It's not an insult...

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Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#41
well I was brought up in a Brethern church...from 5 until 20

it was a great church but they did not teach on the thing on the gifts and the only time tongues was mentioned I thought it was something that came out of the jungle and 'ate yah'...ie darkest parts of Africa :eek:
Where are you now?
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,891
2,528
113
#43
I gave an answer that was not based on what people are like because each one of us is lost without Jesus

we are transformed by the Holy Spirit

there is no ideal in this world
Ok
 

DWR

Well-known member
Apr 27, 2020
558
317
63
#44
the wording is misunderstood everyone who receives Jesus as Lord and savior have the Holy Spirit in them as a resident. I am pentecostal and speaking in tongues IS NOT Proof you are saved. however, empowering of the Holy Spirit when "HE comes upon you" is a biblically different work of the Holy Spirit who is in you. The Word of God shows this throughout the Bible in both Old and New Testament.

The Spirit of the Lord came upon also known as the unction in the New Testament,

God was with David and the Spirit of the Lord came upon him. Samson the Spirit of the Lord came upon him, prophet Elijah the Spirit of the Lord came upon him. over and over this is seen. Why? to draw distinction that God was doing something that man could not do in himself, The power of God. This is seen in the New Testament greatly in the Book of Acts and the four gospels.
I know that you do not believe speaking in tongues is proof of salvation but Kelby does.
 

DWR

Well-known member
Apr 27, 2020
558
317
63
#45
it is not a false doctrine

Kelby is one of the most, if not THE most generous and kind person posting

you disagree. that's all

but why do you have to judge the person too? that is where the problem occurs
So you agree with Kelby that if one does not speak in tongues they are not saved.
 
L

lenna

Guest
#48
So you agree with Kelby that if one does not speak in tongues they are not saved.

Kelby didn't say that and neither does scripture and neither do I

quit it
 

DWR

Well-known member
Apr 27, 2020
558
317
63
#49
Kelby didn't say that and neither does scripture and neither do I

quit it
You might want to check Kelby's post in THE PURPOSE OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES thread.
If I have mistaken Kelby's belief for someone else , I am sorry.
Let Kelby clear this up.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
34,399
12,082
113
66
Tennessee
#50
ok

Calvary Chapel.... not the newer version

big on Bible, believe in the gifts but are low key and no weird stuff

but I have moved far far away from where I grew up
Big on bible is a good foundation block.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,464
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#52
That's where I was baptized. Uh; correction. We went to a lagoon from Maranatha Village, and had a picknick afterward.
From the original in Costa Mesa. The I found it crusade/movement. (Pastor Chuck Smiths surfer outreach)
 

DWR

Well-known member
Apr 27, 2020
558
317
63
#53
I have a real problem with people telling me I need this or that in my life as a child of God.
They may deny it, but they are judging. Saying I am lacking. I am less a child than they are.

When the Holy Spirit came upon that church in that upper room, they went out and preached the Gospel to those in and around Jerusalem.
They spoke in languages and dialects they had not previously spoke and those they spoke to understood what was said in their native languages or dialects.
What is call speaking in tongues today has no resemblance to what took place then nor what Paul addressed in Corinthians.
What I see today is people calling attention to themselves and not to Jesus.
And I also see those who seldom talk about tongues, do not believe it has anything to do with salvation but also see and have debated with those who make speaking in tongues the very center of their worship and believe if one does not speak in tongues they are not saved.

It is never to be about you or me, it is always to be about Jesus.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,397
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#54
So you agree with Kelby that if one does not speak in tongues they are not saved.
His post is implying that, but since he has not clarified when people asked him to, we have to wait until he does.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,895
670
113
#55
This message is for ALL,

Satan tries really hard to make it sound like an insult rather than an exhortation when someone is advised that they still need to receive the Holy Ghost. ESPECIALLY if that person has faith.

It can be clearly stated that Peter, James and John were even made APOSTLES before they received the Holy Ghost! John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
  • Are we INSULTING them by saying they still needed to receive the Holy Ghost? Absolutely not.
  • Are we claiming they don't have faith in God? No, it's quite easy to see that they believed and trusted God and Jesus.
  • Are we saying the promise of the Holy Ghost isn't for them? Again, Absolutely not.
  • We are just saying that people need to seek until they find, knock until it is opened, ask until they receive...and not give up along the way. We are encouraging them to CONTINUE until they receive all that God has PROMISED them...(including a place in heaven).
  • We see people all over who have heard of Jesus or have a bible or have learned how to pray and recieve things (which means they have FAITH) and yet haven't even heard that they need to receive the Holy Ghost. Paul ran into a group like that in Acts 19. The bible calls them disciples. Paul acknowledged their belief. Yet they hadn't been told that they needed the Holy Ghost. They were thankfully able to receive this without taking offense...internalized the additional truth...were baptized to get it right...and eventually (not immediately) ACTUALLY RECEIVED the Holy Ghost, which didn't ACTUALLY HAPPEN until Paul laid his hands on them. That is a beautiful account because they could have taken offense instead (as Satan works hard to make happen today).
To say that someone still needs to receive the Holy Ghost isn't an insult. It's a statement that we understand that God has more for them and we're believing that they are worthy to receive it... if they TARRY until they are endued with power "For ye shall receive POWER after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you". and "For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in POWER".

Too many have much doctrine and words....but no power... and they fulfil the scripture regarding those who are "having a form of godliness, but denying the power".

If you know you have faith, and you know you believe in Jesus, and you know you love God, but also know you don't really have much power, and especially if you know that you've never "spake with new tongues as the spirit gave them utterance"...you probably need to seek God until he baptizes you with the same Holy Ghost that he gave on the day of Pentecost and promised "unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call".

As I've said to others I now say to ALL... I wish you well on your journey.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Kelby, what you are understanding under " have power, ore not much power" ?
What for you is the measure that you can say, someone has much ore less power?

I dont speak in tongues and never had. So what Holy Spirit is living in me? If you claim that this is not the Holy Spirit which came on pentecost?

If you read what Paul wrote about the Corinthians, which probably almost all spoke in tongues and where baptised with the Holy Spirit. How can you say that this will give power to an believer? Paul judge the corinthian church because of their fleshly livestile and their unmaturity.

You spreading a doctrine which was createt from the pentecostal movement in the beginning of the 20th century, even if you claim that you are not a pentecostal.

Their is no scripture which support your View that speaking in tongues is the proof for to have power.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,689
2,954
113
#56
If one has not been baptized and anointed by the spirit they are not saved.

so yes, it is an insult to tell a person who has proclaimed they have faith to recieved the HS. As your claiming they are not saved,

the baptism of the spirit washes us and makes us clean as we are baptized into his death and burial, and even into his body and he himself.
the anointing of the spirit (the spirit being poured into us as the holy oil was poured on the old priesthood to anoint them as priests) is where the HS is given to us, he indwells us, he seals us and he empowers us,

in that power we are given gifts, but a new believer should be focused on learning what he now is, and growing in Christ, the spirit will reveal his gift when it is time.
Sorry @eternally-gratefull, this is going to be a long post but, your heart is so tender and loving towards God... I have to say all of this to you....

When we first believe in Jesus Christ and get saved and born again, we are SEALED with the Holy Spirit but, the BAPTISM with the Holy Spirit occurs the 1st time we are FILLED with the Holy Spirit and this “baptism and being filled” can happen when we are first saved or it can happen later.

From scripture, we know there are 3 baptisms - water, Spirit and Fire.

“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Matthew 3:11 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 3:11&version=NIV

From scripture, we also know the Holy Spirit “seals” us......

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Ephesians 4:30 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Ephesians 4:30&version=NIV

.......and we are to receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit.....

On one occasion, while he (Jesus) was eating with them, he gave them this command:

“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 1:4-5 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Acts 1:4-5&version=NIV

Another verse:

While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”

They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?” “John’s baptism,” they replied.

Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”

On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
Acts 19:1-6 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Acts 19:1-6&version=NIV

..... and be “filled” with the Holy Spirit.

And the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit.
Acts 13:52 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Acts 13:52&version=NIV

Sealed => God’s “Mark” on us as His possession. (Analogy: God buys a cellphone - God owns it now.)

Baptism => First time God “fills” us with New Wine the Holy Spirit. We may even feel and act drunk like they did on Pentecost. He endues us with power to be witnesses for Jesus Christ in the Earth. (Analogy: God “activates” His cellphone.)

Filled => Stir up the Gift of the Holy Spirit with songs of praise and worship, meditating on God’s Word, fellowship with believers, etc. (Analogy: God charges His cellphone to 100%.)

NOW, we can send and receive texts, phone calls, videos, chats, etc to and from God! We can hear His voice, engage in a relationship with Him!

@KelbyofGod is encouraging all Believers to let God “activate and charge us up 100%” with His Holy Spirit. :love:(y)
 

DWR

Well-known member
Apr 27, 2020
558
317
63
#57
Sorry @eternally-gratefull, this is going to be a long post but, your heart is so tender and loving towards God... I have to say all of this to you....

When we first believe in Jesus Christ and get saved and born again, we are SEALED with the Holy Spirit but, the BAPTISM with the Holy Spirit occurs the 1st time we are FILLED with the Holy Spirit and this “baptism and being filled” can happen when we are first saved or it can happen later.

From scripture, we know there are 3 baptisms - water, Spirit and Fire.

“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Matthew 3:11 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 3:11&version=NIV

From scripture, we also know the Holy Spirit “seals” us......

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Ephesians 4:30 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Ephesians 4:30&version=NIV

.......and we are to receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit.....

On one occasion, while he (Jesus) was eating with them, he gave them this command:

“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 1:4-5 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Acts 1:4-5&version=NIV

Another verse:

While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”

They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?” “John’s baptism,” they replied.

Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”

On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
Acts 19:1-6 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Acts 19:1-6&version=NIV

..... and be “filled” with the Holy Spirit.

And the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit.
Acts 13:52 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Acts 13:52&version=NIV

Sealed => God’s “Mark” on us as His possession. (Analogy: God buys a cellphone - God owns it now.)

Baptism => First time God “fills” us with New Wine the Holy Spirit. We may even feel and act drunk like they did on Pentecost. He endues us with power to be witnesses for Jesus Christ in the Earth. (Analogy: God “activates” His cellphone.)

Filled => Stir up the Gift of the Holy Spirit with songs of praise and worship, meditating on God’s Word, fellowship with believers, etc. (Analogy: God charges His cellphone to 100%.)

NOW, we can send and receive texts, phone calls, videos, chats, etc to and from God! We can hear His voice, engage in a relationship with Him!

@KelbyofGod is encouraging all Believers to let God “activate and charge us up 100%” with His Holy Spirit. :love:(y)
So you are joining Kelby in passing judgment on all who do not speak in tongues as lacking in our Christian life.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,689
2,954
113
#58
Today we recieve the Holy Spirit the moment we believe. That is different to how the apostles recieved the Holy spirit.
We are to be sealed, baptized, and filled with the Holy Spirit.

Sealed is God’s mark on us as His possession- forever His - eternal life.

Baptism with Holy Spirit is the first time we are filled and empowered by the Holy Spirit.

Filled with the Holy Spirit is keeping the Holy Spirit stirred up- not neglecting, grieving or quenching the Holy Spirit.

The sealing happens when we first believe but, the baptism and filling can happen the same time as sealing or it can happen later.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,689
2,954
113
#59
So you are joining Kelby in passing judgment on all who do not speak in tongues as lacking in our Christian life.
You are mistaken in your understanding.

Search and read every scripture in the Bible that says “Holy Spirit.”
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,689
2,954
113
#60
I have a real problem with people telling me I need this or that in my life as a child of God.
They may deny it, but they are judging. Saying I am lacking. I am less a child than they are.

When the Holy Spirit came upon that church in that upper room, they went out and preached the Gospel to those in and around Jerusalem.
They spoke in languages and dialects they had not previously spoke and those they spoke to understood what was said in their native languages or dialects.
What is call speaking in tongues today has no resemblance to what took place then nor what Paul addressed in Corinthians.
What I see today is people calling attention to themselves and not to Jesus.
And I also see those who seldom talk about tongues, do not believe it has anything to do with salvation but also see and have debated with those who make speaking in tongues the very center of their worship and believe if one does not speak in tongues they are not saved.

It is never to be about you or me, it is always to be about Jesus.
I understand your frustration but, just forget about everything you’ve ever seen or heard by people and just go to the Holy Bible and in humility and sincerity ask God for the Truth about His Holy Spirit and read every scripture that mentions the Holy Spirit. Then, decide.

Don’t read commentaries about the Holy Spirit- just read the scriptures, let the Lord teach you. :love:(y)