Kenneth Hagin and the prosperity gospel

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#241
#241
Ariel82 said:
Okay this, this would be evidence that Joel Osteen is preaching a false prosperity gospel by misapplying scriptures to people's personal life....



Took me less than 5 minutes to find.

If someone asked me if I liked Joel Osteen as a teacher?

I would say no. He has a false understanding of the Bible.

If someone asked me if he was saved and a Christian?

I would say, it's not my place to judge another's salvation, but he is walking down the wrong road by teaching the false prosperity gospel.
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I know I am late sorry, Took a few days off.. needed a break..lol

Why do people call this a gospel? It is not a gospel (way to heaven) it is a doctrine (Spiritual truth) they believe and teach.

That confuses some people.. And I think is part of th eproblem with alot of the so called "hyper" arguments we have had the past year..
 
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BeyondET

Guest
#242
#242
wolfwint said:
The scripture is clear in this! It is not our mind ore interpretation. Woman should not teach and preach (what is teaching) in the church. You can find the scripture in
1.Timothy 2, 12-14
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

and 1. Cor. 14,33-35
 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be submissive, as also says the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is shameful for women to speak in the church.

Many denominations and churches just ignoring the word of God and justice it with the ability that a woman can preach and teach. And can do it sometimes better than man.





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Deborah was quite the leader of men,
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#244
Nov 22, 2015
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#244
If women teachers that teach in congregations that have men in them are viewed by some as "being in error" and against the word of God - is it also in their eyes called being in "heresy" too?

What say ye? ( or for the Texans - ya'll )
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#245
#245
eternally-gratefull said:

I know I am late sorry, Took a few days off.. needed a break..lol

Why do people call this a gospel? It is not a gospel (way to heaven) it is a doctrine (Spiritual truth) they believe and teach.

That confuses some people.. And I think is part of th eproblem with alot of the so called "hyper" arguments we have had the past year..
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Because they use that word

The Bible warns against false gospels....so I don't really see the need to NOT use the word, but I see your point of distinction you are trying to make.
 
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BeyondET

Guest
#247
#247
wolfwint said:
What has Deborah to do with the NT church?
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Well what's your thoughts on how Jesus treated women,

do you think God placed a woman in charge of the Israelites all the women and men, then later in the NT he said sit down woman and listen to your man don't speak ask your husband at home.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#248
#248
Ariel82 said:
Because they use that word

The Bible warns against false gospels....so I don't really see the need to NOT use the word, but I see your point of distinction you are trying to make.
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I see, I did not know they used it, thanks, that clears things up.

I do not know their gospel. It is like the hyper thing,, I see the gospel he teaches, and do not disagree,, I just hate all the prosperity doctrines they hold to.

God never promised health or wealth here on earth. If you have wealth and are healthy, You are blessed, and probably part of the few in the church.. It has prety much always been that way.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#249
#249
1. Cor. 14,33-35
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be submissive, as also says the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is shameful for women to speak in the church.

*****

Looking at the verses in context, Paul is talking to and about women who ask a bunch of questions or yell at their husband in church, not about whether women can teach God's word or preach the gospel. (since we have biblical examples of doing just that)

I have read arguments in both sides.

The verses of 1 Timothy 2 is sandwiched between wear veils to show that you are married to bearing children if you are godly and humble...how can people take that out of context and make it about women preaching or teaching in church...when in the next chapter Paul endorses deaconess who have the same spiritual authority over the congregation as deacons.

People deny that women can be "bishops" because of the phrase "husband of one wife", yet Paul uses that for deacons too but we are shown God allows deaconess.

I still wonder what exactly are the duties of a Bishop and a deacon/deaconess?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#250
#250
Ariel82 said:
1. Cor. 14,33-35
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be submissive, as also says the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is shameful for women to speak in the church.

*****

Looking at the verses in context, Paul is talking to and about women who ask a bunch of questions or tell at their husband in church, not about whether women can teach God's word or preach the gospel.

I have read arguments in both sides.

The verses of 1 Timothy 2 is sandwiched between wear veils to show that you are married to bearing children of you are godly and humble...how can people take that out of context and make it about women preaching or teaching in church...when in the next chapter Paul endorses deaconess who have the same spiritual authority over the congregation as deacons.

People deny that women can be "bishops" because of the phrase "husband of one wife", yet Paul uses that for deacons too but we are shown God allows deaconess.

I still wonder what exactly are the duties of a Bishop and a deacon/deaconess?
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I believe a bishop or deacon/deaconess is an overseer. They gaurd and oversee the flock.. and hopefully oversee and guard the Sheppard (pastor)
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#251
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#251
Ariel82 said:
1. Cor. 14,33-35
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be submissive, as also says the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is shameful for women to speak in the church.

*****

Looking at the verses in context, Paul is talking to and about women who ask a bunch of questions or yell at their husband in church, not about whether women can teach God's word or preach the gospel. (since we have biblical examples of doing just that)

I have read arguments in both sides.

The verses of 1 Timothy 2 is sandwiched between wear veils to show that you are married to bearing children if you are godly and humble...how can people take that out of context and make it about women preaching or teaching in church...when in the next chapter Paul endorses deaconess who have the same spiritual authority over the congregation as deacons.

People deny that women can be "bishops" because of the phrase "husband of one wife", yet Paul uses that for deacons too but we are shown God allows deaconess.

I still wonder what exactly are the duties of a Bishop and a deacon/deaconess?
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Bishop teaches, deacon is helping to poor ones, widows etc.

Therefore, bishop has an authority, deacon is more a practical help, charity position.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#252
#252
trofimus said:
Bishop teaches, deacon is helping to poor ones, widows etc.

Therefore, bishop has an authority, deacon is more a practical help, charity position.
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How do you know the Bishop teaches?

I am not trying to,be difficult but I have been search the,Bible and I can't find it.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#253
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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#253
Ariel82 said:
How do you know the Bishop teaches?

I am not trying to,be difficult but I have been search the,Bible and I can't find it.
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From the history and practice of the first church.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop

Deacon originally means somebody who waited on tables. So his rather practical role is quite obvious.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#254
#254
Also 1 Co 14 is about order in the church. Not women teaching at all but how they should learn, instead of shout out questions and make services chaos.

The women told not to speak are the ones that need to learn.

Most churches will let women speak words of prophecy, teatimonies, etc.

So why link that with 1 Timothy 2 to make a false doctrine about how women can't teach men anything about scripture?

Because when you break it down, that is the main reason people say women can't be preachers or pastors..,she might "teach" a man and that is against what taking ,those two verses out of context does.

I always thought a Bishop was an oversee of a large group of churches, like the Apostles did?

At least that is what the office of modern day Bishops do.

So i am confused because of all the different ways churches are organised today.

I know some churches don't allow deaconess, even though it's in the Bible.
 
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BeyondET

Guest
#256
#256
To "rule" or To "bear" is the question.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#257
Aug 17, 2015
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#257
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Ariel82

Guest
#258
#258
The Presbyter is the second (of three) degree of the major orders of clergy in the Orthodox Church, below bishop and above deacon.

The word 'presbyter' is, in the Bible, a synonym for bishop (Gr: επίσκοπος - episkopos), referring to a leader in local Church congregations. However, since at least the second century, it has been understood as distinct from bishop and synonymous with priest. Its literal meaning in Greek (Gr: πρεσβύτερος - presbyteros) is "elder."


....

So does the Bible refer to what we call a Bishop today or a Priest/elder?
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#259
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
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#259
Grace777x70 said:
If women teachers that teach in congregations that have men in them are viewed by some as "being in error" and against the word of God - is it also in their eyes called being in "heresy" too?

What say ye? ( or for the Texans - ya'll )
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So, "if" these women teachers and leaders in the church are in fact in error and against the word of God - people "could" say that they are in "heresy".

Because of some having a different view on women and leadership truths in the church. - that means we are now free to do this below ( in some people's eyes ):

That means in some people's eyes that we can now publicly "expose" these heresies and castigate them. We can insult them and de-mean them. We can "go the Greek" to try to prove that these women teachers are "in heresy".

We can call them heretics and lovers of sinning. ( they must love sinning to go against the word of God about women and leadership ) and they are an example of having "itching ears" now just like Paul says they would have in the end times - drawing false teachers unto themselves.

In extreme cases this would mean we can put their pictures up with devil horns on them. Put their "wolf face" in a sheep's skin. We can create websites dedicated to these heretical "women teachers".

Such is the anatomy of us "heretic hunters" and heresy hunters that publically attack others that have a different view of some subjects. We do this even though we have no spiritual authority. Those in a leadership position in a local assembly only have that authority.

Think about it? What if every time a women teacher posts on here in CC - that means we can insult her and call her a heretic and in heresy. We can de-mean her and call her all sorts of names. We do all this in the name of "defending the truth and rightly dividing the word of truth".

Selah....

( and yes - there are times to stand up for the gospel of the grace of God which is all about Christ and what He has already done - that is different then biting and devouring each other over things like healing, women in leadership, tongues, whether God wants His children well - does God want us to have an abundance so that we can give to others...things of that nature. )
 
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trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#260
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#260
Ariel82 said:
The Presbyter is the second (of three) degree of the major orders of clergy in the Orthodox Church, below bishop and above deacon.

The word 'presbyter' is, in the Bible, a synonym for bishop (Gr: επίσκοπος - episkopos), referring to a leader in local Church congregations. However, since at least the second century, it has been understood as distinct from bishop and synonymous with priest. Its literal meaning in Greek (Gr: πρεσβύτερος - presbyteros) is "elder."


....

So does the Bible refer to what we call a Bishop today or a Priest/elder?
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Not sure what you mean by your question, but Presbyteros got shortened to Presb, Presb to Prest and Prest to Priest. Thats the origin of the word "priest", I think.

The today´s position of the roman catholic priests, for example, is not biblical, though. They made them something like the OT Levitical priests.
 
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