It's not an insult...

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throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,361
1,572
113
#81
that is your answer ? I am not suggesting you are saying the Holy Spirit is not working today, I am asking you specifically of what the word of God shows in context to what Jesus did and said before HIS accession in Acts chapter one. The foundation is what Jesus said it is
"upon this Rock I will build my church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against" Matthew 16:18 that Rock was the confession of Peter that : “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” The Holy Spirit gave that to Peter as we read. No one is saying we re laying a foundation in 2020 that is straw man, you said in an earlier post

"I don't see today from "pauls epistles" that we have a second experience of the Holy Spirit or a ' baptism of the Holy Spirit beyond 1cor 12.13 ."

I disagree as I see in scripture in John 20:22 and what Jesu said in Luke 24:49 and what Jesus said in Acts 1:8. Are you suggesting Paul changed what Jesus said and did here by writing an "epistles"?

prove it?
I've responded on your thread..
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#83
they are not all the same

I like the one I attend :)

are you aware they had a big split a few years back? had to do with the operation of it
No I didn't.
I left basically about sacramentarianism. I have become sacramental. In other words I believe in the presence of Jesus in his sacraments, and reject symbolism only. I put that in the category with iconism.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,695
2,960
113
#84
This is said in John 1:33 That Jesus is the baptizer in the Holy Spirit

John 20:22 Jesus breathed on them and said " Receive the Holy Spirit

Then Jesus said prior to HIS accession Luke 24:49 go and wait until you receive power from on high

Acts 1:8 HE said you will receive power after the Holy Spirit comes upon you.

two very distinctive works that are done by the same Holy Spirit one done to bare witness we are saved the other work to bare witness of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. none of these self-proclaimed theologians here can express;lain this why? because they have studied and prayed and thus they have the understanding but YE do not!
Now, hold on @CS1 -

In John 20:22, when Jesus Christ breathed on his disciples He was SEALING them with the Holy Spirit.

If Jesus was baptizing his disciples in John 20:22 then He would NOT have later said for them to tarry in Jerusalem for not many days hence you will be BAPTIZED with the Holy Spirit.

Acts 1:1-5 New King James Version (NKJV)
Prologue
1 The former account I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2 until the day in which He was taken up, after He through the Holy Spirit had given commandments to the apostles whom He had chosen, 3 to whom He also presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.

The Holy Spirit Promised
4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

The baptism with the Holy Spirit came on Pentecost - 50 days after Jesus Christ rose from the dead and AFTER Jesus Christ SEALED His believers with the Holy Spirit by breathing on them.

When the Believers were baptized with the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, it was the FIRST TIME they were 100% FILLED with the Holy Spirit.

The SAME THING happens to us.... We are SEALED with the Holy Spirit the moment we believe and receive Jesus Christ as Lord, Savior and King. His Blood takes away our sin and His Body gives us His Righteousness. We become born again and are sealed with the Holy Spirit.

We still need the Baptism with the Holy Spirit and we need to learn how to be continually FILLED with the Holy Spirit so we can walk by the Spirit and NOT fulfill the lust of the flesh.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
7,851
2,283
113
#85
Now, hold on @CS1 -

In John 20:22, when Jesus Christ breathed on his disciples He was SEALING them with the Holy Spirit.

If Jesus was baptizing his disciples in John 20:22 then He would NOT have later said for them to tarry in Jerusalem for not many days hence you will be BAPTIZED with the Holy Spirit.

Acts 1:1-5 New King James Version (NKJV)
Prologue
1 The former account I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2 until the day in which He was taken up, after He through the Holy Spirit had given commandments to the apostles whom He had chosen, 3 to whom He also presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.

The Holy Spirit Promised
4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

The baptism with the Holy Spirit came on Pentecost - 50 days after Jesus Christ rose from the dead and AFTER Jesus Christ SEALED His believers with the Holy Spirit by breathing on them.

When the Believers were baptized with the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, it was the FIRST TIME they were 100% FILLED with the Holy Spirit.

The SAME THING happens to us.... We are SEALED with the Holy Spirit the moment we believe and receive Jesus Christ as Lord, Savior and King. His Blood takes away our sin and His Body gives us His Righteousness. We become born again and are sealed with the Holy Spirit.

We still need the Baptism with the Holy Spirit and we need to learn how to be continually FILLED with the Holy Spirit so we can walk by the Spirit and NOT fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Are you suggesting That they were not sealed by Jesus prior to John 20:22? Where does the term Sealed made by Jesus in John20:22?
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,695
2,960
113
#86
Are you suggesting That they were not sealed by Jesus prior to John 20:22? Where doe the term Sealed made by Jesus in John20:22?
Correct, the disciples were NOT SEALED until Jesus Christ breathed on them in John 20:22 because they had not fully understood the Gift of Salvation until AFTER Jesus Christ rose from the dead and appeared to them and opened their understanding of the scriptures - then they BELIEVED and were SEALED.

This is also why Judas Iscariot could fall away - Judas was NEVER SEALED.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
7,851
2,283
113
#87
Now, hold on @CS1 -

In John 20:22, when Jesus Christ breathed on his disciples He was SEALING them with the Holy Spirit.

If Jesus was baptizing his disciples in John 20:22 then He would NOT have later said for them to tarry in Jerusalem for not many days hence you will be BAPTIZED with the Holy Spirit.

Acts 1:1-5 New King James Version (NKJV)
Prologue
1 The former account I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2 until the day in which He was taken up, after He through the Holy Spirit had given commandments to the apostles whom He had chosen, 3 to whom He also presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.

The Holy Spirit Promised
4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

The baptism with the Holy Spirit came on Pentecost - 50 days after Jesus Christ rose from the dead and AFTER Jesus Christ SEALED His believers with the Holy Spirit by breathing on them.

When the Believers were baptized with the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, it was the FIRST TIME they were 100% FILLED with the Holy Spirit.

The SAME THING happens to us.... We are SEALED with the Holy Spirit the moment we believe and receive Jesus Christ as Lord, Savior and King. His Blood takes away our sin and His Body gives us His Righteousness. We become born again and are sealed with the Holy Spirit.

We still need the Baptism with the Holy Spirit and we need to learn how to be continually FILLED with the Holy Spirit so we can walk by the Spirit and NOT fulfill the lust of the flesh.

I am holding on.... to Jesus :).

You used the term baptizing in context to John 20:22 let me be clear on that I did not say that. What I believe we see in John 20:22 is the Holy Spirit open g their understanding that Jesus is Lord unto salvation. The Holy Spirit became a resident in the believer that day.
In Acts chapter 1 Jesus is now telling them this same Holy Spirit IN you will come upon you for power to be a witnesses of The Lord Jesus and His resurrection .
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
7,851
2,283
113
#88
Correct, the disciples were NOT SEALED until Jesus Christ breathed on them in John 20:22 because they had not fully understood the Gift of Salvation until AFTER Jesus Christ rose from the dead and appeared to them and opened their understanding of the scriptures - then they BELIEVED and were SEALED.

This is also why Judas Iscariot could fall away - Judas was NEVER SEALED.
Ok I do not use the term sealed because Jesus did n to use that here. Jesus said "receive the Holy Spirit".
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,464
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#89
Ok I do not use the term sealed because Jesus did n to use that here. Jesus said "receive the Holy Spirit".
Bla-bla- bla. Jesus didn't even speak English out loud to the Disciples according to scriptures! You are making an debate over words that didn't even exist yet. Your point is moot.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
7,851
2,283
113
#90
Bla-bla- bla. Jesus didn't even speak English out loud to the Disciples according to scriptures! You are making an debate over words that didn't even exist yet. Your point is moot.

that was very enlightening. can you read Hebrew or Greek sir? Are you an english leaner? Is the word Moot come from an old english derivative? The word of God exist in english just as the KJV does. I can see you are quite the literary.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,464
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#91
Correct, the disciples were NOT SEALED until Jesus Christ breathed on them in John 20:22 because they had not fully understood the Gift of Salvation until AFTER Jesus Christ rose from the dead and appeared to them and opened their understanding of the scriptures - then they BELIEVED and were SEALED.

This is also why Judas Iscariot could fall away - Judas was NEVER SEALED.
I didn't intend to butt in, but I've seen him bully other people before. After I read what you wrote, I took him off of ignore to see what his response was. I've got your back little sis.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
7,851
2,283
113
#92
I didn't intend to butt in, but I've seen him bully other people before. After I read what you wrote, I took him off of ignore to see what his response was. I've got your back little sis.
no one bullied anyone. I guess you think those here are incapable of speaking for themselves? You have know back. You could have explained how by the word of God in English for us where the context of your Biblical position you stated was?

Bla-bla- bla. Jesus didn't even speak English out loud to the Disciples according to scriptures! You are making an debate over words that didn't even exist yet. Your point is moot.

The only bully here is you.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,695
2,960
113
#93
I am holding on.... to Jesus :).
Amen! :love::giggle:(y)

You used the term baptizing in context to John 20:22 let me be clear on that I did not say that. What I believe we see in John 20:22 is the Holy Spirit open g their understanding that Jesus is Lord unto salvation. The Holy Spirit became a resident in the believer that day.
In Acts chapter 1 Jesus is now telling them this same Holy Spirit IN you will come upon you for power to be a witnesses of The Lord Jesus and His resurrection .
No, I do NOT use the term "baptizing" in reference to John 20:22, instead I used the term "SEALED" and yes, I agree with you that Jesus Christ opened up the disciples understanding of the Scriptures by breathing on them and saying "Receive the Holy Spirit," BUT they were NOT Baptized with the Holy Spirit in John 20:22, they were SEALED.

Ok I do not use the term sealed because Jesus did n to use that here. Jesus said "receive the Holy Spirit".
Correct, Jesus Christ did NOT use the term "SEALED."

From the scriptures and snuggling with the Holy Spirit, I've learned that there are 3 distinct interactions God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) do with Believers - Seal, Baptize and Fill.

Ephesians 1:12-13 King James Version (KJV)
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Acts 1:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts 2:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Being "continually filled" with the Holy Spirit is staying at 100% which like Jesus means we got go away and spend some quiet time alone with God and charged up again, making melody in our heart to God, singing songs of praise and worship, prayer, meditating on God's Word, fellowshipping with God and other Believers, etc.

There are gifts, fruit and offices that the Holy Spirit operates in Believers but, our interaction is to be sealed, baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit. Then we are effective witnesses for Jesus Christ.

The Father's Will is accomplished with His Word (Jesus Christ) and His Holy Spirit. Both need to be operating in us, both make us able to worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth. :love:(y)
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
7,851
2,283
113
#94
Amen! :love::giggle:(y)



No, I do NOT use the term "baptizing" in reference to John 20:22, instead I used the term "SEALED" and yes, I agree with you that Jesus Christ opened up the disciples understanding of the Scriptures by breathing on them and saying "Receive the Holy Spirit," BUT they were NOT Baptized with the Holy Spirit in John 20:22, they were SEALED.



Correct, Jesus Christ did NOT use the term "SEALED."

From the scriptures and snuggling with the Holy Spirit, I've learned that there are 3 distinct interactions God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) do with Believers - Seal, Baptize and Fill.

Ephesians 1:12-13 King James Version (KJV)
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Acts 1:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts 2:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Being "continually filled" with the Holy Spirit is staying at 100% which like Jesus means we got go away and spend some quiet time alone with God and charged up again, making melody in our heart to God, singing songs of praise and worship, prayer, meditating on God's Word, fellowshipping with God and other Believers, etc.

There are gifts, fruit and offices that the Holy Spirit operates in Believers but, our interaction is to be sealed, baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit. Then we are effective witnesses for Jesus Christ.

The Father's Will is accomplished with His Word (Jesus Christ) and His Holy Spirit. Both need to be operating in us, both make us able to worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth. :love:(y)

Ok agree I have nor said they were Baptized with the Holy Spirit in John 20:22, what I believed the word of God does say, is the Baptism in the Holy Spirit which is the empowerment described in Acts Chapter 2 being distinctly different from the work of the Holy Spirit for salvation.

The word "Sealed" imho was not used by Jesus as much if any over " Saved" (Sozo), Belief, faith , and power of the Holy Spirit. The issue with some here is you get everything after you come to the saving knowledge of Jesus as Lord. Yet we see the Holy Spirit does far more than just lead one to salvation. HE becomes a resident in the believer and HE comes upon the believer to empower them to be a witnesses an Effective witness.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,695
2,960
113
#95
Whoa! Whoa! Dear sweeeeeet brothers of mine - @calibob and @CS1 - no need to argue! :love:(y)

I didn't intend to butt in, but I've seen him bully other people before. After I read what you wrote, I took him off of ignore to see what his response was. I've got your back little sis.
@calibob - I was NOT taking ANYTHING CS1 was posting as bullying me. Nothing he posted was offensive to me at all. No worries! :love:

What a sweet brother you are, though... to jump in and guard my back! Very precious to me! :love:(y)

I'll let you in on a little secret.......CS1 has jumped in and guarded my back on several occasions, too. We are not enemies.... there is mutual love and respect for each other. :love:(y)

no one bullied anyone. I guess you think those here are incapable of speaking for themselves? You have know back. You could have explained how by the word of God in English for us where the context of your Biblical position you stated was?

Bla-bla- bla. Jesus didn't even speak English out loud to the Disciples according to scriptures! You are making an debate over words that didn't even exist yet. Your point is moot.

The only bully here is you.
Now, now..... @CS1 - watch your temper. No need to get upset with calibob - he misunderstood your post.

Come on, you two.... make up it was just all a misunderstanding!

Much love and respect and honor to both of you - you're both very dear to my heart! :love:(y)
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
7,851
2,283
113
#96
Whoa! Whoa! Dear sweeeeeet brothers of mine - @calibob and @CS1 - no need to argue! :love:(y)



@calibob - I was NOT taking ANYTHING CS1 was posting as bullying me. Nothing he posted was offensive to me at all. No worries! :love:

What a sweet brother you are, though... to jump in and guard my back! Very precious to me! :love:(y)

I'll let you in on a little secret.......CS1 has jumped in and guarded my back on several occasions, too. We are not enemies.... there is mutual love and respect for each other. :love:(y)



Now, now..... @CS1 - watch your temper. No need to get upset with calibob - he misunderstood your post.

Come on, you too.... make up it was just all a misunderstanding!

Much love and respect and honor to both of you - you're both very dear to my heart! :love:(y)
well amen then :)
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,464
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#97
Sorry Bro, you and I have had our differences before so I put you on ignore for the sake of my serenity. I've been away so long I forgotten why I did it. After I read Laffturs post then, "Show ignored content. I over reacted and jumped to her defense as a reaction. She is a dear friend and sometimes that's what friends do. I apologize.

That's my story and I approved of this message. :)
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
7,851
2,283
113
#99
Sorry Bro, you and I have had our differences before so I put you on ignore for the sake of my serenity. I've been away so long I forgotten why I did it. After I read Laffturs post then, "Show ignored content. I over reacted and jumped to her defense as a reaction. She is a dear friend and sometimes that's what friends do. I apologize.

That's my story and I approved of this message. :)
no problem if I have offend you please forgive me that is not my intent. yes it was very smokey here but I mush more north to where the fires are now. You have my vote

God bless,
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,695
2,960
113
Dear Heavenly Father, :love:

Thank You for my sweeeeet brothers - @calibob and @CS1! Bless them both today in a very special way! Pour out a wonderful blessing for them, in the Name of Jesus Christ - our Lord, Savior and King, amen. :love:(y)