Kenneth Hagin and the prosperity gospel

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A

Ariel82

Guest
#101
#101
bluto said:
Wait a minute here ariel? I fully realize that this thread is about the wof prosperity gospel and what hagin wrote in his book the "Midas Touch," condemming the likes of copeland and others? HOWEVER, should we not take into consideration all of the other hertical teachings of these men and women? Jesus going to hell, faith filled words, Jesus dying spiritually, being little gods and many other anti-Biblical teachings? Enlighten me? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Click to expand...
Don't have enough time in the day to address all that.

Simple person.
.I just want to hear what Kenneth Hagin teaches and see what I agree and disagree with him about and bring bible verses and logic to show why.

Pulling in the teachings of other teachers confuses the issues because Hagin may or not have believed those teachings.
 
AllenW

AllenW

Senior Member
#102
Apr 20, 2016
1,450
70
48
#102
Ariel82 said:
I don't say, the internet says. Trying to find transcript but couldn't.

Did locate this:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...TxPJafysRPvtZ3oBw&sig2=IpQdwU0kB9ptP3EbnBCISg

Doesn't really make me want to hear his other sermons.
Click to expand...
I haven't finished reading yet, but I have something to say.
Kenneth Hagen said something here that is still being said today in WoF churches.
"If you are not being healed, then it's because you lack faith".
That's a scary thought.
It puts doubt on your whole relationship with Jesus.
You could start questioning "Am I really saved"? etc...
How does a Christian who is now doubting his relationship with God somehow force more faith into their lives so they can receive healing?
One way is to send and "we will pray for you. Look at us. God obviously hears our prayers."
So the person sends more money and is trapped in a life of defeat.
This was going on with Kenneth Hagen and goes on today.
But when has Joel Osteen ever asked for money and in return promised you propersity?
 
FranC

FranC

Banned
#103
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
#103
Locutus said:
What's a WOF?

Here we go a woffling, a woffling - sounds like a Christmas tune...:p
Click to expand...
Word of Faith.
It's a movement.
It claims that you "speak the word" and God will bring it to fruition.
Christians can "claim" good health and prosperity.
IF they have the right amount of faith...

Those who don't are just not in the loop.
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#104
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#104
It seems some have forgotten the Word:

1Cor 5:6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough?7Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 8Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

When we witness true leaven in a person, we cannot trust their teachings, for that leaven is strewn throughout their life.
[video=youtube;DOxcP-byUvE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOxcP-byUvE[/video]

That leaven will keep coming out in everything they do.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#105
#105
"The soul of man is not born again, the spirit of man is what is born again. It is a process to save the soul." Minute 60,56
 
FranC

FranC

Banned
#106
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
#106
Ariel82 said:
Matthew 5:23 ►
New International Version
"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you,
leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.

***

Yeah it still bugs me..

Sorry folks, gonna need to pray more.


I really dislike being falsely accused and I need to ask God how to handle it.

What do you do when someone posts in your thread mainly to call you a liar?
Click to expand...
Ignore them.
If someone actually called you a liar, they're not worth your time.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#107
#107
AllenW said:
I haven't finished reading yet, but I have something to say.
Kenneth Hagen said something here that is still being said today in WoF churches.
"If you are not being healed, then it's because you lack faith".
That's a scary thought.
It puts doubt on your whole relationship with Jesus.
You could start questioning "Am I really saved"? etc...
How does a Christian who is now doubting his relationship with God somehow force more faith into their lives so they can receive healing?
One way is to send and "we will pray for you. Look at us. God obviously hears our prayers."
So the person sends more money and is trapped in a life of defeat.
This was going on with Kenneth Hagen and goes on today.
But when has Joel Osteen ever asked for money and in return promised you propersity?
Click to expand...
So you are against the teaching of "seed" money and paying for prayers of healing?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#109
#109
Oh no, not another video.,,will have to shelf it for another day.

Please don't think I am ignoring you post Stephen, it's just a lot and i need some refreshing praise music and bible reading.

Too much questionable teachings give me a headache and a heartache..,
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#110
Jul 24, 2016
7,481
3,521
113
#110
Wof encourages it's believers to look upon the rich successful people as being good people right with God.. The richer a person is the more righteous they are...

Wof encourages it's believers to look upon poor people as being evil people who are being cursed by God because they are far from God..

Wof encourages contempt for those who are suffering in this world.. Because their basic belief is the more you are blessed by God with material, health, and social gain the better Christian you are... So in the WOF mindset billionaires like George Soros must be almost perfect Saints.. While a starving baby in Ethiopia must be the most evil being on planet earth...

1 Timothy 6: KJV
4 "He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, {5} Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. {6} But godliness with contentment is great gain. {7} For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. {8} And having food and raiment let us be therewith content."
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#111
#111
Grace777x70 said:

What is mis-leading is saying things should be called lies when the things have not been looked at yet in their context. We need to listen to more things people say about a subject then just take one aspect of it and call it a lie without knowing the other parts to it yet. That's what I am commenting on.

Questions are good as they help to get a clearer picture of what is really being said. Once the clear picture is seen and not mis-represented - then people are either free or not free to agree with it.
Click to expand...
Yeah but we can say..wait,is this what you are saying? If it is, it's a lie, if it isnt, please continue..,,
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#112
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#112
FranC said:
Word of Faith.
It's a movement.
It claims that you "speak the word" and God will bring it to fruition.
Christians can "claim" good health and prosperity.
IF they have the right amount of faith...

Those who don't are just not in the loop.
Click to expand...

I don't believe in this "faith it in" concept the way it is sometimes taught. I believe faith is the positive response of what grace has already provided in Christ - not something we try to make appear from our own minds and wills.

I have seen people have 'faith in their confession" but that is having faith in what we are doing and not on Christ's work.

For example. The scriptures say I am the Lord that heals you of all your diseases" Ps. 103. Or some believe that 2 Peter is talking about physical healing as well as all types of healing "By His stripes we were healed."

One person goes around "confessing "By His stripes I was healed." He thinks if he confesses it enough times - it will come about. His faith is in his ability to confess and he will have what he says because of what he is doing.

Another person says the same thing "By His stripes I was healed" and they are saying it because they believe it to be true. This person ahs their faith in what Christ has already done - not on their own work of "confessing to get it".

Outwardly they look the same but the substance behind it are 2 different things entirely.
 
M

MadebyHim

Senior Member
#113
Dec 17, 2016
572
15
0
#113
As they sit in comfy life-style, eating the steak, and drinking the wine, while the poor old soul sits at home eating bread and coffee pudding. Yes God does prosper us and one of His promises is when we seek the Kingdom of God above everything, He will give us what we need. God doesn't say give that man behind pulpit your last 10 dollars then you will get your money made bigger.

Of course when a person gives with a good feeling, and not feeling that they must, they will be blessed. God loves a cheerful giver, and when we give we receive, but it doesn't always come as a material wealth, a spiritual wealth keeps a person happy without money. If someone gives because they feel they need to to get, then that person is always looking at what they didn't get instead of what they did get.
 
AllenW

AllenW

Senior Member
#114
Apr 20, 2016
1,450
70
48
#114
AllenW said:
I haven't finished reading yet, but I have something to say.
Kenneth Hagen said something here that is still being said today in WoF churches.
"If you are not being healed, then it's because you lack faith".
That's a scary thought.
It puts doubt on your whole relationship with Jesus.
You could start questioning "Am I really saved"? etc...
How does a Christian who is now doubting his relationship with God somehow force more faith into their lives so they can receive healing?
One way is to send and "we will pray for you. Look at us. God obviously hears our prayers."
So the person sends more money and is trapped in a life of defeat.
This was going on with Kenneth Hagen and goes on today.
But when has Joel Osteen ever asked for money and in return promised you propersity?
Click to expand...
Do you know how many people have prayed for me for all my problems over the years?
I guess I'm still alive and out of debt and praising God.
So I guess someone's prayers were answered.
And I just survived an emergency AAA aneurysm surgery that most people die instantly from.
Even the surgeon called it a miracle.
But I just can't line up what's been happening with me with the way it is preached on TV and all these WoF preachers.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#115
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#115
Adstar said:
Wof encourages it's believers to look upon the rich successful people as being good people right with God.. The richer a person is the more righteous they are...

Wof encourages it's believers to look upon poor people as being evil people who are being cursed by God because they are far from God..

Wof encourages contempt for those who are suffering in this world.. Because their basic belief is the more you are blessed by God with material, health, and social gain the better Christian you are... So in the WOF mindset billionaires like George Soros must be almost perfect Saints.. While a starving baby in Ethiopia must be the most evil being on planet earth...

1 Timothy 6: KJV
4 "He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, {5} Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. {6} But godliness with contentment is great gain. {7} For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. {8} And having food and raiment let us be therewith content."
Click to expand...
I agree...I have seen this extreme view from some of the so-called prosperity type teachers. I believe in prosperity but God's way and through Christ alone.

The other side to this coin is that even poor people can be in the same boat and be covetous so the riches themselves are not the problem. It's where is our trust? Is in in things or in Christ alone?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#116
#116
Grace777x70 said:
Here is one from Hagin that talks about being led by the Holy Spirit in our every day lives. IMO - There are many good things for us to learn from this.

[video=youtube;C1fJhsRWP2s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1fJhsRWP2s[/video]
Click to expand...
Min 67v32

Wait what does he mean many people have missed healing because of not listening to the Spirit of God?
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#117
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#117
Ariel82 said:
Yeah but we can say..wait,is this what you are saying? If it is, it's a lie, if it isnt, please continue..,,
Click to expand...

I agree in theory....:)

The issue is that a lie is something done intentionally whereas we could say things this way - to expand on this or to look at the other aspect to do with a certain truth.

A lie makes it look intentional and thus calls into question the character of the person speaking whoever they are without looking at all things said in context.
 
FranC

FranC

Banned
#118
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
#118
Ariel82 said:
The Bible says the "curse of the law" which I believe means trying to please God by our own obedience instead of faith.

Hagan says the curse of the law is physical illness.(he goes back to deuteronomy as his proof text.)

Also he claims that death causes sin when the bible shows that it is sin that causes death.
Click to expand...
Ariel

Reading along. I don't know Hagin.

I'm just wondering if he means that spiritual death causes us to sin?

We are born spiritually dead and thus are more prone to our sin nature.

The Law brought death because now we are Aware of our sin.
We are dead if we remain in the Law, but are alive in Christ --- or the spirit of God. He is the spark which gives us life.

Just thinking out loud...
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#119
#119
Alright Grace777, that sermon seemed alright.

Still need to do some research on scriptures and the words, but he didn't teach too many off the wall notions in that one.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#120
#120
Grace777x70 said:
I agree in theory....:)

The issue is that a lie is something done intentionally whereas we could say things this way - to expand on this or to look at the other aspect to do with a certain truth.

A lie makes it look intentional and thus calls into question the character of the person speaking whoever they are without looking at all things said in context.
Click to expand...
I guess for me there is a difference between saying "you are believing a lie" and telling someone "you are a liar"

One points out that our thoughts may not be correct. The other accuses us of intentionally lying to others.

Some would claim if you speak a lie then that makes you a liar, but I would protest that God looks at our innermost hearts.

Do we speak a lie because we have been deceived or because we know it's a lie and seek to deceive others?

The first can be helped by praying and speaking the truth to them.

The second would be accurately labeled a liar and can only helped by God and His convictions.

So for me I have to pray: do I believe this person is a liar or do I believe they have been deceived by a lie?

Then follow as i believe God would have me walk.
 
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