Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
Again, James 1:18 indicates there is MORE THAN ONE "firstfruit" (and Lev23 shows TWO mentions of "firstfruit"); and some versions show the word "firstfruit" in 2Th2:13 (which I believe should indeed read this way... "aparche" as opposed to "ap' arche")
I just realized that I misread and was thinking of James 2:18. Oops. My bad.

Now, regarding 1:18, James said believers are A KIND OF first fruits. He doesn't describe us AS firstfruits. Jesus IS IS IS the firstfruits.

We are A KIND OF first fruit. And 1 Cor 15:23 makes the very clear point that "those who belong to Him" (that would be EVERY believer from Adam on) will be resurrected in one lump, which will occur "when He comes". This refers to His 2nd Coming.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
And in a pre-trib rapture scenario, the two witnesses miss the wedding feast of God.

Seems like these two heroes of the great tribulation deserve a comfortable seat at the table right? Pre-trib theology makes it impossible to let them into the wedding feast. They miss their promised feast with the King.

Fortunately, these two brave saints/witnesses will get their feast post-trib.
:ROFL:

I'm still waiting for one of the pretribbers to explain why the 2W missed getting their immortal bodies before the Trib and then will be killed IN the Trib.

Doesn't add up. Something stinks.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,875
2,111
113
And in a pre-trib rapture scenario, the two witnesses miss the wedding feast of God.
If you are referring to "the wedding feast of the Lamb," NO "saints" [saints of ALL time periods (to that point)] will MISS THAT! ALL will be "present and accounted for," FOR THAT! (...aka the "G347; the meal")--[note: there will be ppl BORN in / during the MK age, so they would be ppl not "born automatically righteous"... (wrote about that in other posts)]

"The wedding feast/supper" IS the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age (at least, its inauguration or "kick-off celebration").

The wedding feast/supper does NOT take place UP IN Heaven, NOR is it the *purpose* of "our Rapture".

It takes place upon His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19 time-slot, instead. (that is well after the 2W had ascended, see)
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,875
2,111
113
TDW: No.

The verses you are alluding to (or attempting to--but which you've conflated somewhat) are speaking of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH; the "imminence / imminent" term (as pre-trib scholars are using it) DOES NOT pertain to THAT point in time (to His RETURN to the earth Rev19). NO.
I had Matthew 24:42-44 in mind and I think it fits what I was saying just fine.

42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Note that Matthew 24:42-44[45-51] is PARALLEL with Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44[45-48], which says, "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347].

This is referring to His Second Coming to the earth point-in-time...
(i.e. as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom! and "WITH [G4862]" His "BRIDE/WIFE [SINGULAR]"... not TO BE WED, at that point ;) )


...thus the "imminent / imminence" term is not being used in reference TO THIS ^ point in the chronology (as "pre-trib scholars" use the term). See again my post on the definition / explanation of the term "imminent / imminence" as pre-trib scholars use the term.



PARALLEL to Matt24:42-44[45-51]... note again v.36 of Luke 12:
36And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately. 37Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. 38And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

39And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. 40Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

41Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
The wedding feast/supper does NOT take place UP IN Heaven, NOR is it the *purpose* of "our Rapture".
Keep in mind the context of the wedding feast in Revelation 19:

The context is this is occuring in heaven. The setting doesn't change from heaven to Earth.

1And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God

8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

So I thought you believed that after the rapture that all saints go to heaven?
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,981
1,261
113
Well, speaking of THAT ^ verse (v.20), it doesn't use the "definite article ['the']" either (like you've written it ^ ). ;)

The verse does use the definite article. I not only showed it to you, I even bolded and underlined it...how is it possible for you to still not see it?
 
May 22, 2020
2,382
358
83
:ROFL:

I'm still waiting for one of the pretribbers to explain why the 2W missed getting their immortal bodies before the Trib and then will be killed IN the Trib.

Doesn't add up. Something stinks.
I am a pre tribulation rapture believer.

Very simple...Enoch and Elijah ...have not died a physical death....but, they will after their appearance as the two witnesses. Then, I have no doubt, will receive their immortal bodies.

What doesn't ad up is that you have failed to study the Bible sufficiently. Don't blame others.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,981
1,261
113
And in a pre-trib rapture scenario, the two witnesses miss the wedding feast of God.
So do the 144k. These are some very important Christians who don't even get to go to the wedding let alone the wedding feast, not to mention all the so called "tribulation saints" who are saved and born again Christians according to the pretrib doctrine. Complete nonsense though. No saved Christian misses the wedding or feast according to post-trib, the only biblical stance on the timing of the rapture.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,981
1,261
113
I am a pre tribulation rapture believer.

Very simple...Enoch and Elijah ...have not died a physical death....but, they will after their appearance as the two witnesses. Then, I have no doubt, will receive their immortal bodies.

How? They missed the resurrection, the rapture, the wedding and wedding feast.
 
May 22, 2020
2,382
358
83
So do the 144k. These are some very important Christians who don't even get to go to the wedding let alone the wedding feast, not to mention all the so called "tribulation saints" who are saved and born again Christians according to the pretrib doctrine. Complete nonsense though. No saved Christian misses the wedding or feast according to post-trib, the only biblical stance on the timing of the rapture.
The 144000...12000 from each of the 12 tribes....will be saved and will be ...seed...to go into the 1000 Millennium reign of Christ on this earth.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,981
1,261
113
The 144000...12000 from each of the 12 tribes....will be saved and will be ...seed...to go into the 1000 Millennium reign of Christ on this earth.
You forgot that they are raptured.
 
May 22, 2020
2,382
358
83
How? They missed the resurrection, the rapture, the wedding and wedding feast.

I don't understand how you can conclude that.
I have no doubt they are prominent enough to receive God's special dispensation of righteousness and will be treated differently than you and I.
 
May 22, 2020
2,382
358
83
You forgot that they are raptured.

Read again...they are not raptured (the 144000).
They are not gathered and saved by God until sometime in the trib period.
In any event God is righteous so I worry not that He is capable of properly handling them.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
Read again...they are not raptured (the 144000).
They are not gathered and saved by God until sometime in the trib period.
In any event God is righteous so I worry not that He is capable of properly handling them.
They're singing before the throne in heaven.

Revelation 14:3
3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,091
2,125
113
This going round and round is getting me a little dizzy... what say we discuss the fear component presented in the OP, considering God has not given us a spirit of fear.

So then, which group, pre-, mid-, post-, or no- would be most filled with fear if they were to 'imagine' their particular scenario is revealed to have been dissembled?

Pre-trib rules out any possibility of martyrdom throughout the tribulation (except those that were martyred previously, of course). Is this the 'hope' of which is clung to so dearly by pre-tribbers?

The God of All Comfort
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, 4who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God. 5For just as the sufferings of Christ overflow to us, so also through Christ our comfort overflows.
6If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which accomplishes in you patient endurance of the same sufferings we experience. 7And our hope for you is sure, because we know that just as you share in our sufferings, so also you will share in our comfort.
8We do not want you to be unaware, brothers, of the hardships we encountered in the province of Asia.a We were under a burden far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired even of life. 9Indeed, we felt we were under the sentence of death, in order that we would not trust in ourselves, but in God, who raises the dead.
10He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and He will deliver us. In Him we have placed our hope that He will yet again deliver us, 11as you help us by your prayers. Then many will give thanks on our behalf for the favor shown us in answer to their prayers.
(2 Corinthians 1, Berean Study Bible)
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
No you dont...lol And you certainly have no clue what's really going on n this evil world we live in?


They have met your challenge many times. I have witnessed it here in just a few days...you have no intentions of listening. You have to be right even when you are proven wrong.
I am challenging you.

You posted my challenge twice.

Never invoked a single verse.

It amazes me ya'll have never produced a verse.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
What is the point of even discussing anything with these guys. It's constant disagreeing. They are not here to change their minds. They will continue to mock, act arrogant and use corrupted Greek concordance and lexicons. Why do you try so hard to change their mind? They are not going to. So is it fun or something? They have a one tract mind and there more than one of those guys on here. They are totally scripted. Like the news media and YouTube trolls
It should be so easy to make your postrib rapture case.

Stop all the emotion and buckle down.
Concept vs concept.