Is unconditional election biblical?
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Male or female? You left that out. 
Go ahead, answer, "Both!" I would.
Go ahead, answer, "Both!"
I would.
yeah I did leave that out...
well, that question came up awhile back and that is why I have that little blurb in pink below
Pink but more bitey then snippy
bit of a story behind that too...we used to have female names in pink and male in blue before the format changed
There is a reason to preach the gospel. The inspired words of God were not written to to the eternally unsaved because they cannot discern the things of the Spirit, but they were written to the elect to inform them how God wants them to live their lives as they sojourn here in this world, and also, to inform them that Jesus has died on the cross to pay for their sins and imputed his righteousness unto them, telling them that they do not have to go about trying to establish their own righteousness, by their good works. Jesus instructed his Apostles to go and preach to the lost sheep (God's elect) of the house of Israel.
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Amen! Lets humble ourself! God got this!
I have always said: If you believe in absolute foreknowledge, that God knows the future, you ALREADY BELIEVE in predestination and that everything goes as it does! Because if God knows it, it CANNOT GO any other way. Which is why we have people written in the book of life from the foundation of the world!
That does NOT mean preaching the Gospel is "useless" or just a mindless exercise, these are all REAL events with REAL people and its a REAL relationship with God, true fellowship.
I have always said: If you believe in absolute foreknowledge, that God knows the future, you ALREADY BELIEVE in predestination and that everything goes as it does! Because if God knows it, it CANNOT GO any other way. Which is why we have people written in the book of life from the foundation of the world!
That does NOT mean preaching the Gospel is "useless" or just a mindless exercise, these are all REAL events with REAL people and its a REAL relationship with God, true fellowship.
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Yes, I would not have been able to discern what the gospel was talking about (1 Cor 2:14). There are eternally saved people who are still babes in Christ who do not understand the full meaning of the gospel and are going about trying to establish their own righteousness by their good works, not understanding that they have the imputed righteousness of Christ and that is who Jesus instructed his Apostles to go and preach the gospel to.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Over and over Scripture says believe and thou shalt be saved, not and you’ll realize you were already saved.
Believing the gospel comes before salvation. You should “harmonize” 1 Cor. 2:14 with these verses instead of your private interpretation.
Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Over and over Scripture says believe and thou shalt be saved, not and you’ll realize you were already saved.
Believing the gospel comes before salvation. You should “harmonize” 1 Cor. 2:14 with these verses instead of your private interpretation.
Salvation, according to Strong's Greek interpretation means "a deliverance". We are delivered eternally by God's grace, without the works of man. The eternally saved are delivered as we sojourn here in this world by following God's commandments (by our good works) and repenting when we commit sins. This is why so many of the eternally saved people are confused by the scriptures that are telling them to do good works in order to be saved, not understanding that it is not talking about eternal deliverance. There will always be the arguments between works and grace until the salvation scriptures are rightly divides.
d. All those verses that say He predetermined whom would come to Salvation aren't saying He played a celestial game like unto Duck-Duck-Go. You go to Heaven, nope you go into damnation, you go to Heaven, and so forth.
Scripture clearly teaches that the Father gave the elect to his Son, who then atoned for their sins on the Cross. The Holy Spirit applies this salvation to the elect.
He didn't need to actively damn the reprobate because they are already damned. He wasn't obligated to regenerate them and apply the benefits of salvation to them.
It means God's Omniscience and Omnipotence are part of His Saving Grace that He delivered to the world. And all that pertains to Salvation is part of His plan to save the worlds people from their sins. He planned that. That whosoever believeth in that, in Jesus, the Savior, the Message of that plan, shall not perish! But shall have immortal life.
The issue is what causes faith. Ephesians 2:1-10 is pretty clear and provides this information.
It wasn't to say God predetermined whom He would save and whom He would damn and in the end we'll all find out which one we are. Even if we only now think we have faith ourselves, it doesn't matter until we learn what God pre-determined and for whom, by name.
Reformed theology doesn't teach that "in the end we will find out who we are". There are two witnesses to the believer; the word of God and the Holy Spirit. Both provide assurance to the believer.
That's a really long response, rebuttal, however, I am weary of that argument that makes out that a doctrine such as was invented by Calvin interpolating scriptures to fit his ideal deity is sacrosanct. I realize the devout will not be moved to change. Perhaps it is a a feeling of assurance that they are what John imagined to define as his version of Elect. Perhaps it is fear of Hell should one deviate from what they've been taught or held as true for so long.
However, God gave us intellect that we may be thoughtful and discretionary and conscious as His creation. And I will not accept a fabricated deity such as that which John imagined to exist and call sacred, when what John describes as that which he believed did exist is that which one would pray salvation from!
John Calvin didn't "invent" Reformed theology. He was a theologian who had a gift of systematization. In other words, he took the teachings of the apostle Paul, as well as the understanding of his contemporaries and Augustine, and systematized them. Reformed theologians provide copious Scriptural references to support their position, so they didn't just pull them out of the air.
By the way, free-willers like Leighton Flowers today admit that they are all over the board, and don't have any organized theology. Leighton Flowers has been trying to get free-willers to unite on doctrine, so they can present an organized opposition to Reformed theology, but it's like herding a bunch of cats Having been fellowshipping with free-willers for decades until the last five years, I think they are clueless and simply trying to explain around teachings in the Bible they don't like. And, I totally admit that the Bible's teachings are offensive to the human mind who wants to exalt humans over God.
A god that creates a race, the human race, in his image and likeness after he predetermines their fall from his grace so as to premeditate those he alone would save by his works, not their conscious awakening to His Spirit, so as to bring some home to him and send those others straight to the Hell he created to receive for his adversary and his angels and then opened to receive his chosen men and women as well. THINK! And you won't let yourself be led to be a Calvinist!
Yes, that's a bit of passion there. But you know what? So to was Jesus' death on the cross. Hallelujah! Thank you Father! Thank you for thinking us worthy. Amen.
Yes, continue to hide your head in the sand and ignore the Scriptures which are clearly teaching contrary to free-willer theology, including John 6, 10, Ephesians 1, 2, Romans 8, 9 and lots of other verses that I have largely listed on the threads I've created.
By the way, your claim that you are worthy makes me sick, if you are talking about worthy of salvation. Jesus is the worthy one, not us. Worthiness is why we worship God, not something to glory in.
Scripture clearly teaches that the Father gave the elect to his Son, who then atoned for their sins on the Cross. The Holy Spirit applies this salvation to the elect.
He didn't need to actively damn the reprobate because they are already damned. He wasn't obligated to regenerate them and apply the benefits of salvation to them.
It means God's Omniscience and Omnipotence are part of His Saving Grace that He delivered to the world. And all that pertains to Salvation is part of His plan to save the worlds people from their sins. He planned that. That whosoever believeth in that, in Jesus, the Savior, the Message of that plan, shall not perish! But shall have immortal life.
The issue is what causes faith. Ephesians 2:1-10 is pretty clear and provides this information.
It wasn't to say God predetermined whom He would save and whom He would damn and in the end we'll all find out which one we are. Even if we only now think we have faith ourselves, it doesn't matter until we learn what God pre-determined and for whom, by name.
Reformed theology doesn't teach that "in the end we will find out who we are". There are two witnesses to the believer; the word of God and the Holy Spirit. Both provide assurance to the believer.
That's a really long response, rebuttal, however, I am weary of that argument that makes out that a doctrine such as was invented by Calvin interpolating scriptures to fit his ideal deity is sacrosanct. I realize the devout will not be moved to change. Perhaps it is a a feeling of assurance that they are what John imagined to define as his version of Elect. Perhaps it is fear of Hell should one deviate from what they've been taught or held as true for so long.
However, God gave us intellect that we may be thoughtful and discretionary and conscious as His creation. And I will not accept a fabricated deity such as that which John imagined to exist and call sacred, when what John describes as that which he believed did exist is that which one would pray salvation from!
John Calvin didn't "invent" Reformed theology. He was a theologian who had a gift of systematization. In other words, he took the teachings of the apostle Paul, as well as the understanding of his contemporaries and Augustine, and systematized them. Reformed theologians provide copious Scriptural references to support their position, so they didn't just pull them out of the air.
By the way, free-willers like Leighton Flowers today admit that they are all over the board, and don't have any organized theology. Leighton Flowers has been trying to get free-willers to unite on doctrine, so they can present an organized opposition to Reformed theology, but it's like herding a bunch of cats
Having been fellowshipping with free-willers for decades until the last five years, I think they are clueless and simply trying to explain around teachings in the Bible they don't like. And, I totally admit that the Bible's teachings are offensive to the human mind who wants to exalt humans over God.A god that creates a race, the human race, in his image and likeness after he predetermines their fall from his grace so as to premeditate those he alone would save by his works, not their conscious awakening to His Spirit, so as to bring some home to him and send those others straight to the Hell he created to receive for his adversary and his angels and then opened to receive his chosen men and women as well. THINK! And you won't let yourself be led to be a Calvinist!
Yes, that's a bit of passion there. But you know what? So to was Jesus' death on the cross. Hallelujah! Thank you Father! Thank you for thinking us worthy. Amen.
Yes, continue to hide your head in the sand and ignore the Scriptures which are clearly teaching contrary to free-willer theology, including John 6, 10, Ephesians 1, 2, Romans 8, 9 and lots of other verses that I have largely listed on the threads I've created.
By the way, your claim that you are worthy makes me sick, if you are talking about worthy of salvation. Jesus is the worthy one, not us. Worthiness is why we worship God, not something to glory in.
By the way, I will note that a large part of this persons' post is based on false assumptions regarding Reformed theology. Also, I can't take the time to address every single claim in regards to this topic.
I suggest that you get a good book on Reformed theology if you really want an accurate portrayal of it, and the one I recommend is Five Points of Calvinism by David Steele. The individuals on this site are not accurately portraying it, although I don't doubt the intentions of some of them. Others are simply misinformed and repeating propaganda.
I also recommend audios by Brian Borgman on this issue. They are on SermonAudio. I can provide links if anyone is interested. My email address is in the signature.
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those are not nasty comments at when matched with your rhetoric
when are you going to answer everyone who is asking if you think you were saved before you heard the gospel?
and you should get out of the basement for a little fresh air
as it is, everyone, including the op whom I disagree with regarding Calvinism, has disagreed with you and told you that you do not have proper knowledge of scripture
why do you pick on me? LOL!
I have discussed Romans 10 many times in different threads. The first few verses in Romans 10 Paul is talking about people of Israel, who have a ZEAL of God (which the natural man in 1 Cor 2:14 does not have) which indicates that they are eternally saved. Pauls prayer is that they might be delivered (saved not eternally, that is already secured) from their lack of knowledge of the fullness of the gospel. The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14 will not confess and believe in the things of the Spirit that he cannot discern. When they hear the gospel explained in its fullness and confess and believe they will be delivered from their lack of knowledge and are following God's commandments by their good works.
