Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
9,548
5,056
113
You don't know your bible very well!

Did you just overlook when Jesus got the book into His hands? It was just after He ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down. You are trying to ADD 2000 years to those verses. It is not there and was never meant to be there. The first seal was opened as soon as Jesus got the book. The fifth seal was opened in time for Stephen to be martyred. This is scripture rightly divided and correctly understood. You did so well on the other posts: I am surprised.
If you don't understand that Daniels 70th week is precisely 7 years long, eschatologically you are up the creek without a paddle my friend.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
9,548
5,056
113
If the Wedding Supper begins after the Rapture in pre-trib theory, how can the martyred from the Tribulation be guests?

You talk in so many circles, that even when you do apply truth, it's so far out of sequence you prove your own views to be incorrect.
The wedding supper doesn't begin immediately after the rapture lol. It occurs in chapter 19 after the Second Coming. The 70th week of Daniel intervenes between the rapture and the wedding supper.

The rapture has already occurred in chapter 4. The 70th week of Daniel judgments occurr between chapters 6 through 18......precisely 7 years.

Dead easy. I no idea why everyone is so confused about the matter.
 

Heaven_Bound

Active member
Dec 29, 2021
828
190
43
The wedding supper doesn't begin immediately after the rapture lol. It occurs in chapter 19 after the Second Coming. The 70th week of Daniel intervenes between the rapture and the wedding supper.

The rapture has already occurred in chapter 4. The 70th week of Daniel judgments occurr between chapters 6 through 18......precisely 7 years.

Dead easy. I no idea why everyone is so confused about the matter.
Not confused, but I have been debating you for a few days now and noticed a pattern. My bad for assuming!
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
9,548
5,056
113
It has always been a MYTH that the week will begin with the first seal. That is pulling the first seal out if its 32 AD context. The week has always been written to start with the 30 minutes of silence. The only problem has been people did not know. It's sort of like Martin Luther discovering salvation by faith alone - it was always there but people did not know.

You are mistaken: the scroll contains the week (it is written inside the scroll) but the scroll cannot be opened to reveal and begin the week until ALL SEALS are opened first.

No, Revelation 4:1 took place around 95 AD. It was about John. Paul teaches us that the rapture must come just before wrath, so just before the 6th seal.
The first 69 weeks of Daniel chapter 9......consisted of precisely 173,880 days aka 69 weeks (483 years) of 360 day years.

Likewise the 70th week consists of precisely 1 week (7 years) of 360 day years.

Anything else is error, fantasy or speculation.

Both full preterism (70ad WAS clearly prophesied by Jesus just not the exact date) and amillennialism are heresies IMO. Furthermore the date of 70 A.D. matches absolutely nothing in terms of OT chronological prophecy.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
11,117
2,677
113
Too bad people like the beheaded of Revelation 20, the 144k and the two witnesses miss out of this supposed wedding while they are the church on the Earth suffering through the Great Tribulation from satan, most of them being killed because they have the testimony of Christ.
They don't.

They arrive a little late, but attend nonetheless.
Even the Jews in rev 14 attend.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
3,512
926
113
All of the elect attend the wedding SUPPER. Either as the Bride or as the wedding guests.

Of course the Bride attends her own wedding feast. No need to comment further.

The wedding supper GUESTS include OT saints, martyred resurrected tribulation saints, tribulation saint survivors, 144,000, and Israelites who survive the tribulation. A mixed multitude.
"resurrected tribulation saints, tribulation saint survivors" Doesn't that prove the Great Tribulation has to start and end before those saints can attend? That would place the rapture and wedding AFTER the Great Tribulation. That's post-trib except no saint will be a guest. All saints are the bride.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
3,512
926
113
The wedding supper doesn't begin immediately after the rapture lol. It occurs in chapter 19 after the Second Coming. The 70th week of Daniel intervenes between the rapture and the wedding supper.

Then the groom came for the bride too soon in your theology. When the groom comes, the wedding happens. There is no waiting, especially not 7 years.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
9,548
5,056
113
"resurrected tribulation saints, tribulation saint survivors" Doesn't that prove the Great Tribulation has to start and end before those saints can attend? That would place the rapture and wedding AFTER the Great Tribulation. That's post-trib except no saint will be a guest. All saints are the bride.
No no no read my posts.

1) FIRST: Rapture with Christ and His Bride enjoying seven years of heavenly Marital bliss. Christ comes FOR His Church/Bride.
2) NEXT: Daniels 70th week aka Revelation ch 6 thru 18 aka tribulation and great tribulation...for the earth dwellers.
3) THEN: Second Coming (ends Daniels 70th week) aka wedding SUPPER aka Revelation 19 and beyond. All of the elect are wedding supper GUESTS.......all of the non-Church elect that is. In other words, everybody except the Church/Bride, this Church/Bride who returns WITH Christ at the Second Coming.

That's exactly what the Bible says. That's the way it is and that's the way it's going to be.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
9,548
5,056
113
Then the groom came for the bride too soon in your theology. When the groom comes, the wedding happens. There is no waiting, especially not 7 years.
Your statement made in error, because you OBVIOUSLY do not understand the Jewish wedding ceremony sequence.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
3,512
926
113
Your statement made in error, because you OBVIOUSLY do not understand the Jewish wedding ceremony sequence.

I obviously know it better than you do. The Groom comes for the bride and takes her to the wedding. There is no gap. So, pretrib is wrong on yet another issue.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
9,548
5,056
113
I obviously know it better than you do. The Groom comes for the bride and takes her to the wedding. There is no gap. So, pretrib is wrong on yet another issue.
With respect to Scripture that makes........no sense. To be frank you rarely if ever make any sense.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
3,512
926
113
With respect to Scripture that makes........no sense. To be frank you rarely if ever make any sense.
This is just dodging the issue and tossing out an Ad Hominem. I proved your pretrib theory wrong using your own supposed facts.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
9,548
5,056
113
This is just dodging the issue and tossing out an Ad Hominem. I proved your pretrib theory wrong using your own supposed facts.
You literally have no idea what you're talking about buddy. You're not making any sense you're completely incoherent.

What I have laid out in the last few posts is eschatologically.......pretty much flawless. Doctor Fruchtenbaum and I concur as regards the rapture......down to the finest details.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
3,512
926
113
You literally have no idea what you're talking about buddy. You're not making any sense you're completely incoherent.

What I have laid out in the last few posts is eschatologically.......pretty much flawless.

YOU literally have no idea what you're talking about buddy. YOU'RE not making any sense you're completely incoherent.

What I have laid out in the last few posts is eschatologically.......pretty much flawless.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
9,548
5,056
113
YOU literally have no idea what you're talking about buddy. YOU'RE not making any sense you're completely incoherent.

What I have laid out in the last few posts is eschatologically.......pretty much flawless.
o_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_O:oops::oops::oops::oops::oops:
 

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
107
63
If you don't understand that Daniels 70th week is precisely 7 years long, eschatologically you are up the creek without a paddle my friend.
I did not say anything about the length of the week. I was only speaking of verses in Revelation that is NOT the 70th week. Just so you will always know, the 70th week is marked by 7's: the 7th seal starts the week, the 7th vial ends the week, and the midpoint is marked with the 7th trumpet.

There are five mentions of the last half of the week, two given in months, two given in days and one given in times. Of course the week is 7 years, or 84 months or 2520 days.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
6,893
5,586
113
It is only after these seven years that the SC occurs and the wedding SUPPER happens on the earth. Which is what is being portrayed in Revelation 19.....
I believe that there is a supper for the vultures after the SC...

Revelation
19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all [men, both] free and bond, both small and great.
 

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
107
63
The wedding supper doesn't begin immediately after the rapture lol. It occurs in chapter 19 after the Second Coming. The 70th week of Daniel intervenes between the rapture and the wedding supper.

The rapture has already occurred in chapter 4. The 70th week of Daniel judgments occurr between chapters 6 through 18......precisely 7 years.

Dead easy. I no idea why everyone is so confused about the matter.
Sorry, but Rev. 4:1 is not the rapture. That is John being caught up to show us things in the future.
You are also mistaken about both the start and the end of the week. In chapters the week goes from chapter 8 to chapter 16.
And you also missed it with the marriage and supper, they come BEFORE His coming to Armageddon.
 

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
107
63
I believe that there is a supper for the vultures after the SC...

Revelation
19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all [men, both] free and bond, both small and great.
Maybe he is confusing the two suppers! ;-)
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
9,548
5,056
113
I believe that there is a supper for the vultures after the SC...

Revelation
19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all [men, both] free and bond, both small and great.
Correct. That is one aspect of the supper. But I'm sure it's a very long and drawn out affair. Perhaps extending into eternity......