal? Are not your ways unequal? When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity and dies, it is because of the iniquity he has done, that he will die. Again, when the wicked man turns away from his wickedness that he has committed, and does that which is Lawful and right, he will save himself, and live. Because he considered, and turned away from all his transgressions that he has committed, he will surely live; he will not die."

Romans 2:12, "For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law."

Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

Acts 17:30-31, “In the past Yahweh winked at such ignorance, but now He commands all men everywhere to repent! For He has appointed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness, by a Man whom He has ordained; and He has given evidence to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

Leviticus 20:7-8, "Consecrate and sanctify yourselves therefore, and be holy, for I am Yahweh your Father. You must therefore keep My statutes, and perform and do them; I am Yahweh Who consecrates and sanctifies you."

Deuteronomy 6:25, "And it will be OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS, if we observe to
do all of this Law before Yahweh our Father, as He has commanded us."

1 Yahchanan 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

Acts 17:30-31, “In the past Yahweh winked at such ignorance, but now He commands all men everywhere to repent! For He has appointed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness, by a Man whom He has ordained; and He has given evidence to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”

Revelation 22:12, “And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be.”

Yaaqob (James) 2:26, “For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also.”

2 Timothy 4:3-4, “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts they will heap to themselves teachers, who will tickle their ears, and they will turn away their ears from the truth, and be turned to fables.”
Above post.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
Why would you want to do something that covers your inability when you can be free. David said I pant for you as a deer pants for water. Jesus said drink of the water I give and you will never thirst again.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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man 1: Hey the Creator made this awesome set of rules that shows us how to love Him, how to love others, and basically how we should behave!

man 2: You evil prideful man, quit speaking that nonsense and acting like you are better than everyone else!
Man who has come to Christ: That awesome set of rules that you thought were instructions on how to love were really

designed to bring you to Christ, so He could not only show you how it is done but so He could give you the ability as well.

Man who thinks he keeps the law by his own strength: You licentious, sinful, man. Get back to working at the law like the rest

of us. What do you think you are, saved?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"

Mattithyah 5:20-30, ""For I say to you: Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will certainly not enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment; But I say to you: Whoever is angry with his brother will be in danger of the judgment! Again, anyone who says; Raca! insulting your brother, will be in danger of the Sanhedrin, but whoever says: Nabel! desiring them to fall away, will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there you remember that your brother has something against you; Leave your gift there before the altar, and go first and be reconciled with your brother; then come and offer your gift. Settle a controversy with your accuser quickly, before he gets you into court; or your adversary may deliver you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be put into prison. Truly I say to you: You will never come out of there until you have paid the last penny. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not commit adultery; But I say to you: Whoever looks on a woman with lust for her, has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So if your right eye causes you to offend; sin, gouge it out and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna. Or if your right hand causes you to offend, cut it off and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna."

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

New International Version Mt 23:2-3
"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

King James Bible Mt 23:2-3
"Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

However Yahweh has left us truth!

Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah
Mattithyah 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to thier takanot (reforms) and thier ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."
 
K

Kerry

Guest
Just who exactly do you think that YHWH is?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Can any of you realize that some people obey Yahweh's Law because they love Yahweh and their heart has been changed to detest evil and take joy in doing what is right?

Do none of you feel terrible when you sin (sin is breaking of the Law) or is feeling bad showing satan won and one must be a sociopath and havee no remose to be saved in your opinion?

Is it humanly possible that I enjoy doing the will of Yahweh?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Just who exactly do you think that YHWH is?
The Creator of the heavens and earth, the perfect standard of righteousness, and my Father.

Isayah 47:4, "Our Redeemer, Yahweh of hosts is His Name, the Holy One of Israyl!"
 
K

Kerry

Guest
The law is perfect, the law came from God. The reason was to show mans imperfection, Can you attain to it? Nobody else in History or modern times has been able to. Moses couldn't and he was the one that the law came through. Not even king David could keep it. Isaiah, said I am a man of unclean lips. The only way possible to come close to Gods perfection is to have faith in the work of the cross and not your own. If you trying by your own works then you are stuck in Romans 7 if you place your faith in Christ then you are in Romans 8. In revelation, does it say that they overcame by the works of the law? No it say's that they overcame by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony. The word of of their testimony is their declaration of faith in Christ.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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The law is perfect, the law came from God. The reason was to show mans imperfection, Can you attain to it? Nobody else in History or modern times has been able to. Moses couldn't and he was the one that the law came through. Not even king David could keep it. Isaiah, said I am a man of unclean lips. The only way possible to come close to Gods perfection is to have faith in the work of the cross and not your own. If you trying by your own works then you are stuck in Romans 7 if you place your faith in Christ then you are in Romans 8. In revelation, does it say that they overcame by the works of the law? No it say's that they overcame by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony. The word of of their testimony is their declaration of faith in Christ.
So because none are perfect trow Yahweh's Instructions out the window?

What?

You mention Romans 8...

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

The carnal CAN NOT, I repeat, CAN NOT subject itself to Yahweh's Law, and according to Scripture can not please Yahweh.


Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.
 
D

danschance

Guest
So because none are perfect trow Yahweh's Instructions out the window?
This is another attempt to shackle NT believers to the fulfilled law of of the OT, which we are free from. We are under the the law of Christ, something you reject but Paul taught.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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This is another attempt to shackle NT believers to the fulfilled law of of the OT, which we are free from. We are under the the law of Christ, something you reject but Paul taught.
Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law

Romans 13:9, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself."

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
 
K

Kerry

Guest
No they are not thrown out. Should a christian steal or kill or covet their neighbors wife. Look at them closely, these are things that flesh enjoys. Have you ever said I'll kill you, have ever looked at women and said ummm. Hve you ever been so angry at person that you wanted to inflict harm. Have you ever said I can do that ( pertaining to the law). Have you ever read the bible and when a man failed such as they all did and said " I wouldn't have done that". I meant maybe if saw Bathsheba bathing I would turn my head, Even as king and could have whatever I wanted. It would take the Holy Spirit working in me by faith in the cross not to take a second glance. The fact is brother, the closer you get to God the more you find out just how sinful you are. They Holy Spirit works in us and through us to produce fruit and not by law. It is by my Spirit saith the Lord.
 
D

danschance

Guest
Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law

Romans 13:9, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself."

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
This says it all:

But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of
the Spirit and
not in the old way of the written code. Romans 7:6



 
D

danschance

Guest
No they are not thrown out. Should a christian steal or kill or covet their neighbors wife. Look at them closely, these are things that flesh enjoys. Have you ever said I'll kill you, have ever looked at women and said ummm. Hve you ever been so angry at person that you wanted to inflict harm. Have you ever said I can do that ( pertaining to the law). Have you ever read the bible and when a man failed such as they all did and said " I wouldn't have done that". I meant maybe if saw Bathsheba bathing I would turn my head, Even as king and could have whatever I wanted. It would take the Holy Spirit working in me by faith in the cross not to take a second glance. The fact is brother, the closer you get to God the more you find out just how sinful you are. They Holy Spirit works in us and through us to produce fruit and not by law. It is by my Spirit saith the Lord.
Exactly. They call all those who do not obey the old fulfilled Mosaic law "antinomians" or lawless. They can't seem to see that we are under the law of Christ as Paul clearly taught.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
This says it all:
But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of
the Spirit and
not in the old way of the written code. Romans 7:6
If this verse is as clear cut as you present it, then it contradicts the Messiah and Shaul's own words.

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

However if one looks deeper, and realizes Shaul (Paul) was a pharisee and grew up in a system that took the literal text and twisted it into loopholes to "defeat the Law"

example:

They take Exodus 23:2, "Do not follow the crowd in doing evil. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd."

After Midrashic interpretation is applied, they come out with : "follow the crowd."

Thus even when one disagrees or knows something is wrong he must, "follow the crowd," or as the Talmud puts it in Baba Metzia 59b (top of post), "after the majority must one incline."

and Yahshua brought the people the Spirit of the Law (its true intent below) you may begin to understand what Shaul was saying.

Mattithyah 5:20-30, ""For I say to you: Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will certainly not enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment; But I say to you: Whoever is angry with his brother will be in danger of the judgment! Again, anyone who says; Raca! insulting your brother, will be in danger of the Sanhedrin, but whoever says: Nabel! desiring them to fall away, will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there you remember that your brother has something against you; Leave your gift there before the altar, and go first and be reconciled with your brother; then come and offer your gift. Settle a controversy with your accuser quickly, before he gets you into court; or your adversary may deliver you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be put into prison. Truly I say to you: You will never come out of there until you have paid the last penny. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not commit adultery; But I say to you: Whoever looks on a woman with lust for her, has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So if your right eye causes you to offend; sin, gouge it out and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna. Or if your right hand causes you to offend, cut it off and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna."
 
D

danschance

Guest
No, it only contradicts your ideas of what the bible is about.