Is unconditional election biblical?

[fredoheaven]

But can ppl in remote places who never heard of the Christ, can they be saved w/o ever hearing the word of God, never knowing the of the Christ?

Jesus had to place the importance of worldwide missionary work where people in remote places had a chance to hear the saving knowledge of Christ. The lack of Christian to share the gospel with every creature or not gong in the field is very damaging. The world is lost and needs Christ. Christ is the only way to eternity and the gospel must be proclaimed to the four corners of the earth for the power of God unto salvation is vested only in it to those who would respond by faith.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Gree

 

[fredoheaven]

You have given me scriptures of Paul preaching to the church at Corinth. When a person is newly reborn of the Spirit they are but babes in Christ and in need of being taught the fulness of the gospel. Isaiah 28:9 - Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

I have to agree those who are born again by the Spirit are babes in Christ and need to grow in the knowledge, understanding doctrines. They need the pure milk of the word, they should be breastfed and this growth takes a lifetime.

 

[Whispered]

1. Sola Gratia (Grace alone)
Salvation is the free gift of God to man. It is given by God’s Grace alone and not through any merit on the part of the Christian.

2. Sola Fide (Faith alone)
We are judged righteous in the sight of God purely on the basis of our faith. The atoning sacrifice of Christ leads to righteousness being imputed to us as sinners through a legal declaration by God. This is often stated as Justification by faith alone. There is a clear distinction between Justification and Sanctification, the latter being the growth in holiness arising from the work of the Holy Spirit in the Christian.

3. Solus Christus (Christ alone)
Christ is the one Mediator between God and man and our salvation is accomplished only through His death and resurrection.

4. Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone)
Scripture alone is the only infallible source of divine revelation and the final authority for matters of faith and practice. Sola Scriptura does not mean that all truth is contained in the Bible (for example the Nicene Creed is widely accepted and recited within orthodox Christianity), but rather that all mankind needs to know for salvation is contained within its pages.


5. Soli Deo Gloria (To the glory of God alone)
Every aspect of the Christian life is to be seen as giving glory to God. In essence, this summarises the other four Soli above. It also stemmed from the reformers opposition to what they perceived as the unwarranted glorification of the Popes and other clergy.

These are what are called the Five Solas of the Reformation. All reformed folk adhere to these. They are focused upon the Christ and the scriptures that speak of Him.

Please share if you would, are the 5 Solas, which I am aware of, have any accessibility to those who , per Reformed Theology, are Totally Depraved?

 

[Whispered]

Jesus had to place the importance of worldwide missionary work where people in remote places had a chance to hear the saving knowledge of Christ. The lack of Christian to share the gospel with every creature or not gong in the field is very damaging. The world is lost and needs Christ. Christ is the only way to eternity and the gospel must be proclaimed to the four corners of the earth for the power of God unto salvation is vested only in it to those who would respond by faith.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Gree

I would submit that the martyrdom of John Allen Chau, speaks as to what the power and conviction of proselytizing can cost the faithful.

I think that is why the verse in 1st Timothy 4 lends comfort to those who may fear the world's people who may die never hearing the Gospel, as are those who martyred our Brother Chau, will die damned in their sin.

I think verse 10 f 1st Timothy 4 remedies our concern in that regard. Jesus took the sins of the world upon Himself on the cross. That was God work there. And as such I believe it is God's mercy that will meet those who never heard the Gospel.

In north Korea for example, a missionary group were good hearted and yet naive in their efforts not long ago to spread the Good News there. They were air dropping Bibles to the people. However, in NK possession of a Bible results in death.

So while the good hearted missionaries were on their mission to spread the Good News, the bad news of the north Korean dictatorship is, if it is found in the possession of a north Korean that person will be murdered. Now, the reflex response to that fact may be, well the flesh is meaningless, but the soul shall be with God forever. So they didn't actually die!
But those people knowing the law enforced by their dictator , who is seen as a god on earth, are afraid to die! And therefore we cannot presume they ever even opened those Bibles.
So then what? The Bible is in their possession, their government murders them for that, and where does their soul go? Hell? Because they didn't accept Christ first?

I think we should put more trust in God than our mortal efforts of spreading the word. When God is Omni-Benevolent I have to trust that the primitives of north Sentinal island will receive His mercy when they die. As will the people of north Korea.


I think we Christians should also perhaps consider that we in our daily life, on the Net and off, are also a living tract, a living testament, of God's saving grace.
There's an old saying, you may be the only Bible some people read.

 

[fredoheaven]

What happens to those who died never hearing the gospel, my friend?

This is some kind of tricky question, since this may concern that pre-cross salvation or those who have actually never heard of Christ gospel bringing us back as far as to Abraham. But if the questions concern the post cross salvation then I would say, they are lost, remain unsaved. The rise of technology appears a good solution to reach out to all folks. Even the remotest place and in the jungles here in the Philippines are now being reached with the gospel of Christ.

 

[Whispered]

This is some kind of tricky question, since this may concern that pre-cross salvation or those who have actually never heard of Christ gospel bringing us back as far as to Abraham. But if the questions concern the post cross salvation then I would say, they are lost, remain unsaved. The rise of technology appears a good solution to reach out to all folks. Even the remotest place and in the jungles here in the Philippines are now being reached with the gospel of Christ.

Ah, but if I may, you addressed your response to someone who carries the quotes of the reformers as their signature.
That is key in affording an answer to those specifics in their theology.

First we have to consider before answering the question, what does Reformed Theology teach about people in general?
While TULIP is part of the doctrine of Calvinism, it is also the acronym that applies in all of Reformed Theology.
Therefore, it is a trick question in light of the fact that the believer in Reformed Theology first must agree that all people are what TULIP says they are.
And that means first and foremost they are Totally Depraved!
That is true and is part of any Protestant (word origin, protest-ant, protestors against the Roman Catholic church docrines) confession.
Therefore, what is that person who , per their question, dies never having heard the Gospel? Answer according to Reformed Theology, they are Totally Depraved.
Total depravity is a Christian theological doctrine derived from the concept of original sin. It is the teaching that, as a consequence of the Fall of Man, every person born into the world is enslaved to the service of sin as a result of their fallen nature and, apart from the efficacious or prevenient grace of God, is utterly unable to choose to follow God, refrain from evil, or accept the gift of salvation as it is offered.

This is why preaching is contrary to Reformed Theology and its doctrine of Total Depravity.
Preaching is only able to be appreciated by those who are unconditonally elected, and made to be in God's grace against their will, because they cannot exercise their will to accept God because they are totally depraved, and therefore by His act upon them, called, Irresistible Grace, the "I" in TULIP, so that afterward it is then when they are made able to understand preaching and the Bible.


"Calvinism assumes that without the intervention of God no one will ever want Christ. Left to themselves, no one will ever choose Christ"(Sproul, Chosen By God , 34).

 

[fredoheaven]

I would submit that the martyrdom of John Allen Chau, speaks as to what the power and conviction of proselytizing can cost the faithful.

I think that is why the verse in 1st Timothy 4 lends comfort to those who may fear the world's people who may die never hearing the Gospel, as are those who martyred our Brother Chau, will die damned in their sin.

I think verse 10 f 1st Timothy 4 remedies our concern in that regard. Jesus took the sins of the world upon Himself on the cross. That was God work there. And as such I believe it is God's mercy that will meet those who never heard the Gospel.

In north Korea for example, a missionary group were good hearted and yet naive in their efforts not long ago to spread the Good News there. They were air dropping Bibles to the people. However, in NK possession of a Bible results in death.

So while the good hearted missionaries were on their mission to spread the Good News, the bad news of the north Korean dictatorship is, if it is found in the possession of a north Korean that person will be murdered. Now, the reflex response to that fact may be, well the flesh is meaningless, but the soul shall be with God forever. So they didn't actually die!
But those people knowing the law enforced by their dictator , who is seen as a god on earth, are afraid to die! And therefore we cannot presume they ever even opened those Bibles.
So then what? The Bible is in their possession, their government murders them for that, and where does their soul go? Hell? Because they didn't accept Christ first?

I think we should put more trust in God than our mortal efforts of spreading the word. When God is Omni-Benevolent I have to trust that the primitives of north Sentinal island will receive His mercy when they die. As will the people of north Korea.


I think we Christians should also perhaps consider that we in our daily life, on the Net and off, are also a living tract, a living testament, of God's saving grace.
There's an old saying, you may be the only Bible some people read.

Umm, these missionaries are doing fine. The rest, you have to let God take full control. The mercy and grace of God personified by Christ is already done on the cross, it's the duty of the Christian to share it in any possible means. Just do your best to present it and God will do the rest. Actually, it is not us who is the Saviour, Christ is.

God bless

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Can you post some scriptures with the word saved or salvation that do not harmonize if applying them to eternal deliverance?

Acts 2:40 - And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Matt 16:25 - For whosoever will save his life shall lose it, and whosoever shall lose his life for my sake shall find it. Matt 3:4 - And he saith unto them, is it lawful to do good on the sabbath day, or to do evil? To save life, or to kill? But they held their piece. 1 Cor 1:21 -
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. Paul is following Jesus's instructions to his Apostles to go and preach to the lost sheep (those who have eternal life and believe) of the house of Israel, which ties in with Romans 10:1-2-3 - Where those of Israel had a Zeal of God (evidence of being born again) but needed to be saved from their lack of knowledge of the scriptures. Got to go, will give you more later.

 

[posthuman]

actually God is outside of time

He is not mortal nor does He exist in the same plane that we do

He also knows the past

next

How do you figure the fact that God is above time nullifies @Hevosmies point?

It seems to me His omniscience and eternal, timeless nature are qualities that more strongly corroborate a sure election than an unsure one. I don't see how you connect those things to a promise or decision He makes being possible to rescind...?

Thanks

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

This is some kind of tricky question, since this may concern that pre-cross salvation or those who have actually never heard of Christ gospel bringing us back as far as to Abraham. But if the questions concern the post cross salvation then I would say, they are lost, remain unsaved. The rise of technology appears a good solution to reach out to all folks. Even the remotest place and in the jungles here in the Philippines are now being reached with the gospel of Christ.

Again, pre or post-cross, none can be saved without knowing about the Christ. Pre-cross saved folk looked towards the cross, post-cross saved folk look back to the cross. The cross is central to the gospel, for w/o it, none of us would be saved.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Please share if you would, are the 5 Solas, which I am aware of, have any accessibility to those who , per Reformed Theology, are Totally Depraved?

The five solas are what saved ppl need to adhere to. The lost can’t grasp the scriptures per 1 Corinthians 1:18 & 1 Corinthians 2:14.

 

[IFOLLOWHIM]

Sure there is.
The Gospel truth refutes the Unconditional Election teaching.

So that people may know what we're discussing in the event you entered this thread at this stage without reading all the many pages prior. UC is part of a false doctrine that, in a nutshell, informs you the reader that God gives His grace, and gives His chosen people, the elect, those He pre-selected to save before anything was created, by force and against their will. Because, and this is key to understand UC is not part of a doctrine that honors the actual God of creation, God first created all humans to be wholly immoral and without the capacity to exercise free will choices for their own sake. Because they were made by God to be totally immoral and devoid of righteousness.
Some adherents of UC argue that no, God gives people the free will to choose how to live their life! But they insist it stops there. And they are not able to choose to follow Jesus unless God makes them to.
Of course that is illogical. And it also sullies the Omni-Benevolent character of God to argue God gave totally depraved , think about the meaning of those two words, the ability to choose how to live, which means to choose how to live rightly or wrongly, and that is where it stops.

God didn't allow them to freely choose to hear the Gospel and choose to repent and come to Jesus.
When someone is first totally depraved, as Reformed Theology and Calvinism state, then they are naturally unable to make free will choices for the good of their life. Which refutes the argument by some that God lets the Totally Depraved only to choose by their own free will how to live. But not how to live eternally in Christ.

Unconditional election - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconditional_election

Overview
Unconditional election (also known as unconditional grace) is a Reformed doctrine relating to Predestination that describes the actions and motives of God in eternity past, before he created the world, where he predestinated some people to receive salvation, the elect, and the rest he left to continue in their sins and receive the just punishment, eternal damnation, for their transgressions of God's law as outlined in the old and new Testaments of the Bible. God made these choices according to his own purposes apart from any conditions or qualities related to those persons.



Total Depravity = All men have inherited the sin of Adam through their parents and are morally unable to choose to follow God and be saved because of their own depraved, sinful nature which extends to every part of their personality.
More reading: Flaws in Calvinism
Note: Calvinism and Reformed Theology share the same precepts. This precept culminates in the acronym , TULIP.
T=Total Depravity
U= Unconditipnal Election
L=Limited Atonement
I=Irresistible Grace
P=Perseverance of the Saints

Thank you for your explanation! I am just a simple follower of God's word. It states.....I believe! This loopy indoctrination will cause many to lift up their heads and say" " Lord,Lord did we not..... "! For them I am sorry,and would pull them from the fires if they would be willing but alas..............! Again thanks!

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

They are let to God's mercy. Because while all of creation is proof of God, all of creation does not teach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Therefore, if God is to be believed as a Father who is also Omni-Benevolent and Omniscient, He knows those who were never able to hear the Gospel. And as such, is then their judge as one who is their creator, and Omni-Benevolent.
And further, because when Jesus died on the cross He took the sins of the whole world upon Himself there.
The Book of 1st Timothy chapter 4
10 For to this end we labor and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of them that believe.

Babies don't hear the Gospel. If they die in utero, or die shortly after birth from SIDS, what happens to them?

No my friend. Those who die without ever coming to saving faith are never left to God’s mercy, but His justice. He is not merciful to everyone w/o exception, as Paul writes in Romans 9:15 and as Moses wrote in Exodus 33:19. He will have mercy upon whom He will have mercy. It’s His right to do so. He has chosen to have mercy on some, and He has chosen to harden whom He will harden. It’s His right to do so.

Now, in regards to babies. The Bible is silent on their fate. The whole human race fell when Adam fell, as they were in him when he fell. This includes babies. In 1 Samuel 15:3, God tells Samuel to tell King Saul to wipe out all the Amelekites, even the infants. Only a cruel God would command infants killed if He viewed them as innocent. No babies are born innocent, but sinners in Adam. As for their eternal destination, I go with Genesis 18:25.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Thank you for your explanation! I am just a simple follower of God's word. It states.....I believe! This loopy indoctrination will cause many to lift up their heads and say" " Lord,Lord did we not..... "! For them I am sorry,and would pull them from the fires if they would be willing but alas..............! Again thanks!

So my friend, what is your stance? Are you for or against Calvinism?

 

[Hevosmies]

How do you figure the fact that God is above time nullifies @Hevosmies point?

It seems to me His omniscience and eternal, timeless nature are qualities that more strongly corroborate a sure election than an unsure one. I don't see how you connect those things to a promise or decision He makes being possible to rescind...?

Thanks

However you slice and dice the pie the truth remains that EVERYONE that has ever been saved and experienced salvation will tell you that we are saved by Jesus, by grace through faith. I believe that everyone who has ever been saved will agree with me that GOD changed their hearts, I know I couldnt of believed in God without GOD working in me!

 

[IFOLLOWHIM]

So my friend, what is your stance? Are you for or against Calvinism?

I'm sorry! Against! We are to serve God and Him only! Not to allow ourselves to be tossed to and fro by the doctrines of men! If your following Calvin then you are not following God!
You may still eat at my table,for the God I serve is love! Love is not only an emotion but an action!

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

However you slice and dice the pie the truth remains that EVERYONE that has ever been saved and experienced salvation will tell you that we are saved by Jesus, by grace through faith. I believe that everyone who has ever been saved will agree with me that GOD changed their hearts, I know I couldnt of believed in God without GOD working in me!

Wonderful truth and testimony my Brother. 👍❤️

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I'm sorry! Against! We are to serve God and Him only! Not to allow ourselves to be tossed to and fro by the doctrines of men! If your following Calvin then you are not following God!
You may still eat at my table,for the God I serve is love! Love is not only an emotion but an action!

Because I say I am a Calvinist doesn’t mean I serve John Calvin. Calvinism is a systematic theology(soteriology) of how God saves ppl.

 

[IFOLLOWHIM]

Because I say I am a Calvinist doesn’t mean I serve John Calvin. Calvinism is a systematic theology(soteriology) of how God saves ppl.

He redeemed us by the blood of His Son! When we believe, repent,accept and live for Him that is how we receive His forgiveness. The mysteries of God are His, I only have to accept that it is so!
I do not need a mans theology or theory to break it down for me!

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

He redeemed us by the blood of His Son! When we believe, repent,accept and live for Him that is how we receive His forgiveness. The mysteries of God are His, I only have to accept that it is so!
I do not need a mans theology or theory to break it down for me!

Anytime you listen to a sermon it’s the same as reading a commentary from John Calvin, Adam Clarke, Matthew Henry, Matthew Poole, or any other person. Sermons preached explain God’s word to ppl.