Jesus's sacrifice

[obedienttogod]

In the bible it says that everyone will one day bow down to the Lord and acknowledge Him therefore there will be no atheist thrown in the lake of fire because at that point they will believe in the existence of God. In my view the atheist ends up with God.

So why should we live our lives believing in God, getting baptized, inviting others to become a part of God, obeying the 10 Commandments, etc...if we can be murderers, rapists, atheists, everything that opposes God (Satan worshipers) if we all end up in heaven?

Seems that I am wasting my time obeying Christ if I am going to get the same result.

This makes God, the prophets, anyone who spoke about hell all liars by claiming hell is real (gnashing of teeth/worm dieth not) - the mouth of hell growing larger daily - the rich man/Lazarus in Abraham's Bosom...because it claims hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire. And if sinners are in hell, they get tossed into the Lake of Fire by proxy of hell being tossed there.

 

[Journeyman]

Isaiah 53 <--IT PLEASED GOD it states....

Yes it pleased the Father to bruise his Son, to put him to grief. Why? To exact vemgemce? No. It's because the faithful are bruised by the wicked for being true to God.

This plan was set in motion before God even cast down the world.....and as many have stated above.....

Christ became a sin offering for us
Christ became a curse for us
Christ took our sin upon himself

Jesus became a curse and had the sins of this world inflicted on him by the tongues of false witnesses who tortured and killed him and from the beginning God said,

you (Satan) shall bruise his heel. Gen.3:15

and it is obviously clear that God momentarily forsook JESUS for a reason, and the reason being all the above references........

The truth is.

the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer. 1Pe.3:12, Psa.34:15

Remember what JESUS said to PETER when Peter lip flapped about JESUS not DYING.......Get behind me Satan........The will of the Heavenly Father was for JESUS to not only suffer, but also give up his life momentarily for the world......this he did and because of his faithfulness to the will of the Father he gets it ALL............

No. Peter needed to learn death is not to be feared,

For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 1Pe.2:21

Please do no devalue the purpose and sacrifice of Christ...it was a most glorious death, burial and resurrection on our behalf.

Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 1Pe.4:1

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Rom.8:29

It's people who don't want to arm themselves with the mind of Christ, people who want to be made in the image Jesus is now (but not before), who devalue and dishonor our Saviors sacrifice.

 

[Ignorun]

In the bible it says that everyone will one day bow down to the Lord and acknowledge Him therefore there will be no atheist thrown in the lake of fire because at that point they will believe in the existence of God. In my view the atheist ends up with God.

Tourist, you've been out and about far too long and far too far. Way off the straight and narrow. Your view ain't God's view. There is eternal destruction from the presence of the Lord.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

2 Corinthians 5:21.

 

[Hevosmies]

Even the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ is in debate nowadays.

Oy vey!

Dont even go there man. Thats the Gospel. If Jesus didnt die in our place, then thats game over. Put a fork in it! Its cooked!

 

[posthuman]

Isaiah 53 <--IT PLEASED GOD it states....

Isaiah 53:4-6
Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted.
But He was wounded for our transgressions; He was crushed for our iniquities;
upon Him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with His stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned--every one--to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

this says "we esteemed Him stricken by God"
the question is, is this text saying we were correct in this, or were we wrong?

i am seeing a very direct connection between this and the question of whether God actually forsook Himself ((because Christ is also equally God)) on the cross.

when He sings the opening bar of Psalm 22 is He speaking of Himself or is He speaking as every one of us, whose iniquities He is laying upon Himself? if we are in Him and He takes our sin upon Himself, becoming sin for our sake, then isn't it by the very fact that He is glorified in this rather than abandoned by the Father, that we are preserved in Him, being given the gift of eternal life rather than the damnation we deserve?

if Christ is actually damned on the cross it seems to me that if i am in Him i suffer in Him the very same damnation. but if what "we esteemed" was wrong, and He is not stricken by God, then in Him i am forgiven - He bore my sin and this saves me because He, unlike me, cannot be forsaken by God - because He is in fact God and cannot deny Himself. to me, this is showing that He MUST be God; no one else could possibly bear my guilt and live.

i.e. the work of the cross is able to save if and only if Christ is God, and there is no salvation apart from Him; Yah and Yah alone is salvation

 

[PennEd]

The sins that come from mankind, jealousy, hatred, false witness, murder, were inflicted on Jesus at the cross. And this Jesus endured for all mankind. He suffered for us all, not in place of us all.

Jesus was sinless, but condemned by man or, Jesus was sinless and condemned by God. The former is right, the latter is wrong.

John 10:18 New King James Version (NKJV)
18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”


JOHN 19: NKJV

10 Then Pilate said to Him, “Are You not speaking to me? Do You not know that I have [c]power to crucify You, and power to release You?”

11 Jesus answered, “You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.”

 

[Magenta]

So why should we live our lives believing in God, getting baptized, inviting others to become a part of God, obeying the 10 Commandments, etc...if we can be murderers, rapists, atheists, everything that opposes God (Satan worshipers) if we all end up in heaven?

Seems that I am wasting my time obeying Christ if I am going to get the same result.

This makes God, the prophets, anyone who spoke about hell all liars by claiming hell is real (gnashing of teeth/worm dieth not) - the mouth of hell growing larger daily - the rich man/Lazarus in Abraham's Bosom...because it claims hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire. And if sinners are in hell, they get tossed into the Lake of Fire by proxy of hell being tossed there.

Perhaps doing a study of the word "hell" would help you understand better.

 

[Deade]

You are all trying to mind read God our Father in heaven. It brought tears to my eyes reading that it pleased God to bruise Him (Isa. 53:10).

It was for us and our sins that God willed Christ's suffering the punishment of death, with all the implications attached.

We won't know all the reasons for what our Father thought until He share it with us. Only then will we be able to see from the spiritual plane, because we will be on it.

 

[Magenta]

Matthew 6 1 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.

3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went.

“He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’

7 “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.
“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’

8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’

9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

 

[obedienttogod]

Perhaps doing a study of the word "hell" would help you understand better.

I already know hell generally means grave and the hell Peter spoke about (tartarus), is hell for the fallen angels who specifically disobeyed God even after being cast out. But Jesus spoke of a hell where there is gnashing of teeth and the worm dieth not. When you are dead, there is no ability to gnash your teeth in the grave. So this is obviously speaking of something other than the grave.

 

[obedienttogod]

And even still, while we are in New Jerusalem, after 1,000 years Satan will be released to deceive and cause people to fall.

So, if there is no eternal damnation, then why would God release Satan 1 more time?

Because the people Satan is able to deceive is going to be cast out!!

So, why would God allow this to happen in New Jerusalem, but not here on earth?

Some of you are clearly confused and never put the entire puzzle together!!

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I often hear people say that Jesus was looked at as sinful by his father when he was hanging on the cross, but I never see the bible saying God viewed his son like that. I see God always testifying of his son as holy, good, pure and righteous.

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Mt.3:17

It seems to me the only way Jesus is ever thought of as sinful, is by false accusers and those who believed their lies.

They answered him, “If this man were not doing evil, we would not have delivered him over to you.” Jn.18:30

GOD looks at the heart and LOVE covers a multitude of sin.

 

[Rosemaryx]

I already know hell generally means grave and the hell Peter spoke about (tartarus), is hell for the fallen angels who specifically disobeyed God even after being cast out. But Jesus spoke of a hell where there is gnashing of teeth and the worm dieth not. When you are dead, there is no ability to gnash your teeth in the grave. So this is obviously speaking of something other than the grave.

Hi...Could it be the Lake of fire ?...xox...

 

[Nehemiah6]

Hi...Could it be the Lake of fire ?...xox...

Yes, Hell -- GEHENNA is the Lake of Fire.

It is extremely unfortunate that the KJV translators did not simply transliterate the Hebrew and Greek words which they mistranslated as "hell" and "the grave".

SHEOL/HADES = THE ABODE OF DEPARTED SOUL & SPIRITS (today only for the unsaved)

TARTARUS = THE PRISON OF THE ANGELS WHICH KEPT NOT THEIR FIRST ESTATE

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes it pleased the Father to bruise his Son, to put him to grief. Why? To exact vemgemce? No. It's because the faithful are bruised by the wicked for being true to God.

Jesus became a curse and had the sins of this world inflicted on him by the tongues of false witnesses who tortured and killed him and from the beginning God said,

you (Satan) shall bruise his heel. Gen.3:15

The truth is.

the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer. 1Pe.3:12, Psa.34:15

No. Peter needed to learn death is not to be feared,

For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 1Pe.2:21

Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 1Pe.4:1

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Rom.8:29

It's people who don't want to arm themselves with the mind of Christ, people who want to be made in the image Jesus is now (but not before), who devalue and dishonor our Saviors sacrifice.

Everything said above that is bolded is evidence to most that you really have no understanding of the word of God and or the works of Christ......

 

[dcontroversal]

Isaiah 53:4-6
Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted.
But He was wounded for our transgressions; He was crushed for our iniquities;
upon Him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with His stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned--every one--to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

this says "we esteemed Him stricken by God"
the question is, is this text saying we were correct in this, or were we wrong?

i am seeing a very direct connection between this and the question of whether God actually forsook Himself ((because Christ is also equally God)) on the cross.

when He sings the opening bar of Psalm 22 is He speaking of Himself or is He speaking as every one of us, whose iniquities He is laying upon Himself? if we are in Him and He takes our sin upon Himself, becoming sin for our sake, then isn't it by the very fact that He is glorified in this rather than abandoned by the Father, that we are preserved in Him, being given the gift of eternal life rather than the damnation we deserve?

if Christ is actually damned on the cross it seems to me that if i am in Him i suffer in Him the very same damnation. but if what "we esteemed" was wrong, and He is not stricken by God, then in Him i am forgiven - He bore my sin and this saves me because He, unlike me, cannot be forsaken by God - because He is in fact God and cannot deny Himself. to me, this is showing that He MUST be God; no one else could possibly bear my guilt and live.

i.e. the work of the cross is able to save if and only if Christ is God, and there is no salvation apart from Him; Yah and Yah alone is salvation

I agree, but we cannot deny the following truths...

a. He had emptied himself of GLORY and was hanging on the cross as the Son of man and the Son of God
b. He himself cried, My God My God why hast thou forsaken me <---I am confident he knew what he was talking about
c. Cursed is everyone that hangs on a cross

We cannot alleviate the fact that in that MOMENT JESUS viewed himself as forsaken by GOD and cries out to this fact.

 

[Journeyman]

2 Corinthians 5:21.

Mark 15:28

 

[Journeyman]

John 10:18 New King James Version (NKJV)
18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”


JOHN 19: NKJV

10 Then Pilate said to Him, “Are You not speaking to me? Do You not know that I have [c]power to crucify You, and power to release You?”

11 Jesus answered, “You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.”

Right Jesus being delivered to Pilate was sin. The Chief Priest and other religious leaders abused the authority God gave them. Jesus let Pilate know it was God who gave this Roman his authority and Pilate abused that authority also.

 

[Journeyman]

Even the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ is in debate nowadays.

Oy vey!

Dont even go there man. Thats the Gospel. If Jesus didnt die in our place, then thats game over. Put a fork in it! Its cooked!