Is unconditional election biblical?

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Is unconditional election biblical?

  • Yes, unconditional election is biblical.

    Votes: 23 43.4%
  • No , unconditional election is not biblical.

    Votes: 27 50.9%
  • I don't know.

    Votes: 3 5.7%

  • Total voters
    53
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
amen!

God is indeed merciful and His mercies are new every morning as we read in Lamentations

THAT, is the MAJOR difference between God our Father, and the dictatorial make believe god of Calvin

God is not willing that ANY perish but that ALL may come to eternal life BECAUSE that offer is open to THE WORLD

and let no one now claim that I am suggesting universal salvation because I am claiming the same salvation offered by our God and Father!
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
forestgreencook believes that he was saved as follows:

When saved: When Christ died on the cross

see, the Bible actually states we have to make a CONFESSION of faith..for example the act of baptism being public...and we are not automatically saved

I peeked at his profile page on a whim

not surprised....:cautious:
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,427
846
113
forestgreencook believes that he was saved as follows:

When saved: When Christ died on the cross

see, the Bible actually states we have to make a CONFESSION of faith..for example the act of baptism being public...and we are not automatically saved

I peeked at his profile page on a whim

not surprised....:cautious:
And your profile page is blocked. Wonder why, got something to hid? Wouldn't be surprised.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,864
1,418
113
I would think some of Calvin's murderous desires stemmed from his 'total depravity' renderings and gave him freedom to do the horrendous things he did
what makes total depravity so ridicilous to me is that its God's fault everyone doesnt turn to Him and repent..... He was the one who put that curse on everyone after adam fell, so not our fault if we dont obey and do right. we have no capability to do so unless God grants us grace repentance faith etc.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
35,603
13,030
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If unconditional election were true, then there is no need for missions. The eternal destiny of all has already been decided. We are not God - we cannot help him in His work - the work is done! Just go home, and eat, drink, and by merry! God has already decided your eternal destiny!
Romans 10:13-14 (NIV)
13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in?
And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard?
And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
And your profile page is blocked. Wonder why, got something to hid? Wouldn't be surprised.

haha

here are my specs:

saved at 5 when presented with the gospel in Sunday School

5' 7"

blond and green eyes

married

work out

love animals

very creative and talented

have no tolerance for lying liars

praying the dems will collaspe in on themselves

prob more info than you can handle

a good number of folks here know me and I didn't always have my profile blocked but I do now in order to block unwanted and unsolicted pms from people whose theology is nonsense
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
That is a nasty and so unnecessary comment toward that poster. Shame on you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

we do agree with regards to Calvinism and thanks for your chivalrous response to mr cook ;)
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,553
2,221
113
www.christiancourier.com
haha

here are my specs:

saved at 5 when presented with the gospel in Sunday School

5' 7"

blond and green eyes

married

work out

love animals

very creative and talented

have no tolerance for lying liars

praying the dems will collaspe in on themselves

prob more info than you can handle

a good number of folks here know me and I didn't always have my profile blocked but I do now in order to block unwanted and unsolicted pms from people whose theology is nonsense
Male or female? You left that out. :giggle:
Go ahead, answer, "Both!" :p I would. :ROFL:
 

kohelet

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2012
339
219
43
amen!

God is indeed merciful and His mercies are new every morning as we read in Lamentations

THAT, is the MAJOR difference between God our Father, and the dictatorial make believe god of Calvin

God is not willing that ANY perish but that ALL may come to eternal life BECAUSE that offer is open to THE WORLD

and let no one now claim that I am suggesting universal salvation because I am claiming the same salvation offered by our God and Father!
Tell us how you really feel, 7seas.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,213
2,374
113
Yes, I have been a member sense age 62 of the Primitive baptist and a deacon sense age 65. I am now 85. Do you believe that there are people, still today that have never heard the gospel? Do you believe that hearing the gospel is required in order to be saved eternally?
The Bible is clear you MUST hear the gospel to be saved!

"So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." Romans 10:17 NASB

In fact, if you look at the context of vs 17, it says much more about this!

"How are they to call on one they have not believed in? And how are they to believe in one they have not heard of? And how are they to hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How timely is the arrival of those who proclaim the good news.” 16 But not all have obeyed the good news, for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 Consequently faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the preached word of Christ." Romans 19:14-17 NET

You are dead wrong in this issue. People must hear the gospel before God saves them. Then, they confess Jesus as Lord and repent of their sins!
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
9,326
5,697
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True.
Just the import of "Total Depravity" in the TULIP formula is enough to know Calvin was one odd duck. To imagine that is what people were created first to be by God.
Total Depravity = All men have inherited the sin of Adam through their parents and are morally unable to choose to follow God and be saved because of their own depraved, sinful nature which extends to every part of their personality.

Wouldn't you agree that people who you've met that are kind hearted, generous, compassionate, loving, are examples that definition of people is greatly flawed?
What the devout to Calvin's idea of God don't appear to get, because there are still Calvinists in the world hoping to lead people to believe John's ideas, is that the TULIP that coincides with Calvinism describes the qualities of a Devil. Not a benevolent Father.
Wait a second here. Forget about Calvin and TULIP (which apparently HE wasn't the one that created that acronym). Calvin, like Luther, had MAJOR flaws. Both were rabid anti semites just to name one. Luther a little more so.

BUT, how you have defined total depravity is completely Biblical, and I would argue to preach against would be heresy.


The idea of the inherited sin nature is all over Scripture. It is succinctly outlined in Romans. ALL HAVE SINNED...
Remember that?
If we COULD follow God without being born again, we wouldn't need Jesus to begin with! YOU, cannot do ANYTHING, UNTIL you are born. Think about that a sec.

And Jesus Himself said NO ONE IS GOOD, except God. So your idea of "good, kind hearted,, generous, compassionate, loving, people" that aren't born again, is from a purely human perspective of what "good" is. God calls that type of human goodness FILTHY RAGS.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
11,979
2,267
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Wait a second here. Forget about Calvin and TULIP (which apparently HE wasn't the one that created that acronym). Calvin, like Luther, had MAJOR flaws. Both were rabid anti semites just to name one. Luther a little more so.
Calvin also stated that the fall of Adam and Eve, in all of it’s consequences, was the admirable council of God. In other words, God is the author of sin.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
3,726
1,064
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Pure unconditional Calvinistic predestination says that God ordained before the world who would be lost and saved and nothing can change that. The elect will persevere to the end.

If that is true (as stated above) then the pure logic and wording of the statement means that nothing can or will change that fact. Hence missions will not have any affect on the elect. Conclusion: Missions is not necessary.

But then we are told that missions and our actions are also part of God's predestination. OK, God, do with me what you planned since the beginning of the world! I am yours!!!!!! (Meanwhile I will sit here eating potato chips and watching the World Series!)

Now, God does have complete foreknowledge and sovereignty - Yes, and amen to that! He does know who will be saved and who will not be saved. And nothing can change that - yes and amen! The problem with Calvinistic predestination is that it makes a finite doctrine of an infinite God and reduces God's sovereignty to a formula supposedly understood by man! And when you start with a finite man-made statement of an infinite God and hang all of your doctrine and practice on it you will get man's own ideas and living!
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
9,326
5,697
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Calvin also stated that the fall of Adam and Eve, in all of it’s consequences, was the admirable council of God. In other words, God is the author of sin.
I believe a lot of the concepts of calvinism are completely Biblical, but I don't think anyone should follow ANYBODY but Jesus Christ and the teachings of Scripture.

You won't see me touting the person, John Calvin. And I have come across extreme calvinist guys that actually only seek out those they THINK are the elect, instead of preaching the Gospel to all.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
11,979
2,267
113
I believe a lot of the concepts of calvinism are completely Biblical, but I don't think anyone should follow ANYBODY but Jesus Christ and the teachings of Scripture.

You won't see me touting the person, John Calvin. And I have come across extreme calvinist guys that actually only seek out those they THINK are the elect, instead of preaching the Gospel to all.
Do you believe a person is saved before they hear the gospel and believe as the op states?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
9,326
5,697
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Do you believe a person is saved before they hear the gospel and believe as the op states?
I believe ALL of these paradoxes are solved if we stay in our lane, and let God be Sovereign.


From OUR perspective we must hear and obey the Gospel unto Salvation. And this Gospel must preached, and is available to ALL men.

From God's perspective His Children's names have been written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world. HE, is the author and finisher of our faith. HE has chosen us BEFORE the foundation. We can't just ignore that truth. We can acknowledge it, and move on to what we are called to do. Those works he prepared for us to do in advance.

We MUST stop looking at this from God's perspective and try and fit our human reasoning, understanding, and intellect, into His Sovereignty.

So to answer your question, from our perspective I do not believe we are saved, until we hear, believe, and receive.
EVEN THOUGH GOD, OUTSIDE THE DIMENSION OF TIME, KNOWS WHO HIS ELECT ARE.

There is a fascinating book that I think might be a movie, that I haven't read, but heard what it is about. It is called "Flatland".

It is about a world that only has 2 dimensions, and how it is virtually impossible for the people in Flatland to comprehend a third dimension or even 4th dimension. If a 3 dimensional being stuck his fingers into Flatland, the only thing they would see is 2 circles. They would be unable to see or perceive or understand that there is more there than just 2 circles.

We are trying with our 3 lb brain to comprehend the things of an all powerful, all knowing God. We think things like "well if I were God...." fill in the blank. We are WAAAY better off just doing what we are told to do. Which is Love the Lord with all your mind, heart, body and Soul, love people, and spread the Gospel.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,427
846
113
That is a nasty and so unnecessary comment toward that poster. Shame on you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Yes, I admit that I am wrong. Just because he talks trash to me is no reason that I should do the same. It is unbecoming of anyone to act in that manner.