John 5.4: Angel stirred up the pool - is it biblical?

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Blade

Active member
Nov 19, 2019
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#61
Forgive me but "How does this be biblical? " and yet you read it from? The bible... ok
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#62
You're adding error to confusion again, I see. Jesus is not an angel; Hebrews 1 and 2 make that truth abundantly clear.
I would think Jesus the Chief Apostle(sent one) did the will of the father as a prophet . What would disqualify the Son of man ,Jesus as one of the messengers of God called apostles?

Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

He spoke the word of God and not the will of the his own corrupted flesh he said it profits for zero.

The phrase "son of man" is used that way throughout the Bible to represent a messenger or called an angel .Same word as the German . "der bote" noun = courier ,herald, carrier, envoy, delivery boy, Balaam's Donkey .

The prophet Ezekiel is called “son of man” a phrase used as a messenger over 90 times.

You could say Jesus the Son of God was a better name than the others messengers as sons of God like Moses or Noah or Ezekiel that brought prophecy.

Jesus first born of the holy brethren saints he has a greater name "first born" . The veil is rent indicating the first born has appeared for the promised demonstration .The time of reformation has come. The last days we are in had began .In that way sola scriptura, the Bible is still doing its work of restoring the government of peace. the work of two working as one person .

Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my
Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Jesus the Son of man was introduced as His Son. the messenger apostle.

Clouds represent the unseen representation of God the unseen Lord.

His person is to do the will of the father not of his person of the flesh . (lust of the eye, lust of the flesh the pride builders). . .which he of his own flesh says it profits for nothing. Its the unseen word . His word is spirit, giving spirit life to quicken the soul . The power working in the Son of man. no power from the earthen body. We walk by faith the unseen Just as Jesus.

God is not a man . God is Spirit. God is light. God is Love (The trinity)


 
Mar 28, 2016
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#63
Anyone who says that is in serious trouble. Even Balaam's donkey would laugh at this absurdity.
Like Francis the talking mule or Mr. Ed.? ;)

He communicated the word of God "prophecy" as a messenger . Satan before the fall had that kind of power by the words God put on the lips of that Ass to restrain the madness of a false prophet (Balaam) Ssssss,,atan in the garden turning it into a lying power. Did God really say? look at me and live I lived through it. s s s s s . Why believe in things not seen. Who needs faith ?

Have you searched out the meaning of that parable. Why was it given? How does it support the gospel?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#64
Balaam's Ass was an Angel then?
You miss that in Numbers. The Angel of the Lord.
You'll believe what you want to about Angels. Angels are sent from God. Jesus was not an Angel. The only sect that believes that are Jehovah Witnesses.
You're a Jehovah Witness when you claim Jesus was an Angel. Because for Jesus to have been an Angel, that means Jesus Emmanuel was not God.(with us)
Yes God with us working in us to both will and do His good pleasure. We are to beleive without murmuring. He makes that burden lighter humbling our new spirit .

No I am not from that kind of persuasion. They have the blood issue thing turned upside down, they make the metaphor blood as if it was the source of power. The life of the flesh is in the blood but the life is not of these earthen bodies .The life is spirit life. A body without a spirit is dead .It cannot perform anything. It returns the field of clay from what it formed from and the temporal spirit returns to the Father of spirit life.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,319
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#65
Like Francis the talking mule or Mr. Ed.? ;)

He communicated the word of God "prophecy" as a messenger . Satan before the fall had that kind of power by the words God put on the lips of that Ass to restrain the madness of a false prophet (Balaam) Ssssss,,atan in the garden turning it into a lying power. Did God really say? look at me and live I lived through it. s s s s s . Why believe in things not seen. Who needs faith ?

Have you searched out the meaning of that parable. Why was it given? How does it support the gospel?
Maybe I'm just too full of Body Armour Berry Lemonade and that's why I don't get what you're saying in that second part after your injection of TV talking animals.
Are you claiming there that the Angel that spoke to Balaam was Satan?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#66
I would think Jesus the Chief Apostle(sent one) did the will of the father as a prophet . What would disqualify the Son of man ,Jesus as one of the messengers of God called apostles?
Jesus is not an angel. Jesus is God.

Clouds represent the unseen representation of God the unseen Lord.
Where is that in Scripture?


God is not a man . God is Spirit. God is light. God is Love (The trinity)
No; the Trinity is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Look it up in any Christian theology text.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
15,409
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#67
Like Francis the talking mule or Mr. Ed.? ;)

He communicated the word of God "prophecy" as a messenger . Satan before the fall had that kind of power by the words God put on the lips of that Ass to restrain the madness of a false prophet (Balaam) Ssssss,,atan in the garden turning it into a lying power. Did God really say? look at me and live I lived through it. s s s s s . Why believe in things not seen. Who needs faith ?

Have you searched out the meaning of that parable. Why was it given? How does it support the gospel?
It's not a parable.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#68
It's not a parable.

It would seem you have no idea what a parable is and what is the purpose of speaking them and not without not a peep

The Son of man the apostle Jesus. His whole life was a living parable revealed the unseen will of the father working in him together as one God

The formula below for rightly dividing the parables must be applied .It unravels the mysteries of God. The mysteries of His faith (the unseen) that work in these earthen bodies of death.(no faith coming from us)

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

It would seem you like the Apostles in Luke 9. They had no idea that parables as prophecy was needed to learn how to walk by faith the unseen gospel hid from natural man . It placed them in a place of wonderment confusion

After giving one in a series of many parables and purposely hiding the interpretation. They looked in wonderment at Jesus and in wondering must of thought he went off the deep end .And began the work of looking for the new greatest top dog. Would it be John James Peter?

Finishing the series of parables (many in that chapter) the lord rebuked them and informed them that they new not what "manner of spirit" they were of .Which is the spirit of the world (no faith) the wondering manner. And not according to the Spirit of Christ that did work in them .Again teaching them how to walk by faith .

When rightly dividing the parables we must ask ourselves. What manner of spirit are we of of? Are we following the commandment to rightly divide the word of God or literalize and lose the interpretation.?

Will we search it out? Or wonder and fall backward slain in the spirit and edify oneself?

Luke 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#69
It would seem you have no idea what a parable is and what is the purpose of speaking them and not without not a peep
Says the guy who didn't finish high school to the man who has an earned degree from a respected seminary.

smh...
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#70
Says the guy who didn't finish high school to the man who has an earned degree from a respected seminary.

smh...
With all due respect to your writing ability.

Fifth grade was the hardest three years of my life.

He teaches simply ones and few of the wise of this world. Saul the Christian murderer had all the privy credentials. Best teacher, a member of the Jewish tribe, had the right Hebrew tongue and had a great zeal... Sadly falsely as a serial killer .
This shows following the "law of the father" oral traditions of sinful men that served the pagan foundation. Shown with Cain and Abel the first recorded martyr, apostle. Cain to show the father of lies was a murderer from the beginning, its lie worked in Cain . . murdered his Brother the apostle Abel . Took him out to field and plowed him under. "Out of sight out of mind." no need for faith.

When Saul was converted, baptized by the hearing of faith .God closed his eyes to indicate he was spiritually blind and deaf.

Paul became the number one on the wanted to bury out of sight out of mind list...Paganism . They with the law of men called fathers made a attempt at making the law of God ( sola scriptura)to no effect calling it heresy . And their law of men the higher authority calling it Devine. But they could prove nothing.

Paul coming out from under that kind of influence of the earthly religious fathers. Gave glory to our unseen father in heaven.

They gave self edifying glory to each other, comparing themselves to themselves by their self.. Paying no mind to the law of God our Father in heaven ignoring the loving commandment not to call any man on earth father. . one is our unseen Father in heaven. This showed they had no faith needed to hear God. The kind of froward nation that God will prove as false on the last day.

Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

The evidence .

What's the verdict?

Acts 22:1-5 King James Version (KJV) Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.(And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner :devilish:of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day. And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.

Acts 24:5-6 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law.

Acts 24:5-613-14 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: (sola scriptura. )

They worshipped the fathers seen, the temporal And not the unseen Father .No man can serve two teaching Masters.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#71
With all due respect to your writing ability.

Fifth grade was the hardest three years of my life.

He teaches simply ones and few of the wise of this world. Saul the Christian murderer had all the privy credentials. Best teacher, a member of the Jewish tribe, had the right Hebrew tongue and had a great zeal... Sadly falsely as a serial killer .
This shows following the "law of the father" oral traditions of sinful men that served the pagan foundation. Shown with Cain and Abel the first recorded martyr, apostle. Cain to show the father of lies was a murderer from the beginning, its lie worked in Cain . . murdered his Brother the apostle Abel . Took him out to field and plowed him under. "Out of sight out of mind." no need for faith.

When Saul was converted, baptized by the hearing of faith .God closed his eyes to indicate he was spiritually blind and deaf.

Paul became the number one on the wanted to bury out of sight out of mind list...Paganism . They with the law of men called fathers made a attempt at making the law of God ( sola scriptura)to no effect calling it heresy . And their law of men the higher authority calling it Devine. But they could prove nothing.

Paul coming out from under that kind of influence of the earthly religious fathers. Gave glory to our unseen father in heaven.

They gave self edifying glory to each other, comparing themselves to themselves by their self.. Paying no mind to the law of God our Father in heaven ignoring the loving commandment not to call any man on earth father. . one is our unseen Father in heaven. This showed they had no faith needed to hear God. The kind of froward nation that God will prove as false on the last day.

Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

The evidence .

What's the verdict?

Acts 22:1-5 King James Version (KJV) Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.(And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner:devilish:of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day. And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.

Acts 24:5-6 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law.

Acts 24:5-613-14 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: (sola scriptura. )

They worshipped the fathers seen, the temporal And not the unseen Father .No man can serve two teaching Masters.
Garee, you are right in one aspect: being educated doesn't necessarily mean that I have correct understanding of Scripture. However, it is wrong to assume that I don't because I'm educated, or that you do because you aren't. How about you just don't make assumptions at all regarding what I know and don't know.

I do happen to know what a parable is. You don't think I do, because your self-made concept is different than my widely-accepted concept. That's the real problem: you have made up your own meanings and concepts for many scriptural (and non-scriptural) terms, but you're the only one who holds them, and yet you argue as though your ideas are the right ones! That's called pride.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
12,858
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#72
That's the real problem: you have made up your own meanings and concepts for many scriptural (and non-scriptural) terms,
This is very true, and very dangerous. Everything cannot be parabolic.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#73
Garee, you are right in one aspect: being educated doesn't necessarily mean that I have correct understanding of Scripture. However, it is wrong to assume that I don't because I'm educated, or that you do because you aren't. How about you just don't make assumptions at all regarding what I know and don't know.

I do happen to know what a parable is. You don't think I do, because your self-made concept is different than my widely-accepted concept. That's the real problem: you have made up your own meanings and concepts for many scriptural (and non-scriptural) terms, but you're the only one who holds them, and yet you argue as though your ideas are the right ones! That's called pride.
I am not bragging of not having a better education. Saul was very proud serving the out of sight of of mind foundation . Paul became humble. Do you think as Paul saw parables differently after his conversion ?

How did he rightly divide the parables in order to find the hidden understanding?

Nothing proves nothing. You are still trying to prove that tongues is not prophecy. That kind of idea seems to follow with parables.

If I am making up stuff as you say you should be able to show why you disagree. Not just that's not a parable.

Does it have to say this is a parable?

Its like the parable in a series in Luke 16 .No man can serve two teaching masters .Many glean some sort of teaching that life goes on for unbelievers after we die. What is the gospel meaning of that parable?

Without parables the signified language of God Christ spoke not .
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#74
This is very true, and very dangerous. Everything cannot be parabolic.
I am not saying everything is.

What portion is not signified and does not need to apply the 20/20 prescription below? Parables teach us how to walk by faith .

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

How would that prescription above effect your understanding of earthly Jerusalem and the Jews ?

Jesus says without parable Christ the Holy Spirt spoke not. Its a good place to start in Genesis .The temporal things seen.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#75
I am not bragging of not having a better education. Saul was very proud serving the out of sight of of mind foundation . Paul became humble. Do you think as Paul saw parables differently after his conversion ?
God used Paul extensively after his conversion, and Paul was very useful because he had knowledge and understanding. Jesus taught Paul directly, giving him "gospel understanding" of the Old Testament. By the way, I'm sure Jesus didn't teach Paul in parables.

Education is not the "be all and end all"; a person can be taught by the Holy Spirit and therefore have great understanding. However, it is unknown that a person is only taught by the Holy Spirit and has right understanding of all things. Thinking that you have right understanding of things and not having right understanding is foolish and dangerous.

Nothing proves nothing. You are still trying to prove that tongues is not prophecy. That kind of idea seems to follow with parables.
This thread is not about tongues, and I won't discuss that topic here.

If I am making up stuff as you say you should be able to show why you disagree. Not just that's not a parable.
Is it insufficient to say that it's not a parable? How about you give us your definition of a parable.

Does it have to say this is a parable?
No, but when you call something a parable that is not a parable, you corrupt the plain meaning.

Its like the parable in a series in Luke 16 .No man can serve two teaching masters .Many glean some sort of teaching that life goes on for unbelievers after we die. What is the gospel meaning of that parable?
None of the parables in Luke 16 say, "You can't serve two teaching masters." Jesus was teaching that you can't serve both God and money.

Without parables the signified language of God Christ spoke not .
You keep taking that statement out of its context, and twisting its meaning. Jesus said plenty that was not in parables.

Read Mark 4 and you will see the core of the issue: in verse 11, Jesus says to His disciples, "To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables."

Who is given the parables? Those outside the kingdom! Why? See verse 12: "So that while seeing, they may not perceive, and while hearing, they may hear and not understand! Parables are not given so that we can understand how to walk by faith! Rather, they are given so that the unbelieving may not understand what Jesus is saying! The plain text is for us to learn how to walk by faith.

If the parables are for you, then you declare yourself an unbeliever!
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#76
Dino wrote..God used Paul extensively after his conversion, and Paul was very useful because he had knowledge and understanding. Jesus taught Paul directly, giving him "gospel understanding" of the Old Testament. By the way, I'm sure Jesus didn't teach Paul in parables.
Really.? Without parables and the unseen understanding of faith given to the apostles he spoke not. But to Paul no parables were given as the understanding faith. If not. . . what worked in Saul/Paul ?. How did that happen.? How did he hear the gospel and beleive

His conversion is given as a parable. I will offer my understanding of the parable then you can offer yours.

Others saw the light and were filled with wonderment (No faith) .Paul was given the faith that came by hearing God not seen.. He led by the Spirit of Christ that dwelt in him followed the procedure for rightly dividing the parables, mixing faith the unseen eternal voice with the things seen the light the temporal.

Acts 22: 6 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me. And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest. And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.

The meaning of the parable was hid. They saw a form of a parable by seeing the light the temporal but no spiritual understanding was given the eternal . They did not see Jesus .

The tool for rightly dividing the parables (prophecy) must be used or no faith id given by which we can understand.
Without parable Christ spoke not.

You it would seem need to use the proper interpreting tools or they remain parables mysteries without understanding (faithless)

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

None of the parables in Luke 16 say, "You can't serve two teaching masters." Jesus was teaching that you can't serve both God and money.
Its the gist of the whole series of parables . Don't seek as after necromancy "dead saints" as workers with familiar spirits as a good teaching master. Rather then the true that is to be sought after being moved from within . "All things written in the law and prophets" (sola scriptura?)

The Rich man did not understand the parable it was a hard saying. One that offends the faith .To the Rich man it remained a mystery, a wonder, a purgatory ??? .

Trying to make it to no effect by looking a literal money what the eyes see just takes away the gospel understanding and gives it to those who literalize the parable . . not mixing the unseen law of faith with that seen the temporal . Then it becomes a parable as a wonder. . a light shining without seeing Jesus, no gospel understanding.