Is unconditional election biblical?

[calibob]

As far as evangelists, missionaries and outreach workers go. I would gravitate to saying that many are preselected. We can't stop there however. Since our commission is to spread the word, we can trust that the Lord uses who he choses. The rest must be given the choice to choose him. We were chosen to spread the word indiscriminately to others. The Lord has the ability to change hearts and minds. It's the parable about the lamp and the basket. We must let our light shine.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

True honest question here....

What exactly do you mean by unconditional election? What I mean is are you saying that our destiny is determined by God from the beginning and it doesn't matter what we do we are either saved or lost because it was predetermined?

Specifically, "unconditional election" is answering whether a person is elected by God or, in essence, by himself.

The Five Points were meant to address claims of Arminians.

Arminians claim that, yes, God elects, but he elects based on foreknowledge of whether the person will choose to place their faith in Jesus Christ. That would be the "condition". So, in essence, the person elects himself.

Reformed theology teaches that God elects, but it is based on his sovereign grace, and not on foreseen faith. "Foreknowledge" is viewed, in Reformed theology, as "fore-loving". The word "know" in Scripture is used to describe an intimate, loving relationship with a person. Therefore, God has this type of intimate, loving relationship with the individual person since the foundation of the world.

Jeremiah 1:5 would be an example of foreknowing an individual. But it is only one of many, and as I continue to read the Bible, I see all kinds of references in this regard. For instance, in Romans 11, when it says, Jacob I have loved and Esau I have hated, it is talking about this sort of love...redemptive love.

I will give Arminians credit in that they realize that God foreknows and predestines individuals to salvation, but in essence, they are still claiming they choose themselves.

And, yes, I don't think the reprobate (the non-elect) will ever desire salvation so their eternal damnation is inevitable. However, it isn't caused by God in the sense of making it happen. He simply doesn't do anything to stop their destructive lifestyle. He must directly intervene and regenerate the person, giving them a heart of flesh that will respond to him. This heart is what causes faith and repentance.

In free-willer theology, they believe you need to take your heart of flesh, and somehow squeeze faith and repentance out of this stony heart. THEN, God gives you a heart of flesh. That is how they keep man in the driver's seat.

In Reformed theology, we believe that God gives you a heart of flesh, and this causes you to exercise faith and repentance. You could not do it with your stony heart. This places God firmly in the driver's seat.

To answer your question though, I don't think that the non-elect will ever display faith and repentance, nor will they even desire a relationship with God. So, I don't believe there is anyone out there who wants to be saved who cannot be saved. There are lots of selfish people who want a personal genie to manipulate into giving them material things, like the shallow "disciples" of John 6, but I don't count them.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Because simply reading and studying the scriptures, one would never come up with this theology.

The book refers copiously to Scriptural references. I don't have time to address all the false claims being produced here, so I suggest if they want an accurate account, read the book.

By the way, open-theist theology is one that would never be represented in Scripture. Open theists are some of the worst heretics amongst free-willers. Dragging God down to the level of a man and turning him into an Alzheimer-god who forgets what he knows is sickening. Somehow they don't understand that "remember" and "forget" are covenant-terms..in other words, God didn't really forget Noah was in the Ark. Yet, that's how they try to read Scripture. I don't believe in their Alzheimer-god (no disrespect if anyone has family members suffering from Alzheimers).

I strongly recommend that folks avoid writings of open-theist heretics like Clark Pinnock or the many videos of Jesse Morrell's teachings on Youtube.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

You are the one who should be listening to yourself. God never works outside of his holy nature, therefore He only does according to who He is and what He has revealed to be.


Provide chapter and verse where the cross of Jesus Christ is limited only to those whom God has chosen to save, while the rest of His creation He discards as trash.

Are you asking me to provide Scriptures that prove limited atonement?

I already did, in the thread concerning limited atonement.

They are listed at the top of the thread. I listed them this way so they would not get buried in the thread itself.'

I would not use the word "trash" but if you want to use that to refer to the non-elect, go ahead. The Bible calls them chaff, as opposed to wheat, and they are thrown in the fire.

You can read Romans 9 to see that there are vessels that are created for honor, and vessels that are created for dishonor. They are both created out of the same "lump".

By the way, did you know corporate election for salvation was the brainchild of Karl Barth? Barth has some very questionable theology, although it is hard to get a handle on him because he mused more than he taught. He had some wonky views on the inspiration of Scripture and indicates that he thought the Bible had errors.

However, it is accurate to say that Jesus was the elect one in regards to mission but NOT in terms of salvation. Jesus was not elected to salvation. Claiming this would be the same as claiming Jesus had sin and needed to be saved from it.

Jesus was elect in terms of mission and being a reflection of God's holiness, as are believers joined to him, but he was not elect in terms of salvation. Believers are chosen for salvation, though, according to Scripture. God has a particular people, elect or chosen from the foundation of the world, whose sins the Son has atoned for, and the Holy Spirit applies this salvation to them in time. These individuals are chosen to reflect God's glory, and because of this, many of them are considered weak and worthless in man's false worldview. See 1 Cor 1:26ff.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

You missed my point completely. If God chooses to save people because He does what He wants, then the cross is the biggest failure in the history of the world. Calvinism is so wrong.

Read Romans 9, especially v. 19.

Man has nothing to say about how God deals with his creation.

He doesn't have to meet your expectations.

If you think God always does things the way that we think is right, then that would be a good sign that you have an idol and do not worship God. God is a controversial being. He drown all but eight persons in the Flood.

And, the number "8" was not incidental. Eight is the number of new beginnings. For instance, the Hebrew child was circumcised on the eighth day. Circumcision meant that a new member entered the covenant community. He was recognized as a new creation at the point of his circumcision.

Jesus was resurrected on the eighth day. His resurrection body is the beginning of a new creation.

Why am I bringing this up? It was not accidental that God only saved eight people, and that he began his "new creation" under Noah with only eight people. This means he was selective. So, election is within his modus operandi.

He will also populate his new creation (the New Heavens and the New Earth) with an innumerable multitude that he has elected out of every tribe, tongue and nation. See Revelation 5, 21, 22.

 

[Whispered]

Read the responses in purple.

By the way, I will note that a large part of this persons' post is based on false assumptions regarding Reformed theology. Also, I can't take the time to address every single claim in regards to this topic.

I suggest that you get a good book on Reformed theology if you really want an accurate portrayal of it, and the one I recommend is Five Points of Calvinism by David Steele. The individuals on this site are not accurately portraying it, although I don't doubt the intentions of some of them. Others are simply misinformed and repeating propaganda.

I also recommend audios by Brian Borgman on this issue. They are on SermonAudio. I can provide links if anyone is interested. My email address is in the signature.

I would suggest you read my posts more carefully before thinking to critique me for what was clearly noted as excerpted truth concerning Unconditional Election as pertains to Calvinism. https://apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?article=5387
That link was provided in my post. Which you would have known if you had thought to click the link before thinking to chastise me with your false accusations.

If the TULIP formula of Calvinism is new to you perhaps you should reconsider speaking to anything related to Calvinism.

 

[Whispered]

See responses above in dark purple.

Please refer to reply #346 for all your posts that cite your remarks in dark purple.

 

[Whispered]

See responses above in dark purple.

See reply

those are not nasty comments at when matched with your rhetoric

when are you going to answer everyone who is asking if you think you were saved before you heard the gospel?

and you should get out of the basement for a little fresh air

as it is, everyone, including the op whom I disagree with regarding Calvinism, has disagreed with you and told you that you do not have proper knowledge of scripture

why do you pick on me? LOL!

Quite sincerely, at this point I think FGC is so confused as to the positions they've taken in this and the 3 Tactics Calvinists thread that they are now resorting to personal attacks so as to obscure that fact.
They've argued for the Calvinist formula of TULIP , especially the Elect status afforded due to Unconditional Election, and now they have said they were saved prior to hearing the Gospel due to Christ's "Imputed Righteousness", which is not part of the TULIP formula.

Perhaps we should pray for them rather than laugh at their clear confusion. If they are in their 80's as they claimed in a reply to one of these threads, perhaps it is a matter of age and stress.
If they actually are not that age, perhaps it is a matter of pretending and now they've lost track of what role they were playing given the many threads the OP has devoted to RT.

Just my thoughts. FGC is all over the place. It's sad.

 

[Whispered]

...
I suggest that you get a good book on Reformed theology if you really want an accurate portrayal of it, and the one I recommend is Five Points of Calvinism by David Steele. The individuals on this site are not accurately portraying it, although I don't doubt the intentions of some of them. Others are simply misinformed and repeating propaganda.

I also recommend audios by Brian Borgman on this issue. They are on SermonAudio. I can provide links if anyone is interested. My email address is in the signature.

I assure you the credentials of the source I shared to inform readers of the failures of Calvinism have more knowledge on the subject than either of us. And anyone who wishes to know the truth about John Calvin's invention should stay well away from the bias of a minister of Calvinism. Be they resourced from SermonAudio or anywhere else.

Calvinism is not scripture. Calvinism is an abridgement , an interpolation, of scripture.

The god John spoke of and for is the adversary of the actual Gospel. Not the Father of the actual Gospel.
John Calvin, when he speaks of Unconditional Election and Limited Atonement, the "U" and "L" , in the TULIP formula in Calvinism, demonstrated as a representative of his Doctrine that which he defended as the "T", Total Depravity, in his vengeful murderous zeal to forever silence critics and those committed to the actual Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Demons will not lead one seeking Christ to Christ. Avoid John Calvin if you seek Christ.

Dr. Dave Miller

Dr. Miller is a graduate of Lubbock Christian University, where he earned a B.A. degree in speech and Bible. He earned his M.A. degree in speech communication from Texas Tech University, and his M.Div. and M.A.R. from the Harding School of Theology. He also is a graduate of Southern Illinois University, where he earned his Ph.D. in Rhetoric and Public Address. For over 40 years, he has served in various capacities for churches of Christ, including pulpit preacher, director of a school of preaching, and host of a nationally televised program which airs on GBN (gbntv.org). Presently serving as the Executive Director of Apologetics Press, Dr. Miller has authored numerous articles and books, including The Quran Unveiled, Sexual Anarchy, Piloting the Strait, The Silencing of God, Christ and the Continental Congress, Why People Suffer, and a series of books that teach children how to read. He conducts 40+ speaking engagements a year, including weekend seminars, lectureships, and Gospel meetings. In addition to speaking on a wide range of biblical subjects, Dr. Miller specializes in presenting seminars on the following themes:

 

[Whispered]

Wait a second here. Forget about Calvin and TULIP (which apparently HE wasn't the one that created that acronym). Calvin, like Luther, had MAJOR flaws. Both were rabid anti semites just to name one. Luther a little more so.

BUT, how you have defined total depravity is completely Biblical, and I would argue to preach against would be heresy.

No, I would wholly disagree that RT, Calvin's Total Depravity , is far from Biblical. Because for it to be Biblical, the rest of the TULIP formula would have to be true and attributable to God. Which it is not.

Total Depravity = All men have inherited the sin of Adam through their parents and are morally unable to choose to follow God and be saved because of their own depraved, sinful nature which extends to every part of their personality.​

Bible Responses

Ezekiel 18:19-23—“Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?’ Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live. The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself…. ‘Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?’ says the Lord GOD, ‘and not that he should turn from his ways and live?’”

Ezekiel 28:15—“You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you.”

Psalm 106:37-38—“They even sacrificed their sons and their daughters to demons, and shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters.”

Zechariah 12:1—“Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him.”

Matthew 18:2-3—“Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.’”

Matthew 19:14—“But Jesus said, ‘Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.’”

Romans 7:9—“I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died.”

The idea of the inherited sin nature is all over Scripture. It is succinctly outlined in Romans. ALL HAVE SINNED...
Remember that?

Yes, all have sinned. Unless or until they repent of their sins and have those put under the blood of Jesus.

If we COULD follow God without being born again, we wouldn't need Jesus to begin with! YOU, cannot do ANYTHING, UNTIL you are born. Think about that a sec.

No need to think about that. I believe you are confused as to whom you really mean to address your remarks to. I have never once said we could follow God without being born again.
As the rest of your post is errant when addressed to me as well I have edited to omit that for brevity.

 

[Whispered]

There is a reason to preach the gospel. The inspired words of God were not written to to the eternally unsaved because they cannot discern the things of the Spirit, but they were written to the elect to inform them how God wants them to live their lives as they sojourn here in this world, and also, to inform them that Jesus has died on the cross to pay for their sins and imputed his righteousness unto them, telling them that they do not have to go about trying to establish their own righteousness, by their good works. Jesus instructed his Apostles to go and preach to the lost sheep (God's elect) of the house of Israel.

That is not just heresy but blasphemy and false from start to finish.

This is becoming more concerning rather than a simple matter as before of empathy for one who appears to be emotionally, or perhaps mentally, infirm, as FGC has previously claimed to be of a very senior age.

Is there a rule against falsifying the Gospel, or making blasphemous, heretical, charges against the Gospel? As posted and quoted above?

There are those who we may presume enter here seeking Christ. The scripture above in total informs them not even the Bible will assist that.

 

[PennEd]

No, I would wholly disagree that RT, Calvin's Total Depravity , is far from Biblical. Because for it to be Biblical, the rest of the TULIP formula would have to be true and attributable to God. Which it is not.

​

Total Depravity = All men have inherited the sin of Adam through their parents and are morally unable to choose to follow God and be saved because of their own depraved, sinful nature which extends to every part of their personality.​

Bible Responses

Ezekiel 18:19-23—“Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?’ Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live. The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself…. ‘Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?’ says the Lord GOD, ‘and not that he should turn from his ways and live?’”

Ezekiel 28:15—“You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you.”

Psalm 106:37-38—“They even sacrificed their sons and their daughters to demons, and shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters.”

Zechariah 12:1—“Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him.”

Matthew 18:2-3—“Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.’”

Matthew 19:14—“But Jesus said, ‘Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.’”

Romans 7:9—“I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died.”





Yes, all have sinned. Unless or until they repent of their sins and have those put under the blood of Jesus.

No need to think about that. I believe you are confused as to whom you really mean to address your remarks to. I have never once said we could follow God without being born again.
As the rest of your post is errant when addressed to me as well I have edited to omit that for brevity.

You have completely misunderstood the verses you posted. And consequently why Jesus had to come.

Your arguments mirror those of the Pharisees that thought they were saved by:
A. Being a blood descendant of Abraham.
B. Their adherence to the Law.

Very easy to refute.


Name just ONE soul, IN ALL OF HISTORY, save Jesus, that has NOT sinned, and deserved eternal death.

 

[Hevosmies]

Can someone choose to be born?

 

[Hevosmies]

Name just ONE soul, IN ALL OF HISTORY, save Jesus, that has NOT sinned, and deserved eternal death.

I had a good run for a while! Then this one lady came along. ALL HER FAULT really.

 

[PennEd]

Deuteronomy 5:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 you shall not bow[a] down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, [b]visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Numbers 14:18 New King James Version (NKJV)
18 ‘The Lord is longsuffering and abundant in mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He by no means clears the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation.’
Exodus 34:7 New King James Version (NKJV)
7 keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children’s children to the third and the fourth generation.”
Deuteronomy 23:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord.



Thank the Lord we have Jesus!

 

[PennEd]

No, I would wholly disagree that RT, Calvin's Total Depravity , is far from Biblical. Because for it to be Biblical, the rest of the TULIP formula would have to be true and attributable to God. Which it is not.

​

Total Depravity = All men have inherited the sin of Adam through their parents and are morally unable to choose to follow God and be saved because of their own depraved, sinful nature which extends to every part of their personality.​

Bible Responses

Ezekiel 18:19-23—“Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?’ Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live. The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself…. ‘Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?’ says the Lord GOD, ‘and not that he should turn from his ways and live?’”

Ezekiel 28:15—“You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you.”

Psalm 106:37-38—“They even sacrificed their sons and their daughters to demons, and shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters.”

Zechariah 12:1—“Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him.”

Matthew 18:2-3—“Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.’”

Matthew 19:14—“But Jesus said, ‘Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.’”

Romans 7:9—“I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died.”





Yes, all have sinned. Unless or until they repent of their sins and have those put under the blood of Jesus.

No need to think about that. I believe you are confused as to whom you really mean to address your remarks to. I have never once said we could follow God without being born again.
As the rest of your post is errant when addressed to me as well I have edited to omit that for brevity.

I mean, ya might need to read this whole chapter if you don't think we were born with Adam's sin nature. Pay special attention to ALL HAVE SINNED.

Romans 5 New King James Version (NKJV)
Faith Triumphs in Trouble
5 Therefore, having been justified by faith, [a]we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces [b]perseverance; 4 and perseverance, [c]character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Christ in Our Place
6 For when we were still without strength, [d]in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the [e]offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many [f]offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s [g]offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore, as through [h]one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one[i] Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

When all else fails, greekify...

Confusion comes from not rightly dividing the word of truth.

In your system, one could never know if they are eternally saved since, in order to prove this, one must follow the commandments and do good works throughout one’s life.

No person, even though they are delivered eternally, is able to continually follow the commandments and do good works except Christ. Heb 12:6, For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If we have scripture telling us that God does not punish some person, then we can conclude that the person is not loved by him. Psalms 73:5, They are not PLAGUED, and, yes, I am going to, as you call it, greekify it. The scriptures will not harmonize unless you "greekify" them. Plagued according to Strong's means "divinely punished" as reference, "the plagues of Egypt". I am sure that everyone that has been eternally delivered has tasted the chastening rod of God, which would indicate that you are eternally saved.

 

[Gentle-Warrior]

Read Romans 9, especially v. 19.

Man has nothing to say about how God deals with his creation.

He doesn't have to meet your expectations.

If you think God always does things the way that we think is right, then that would be a good sign that you have an idol and do not worship God. God is a controversial being. He drown all but eight persons in the Flood.

And, the number "8" was not incidental. Eight is the number of new beginnings. For instance, the Hebrew child was circumcised on the eighth day. Circumcision meant that a new member entered the covenant community. He was recognized as a new creation at the point of his circumcision.

Jesus was resurrected on the eighth day. His resurrection body is the beginning of a new creation.

Why am I bringing this up? It was not accidental that God only saved eight people, and that he began his "new creation" under Noah with only eight people. This means he was selective. So, election is within his modus operandi.

He will also populate his new creation (the New Heavens and the New Earth) with an innumerable multitude that he has elected out of every tribe, tongue and nation. See Revelation 5, 21, 22.

Your expectation of God is extremely limited. God is love (1Jn 4:16) which means He has given Himself to His creation via blood covenant. God was in Christ reconciling th wold back to Himself (2Cor. 5:19). Your assessment of the holy character of God lacks

 

[Whispered]

I mean, ya might need to read this whole chapter if you don't think we were born with Adam's sin nature. Pay special attention to ALL HAVE SINNED.

Romans 5 New King James Version (NKJV)
Faith Triumphs in Trouble
5 Therefore, having been justified by faith, [a]we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces [b]perseverance; 4 and perseverance, [c]character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Christ in Our Place
6 For when we were still without strength, [d]in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the [e]offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many [f]offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s [g]offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore, as through [h]one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one[i] Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

John Calvin said, "Again, I ask: whence does it happen that Adam's fall irremediably involved so many peoples, together with their infant offspring, in eternal death unless because it so pleased God?" He concluded by saying, "The decree is dreadful, I confess." (Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, Vol. 2, page 955).​

One human written religious creed, the Philadelphia Confession of Faith, says, "They (Adam and Eve - J.Q.) being the root, and, by God's appointment... the guilt of sin was imputed, and corrupted nature conveyed to all their posterity, descending from them by ordinary generation, being now conceived in sin..."

The Consequences of the Fall
"Then to Adam He said, 'Because you ... have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, "You shall not eat from it..."'" (Genesis 3:17; see context: vss. 14-24). One reads in vain for the idea of original sin in the account of man's fall as related in the Bible. Genesis records many consequences resulting from the first transgression. There is pain in childbirth, the ground is cursed, and physical death (the body returning to dust) is decreed. But nothing at all about children inheriting the guilt of Adam's sin.
"The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment of the father's iniquity; nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be on himself." (Ezekiel 18:20; cf. vss. 19-32)

"Therefore, I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct," (Ezekiel 18:30)


"Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness. Sin is lawlessness." The Book of 1st John chapter 3 verse 4

The Book of Jeremiah 31
27 Behold, the days come, saith Jehovah, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast. 28 And it shall come to pass that, like as I have watched over them to pluck up and to break down and to overthrow and to destroy and to afflict, so will I watch over them to build and to plant, saith Jehovah. 29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge. 30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.

Miscellaneous Laws
Deuteronomy 24:16 “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

The Consequences of the Fall
"Then to Adam He said, 'Because you ... have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, "You shall not eat from it..."'" (Genesis 3:17; see context: vss. 14-24). One reads in vain for the idea of original sin in the account of man's fall as related in the Bible. Genesis records many consequences resulting from the first transgression. There is pain in childbirth, the ground is cursed, and physical death (the body returning to dust) is decreed. But nothing at all about children inheriting the guilt of Adam's sin.

 

[Whispered]

You have completely misunderstood the verses you posted. And consequently why Jesus had to come.

Again you failed to read my post. Though if you are Calvinist it is understandable that you would take issues with the posted scriptures that refute TULIP.

Your arguments mirror those of the Pharisees that thought they were saved by:
A. Being a blood descendant of Abraham.
B. Their adherence to the Law.

Very easy to refute.

Yet you failed to. But you do resort to calling me a name, like others here do when unable to comport themselves well when they disagree with someone. There are scriptures that condemn that behavior. I wonder if you and your fellows are aware.

Name just ONE soul, IN ALL OF HISTORY, save Jesus, that has NOT sinned, and deserved eternal death.

Jesus' mom.