Kenneth Hagin and the prosperity gospel

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Apr 30, 2016
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Personally I believe that some modern day evangelical beliefs are all mis-representing the Father and the work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

On one end of the same tree we have those that say being in poverty is God making us humble - then we have those that say God makes us sick to teach us things or the equally abhorrent belief that God "allows" it so He can be glorified.

That is like saying a parent "allows" someone to bring a disease on purpose on their child so that the parent can be seen by others "how good they are". That is a "sick parent" and a "sick god".

We would throw people in jail for such behavior. And yet - we somehow have more righteous moral beliefs then God does. Where do we even get this moral outrage from? - God of course - and yet we ascribe this horrible attribute to our loving Father.

I firmly believe that we are going to be horrified of the thoughts we had towards our good, loving Father when we stand before Him and see Him for who He truly is. He will wipe every one of our tears away with His loving hands.

Then we have those on the other side of the tree that say "God wants us to all be millionaires and have the biggest house in the city - live the American dream".

God says that He delights in the prosperity of His children and how He chooses to display that prosperity is up to Him. God's definition of being "rich" is an abundance to take care of things in our family with plenty left over to abound to every good work to be a blessing to others. It's the way of the kingdom of God. There is never any lack.

The term "rich" means "full supply".

Then there are those that condemn people that are sick and we can be like Job's buddies and accuse them of all kinds of nonsense. We need to have compassion on those that are sick in this world and walk with them with the faith that they do have - not to beat them up for not getting things the way that we think it should manifest in their lives and in what timing.

The truth is some of us don't have the faith to bring what grace has already provided for us in Christ. There are many areas that I simply don't have the faith for now in my life. I recognize it for what it is and I don't blame others because they do have faith in that area that I don't.

There is a way to encourage others to believe God without condemning them or believing they are condemning us just because they are speaking the truth. There are 2 sides to that tree too.

The real truth is - faith or the lack of faith was talked about by Jesus many times where He said they had little faith. Is Jesus now attacking the emotions of those that don't have faith? Or is He simply showing where their lack is and knowing this deficiency can make them pursue Him as He is the truth.

Some of us modern day believers would be ripping the Lord Jesus apart for His talks to people both corporately and individuals on having no and little faith.

We are to encourage each other in where ever we are at and not bite and devour each other because we believe differently on a subject. None of us know things as we ought to know them says Paul - but let's stop this biting and devouring each other and walk in where each of us are at now in our own walk with the Lord.

Speak of the love and grace of our Lord and the nutrients we need will be brought to us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ. We are to fix our hope completely on the grace that comes with the hearing and seeing of Jesus. 1 Peter 1:13

These 2 principles remain true for all of us.

Romans 14:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.


Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
Hi Grace
I was happily reading your post till I got to paragraph 10. Then I got a bit confused.

So are you saying that, yes, some don't have enough faith to be healed?
 

MadebyHim

Senior Member
Dec 17, 2016
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not bragging but i'm debt free, owing no man nothing but to love them, and it didn't come by handing money over to a prosperity preacher. They did have a work in building faith to believe in God's prosperity. But i came to believe as shown by God, that obedience is what God rewards. In obedience seek first the Kingdom of God.
 
Dec 2, 2016
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Hi Angela: A question. Do you believe that healing from God is something that seldom happens, or do you believe that a healing from God is something that never happens? I can't imagine Christians who would shame a person for not being healed because according to James it is the ones who are praying for the sick person whose faith is on the line to produce a healing. You should have told your friends to exercise faith when they prayed for you so that you could be healed.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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Oh no, not another video.,,will have to shelf it for another day.

Please don't think I am ignoring you post Stephen, it's just a lot and i need some refreshing praise music and bible reading.

Too much questionable teachings give me a headache and a heartache..,
Yeah, whatevvv.....
You get headaches from this stuff, yet you open the Op anyway?

Glutton for punishment, you are.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Thanks for the post, not a bad sermon on having strong faith.. Ken spoke on the woman who touch Jesus garment, the two blind men, the wealhy mans child, strong faith is important I think.. :)

Could have even touched on the ( while sitting under the fig tree) :)

[video=youtube;hP9rBDYYFvw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=hP9rBDYYFvw[/video]
Beyond et
Didn't hear the sermon...

But

What if I don't have such a strong faith?
Am I worth less than you?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
I am gonna start calling you my favorite heckler Stephen.

Can always count on you to insert a jab, every day I meet you.

Can you listen/watch 2 hours of anyone preach without getting a headache?

Is it unreasonable to say...gonna watch that video later?
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Here is one from Hagin that talks about being led by the Holy Spirit in our every day lives. IMO - There are many good things for us to learn from this.

[video=youtube;C1fJhsRWP2s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1fJhsRWP2s[/video]
Grace

You're a mature Christian. You know how to filter.
What about a new Christian?
They could be misled and even start to doubt their faith.

Anyway, we can't stop preachers from saying what they want to say.
And in every lie , there's a little bit of truth.
 

AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
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No denomination needed. Logic and common sense and reading scriptures in context shows that apply those scriptures to people today is false and dishonest.

Let me finish this video and we can discuss more if you like.

You can tell me why you think it's true and I can tell you why I think the teaching is false.
What for?
We've both already made up our minds.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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i believe the office of prophet is no more, but the gift for today is a Bible teacher (for me it's my pastor, primarily).

i think it's a mistake to say not to go to your pastor for advice and Biblical counsel.

Jews ask for signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified...
Please, see my post #59.

I think there was a huge change in 1004 and it is even worse today. There are so many contradictory teachers and teachings that we must choose what we want to believe anyway.

There is no "one" church anymore and so there are no "church teachers" in a common sense like in the days of Paul...

Even though I respect some authorities in their field (Greek, Biology/Genesis etc) I do not think they require following like in the days of the first church.

The reality is that you must say "no" to the 99% of teachers today. Roman catholic ones, eastern orthodox ones and then you can continue according to your specific confession till you will get only few you are ready to "follow".
How about the early church fathers?
Those who came right after Jesus.
Do you trust them?
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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I agree...I have seen this extreme view from some of the so-called prosperity type teachers. I believe in prosperity but God's way and through Christ alone.

The other side to this coin is that even poor people can be in the same boat and be covetous so the riches themselves are not the problem. It's where is our trust? Is in in things or in Christ alone?
Yes a lot of poor people can be fixated on money how to get it because they have none..

A lot of rich people can be fixated on money how to keep it because they have so much..

It is best not to be rich or poor, To have enough to cover ones needs..
 

AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
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So you are against the teaching of "seed" money and paying for prayers of healing?
Yes, what else can I say?
Catholics have always done that to get them out of purgatory.
It's kept them in business all these years.
 

AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
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So I'm really having a problem with my spelling on the keyboard.
It gets worse as time goes on?
Is there a spiritual answer?
How much will it cost for a cure?
 
Apr 23, 2017
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Okay Allen

Another thread.

I refuse to hijack someone else's thread more than I already have but do want to hear what you believe.

I don't know the hearts of all the people who answer the altar call of Joel Osteen.

Some might truly be believers, but I have seen what the preaching of false prosperity gospel does.

I don't want a mud slinging match.

I want to examine their words and objectively through prayer see if it's true or false.

I posted one example of the false promises Joel Osteen posted on his website yesterday.

Will find and repost.

Have not researched Hagin and what he teaches, but a brief search says he started the prosperity gospel movement.

Any websites you would recommend?

This is a controversial subject and I doubt we will agree, but do you think we can have a civilized discussion or is this just a wasted thread?
The "prosperity gospel" is a false gospel. Did you ever wonder why the great false church mentioned in Revelation is called a whore? It's because she sells herself to the world for money, as well as her daughter churches, which are these very churches you see on TV selling this lie.

Jesus Christ taught humility, "go and sell all your possessions", and that is exactly what all the early assemblies did, sell everything, and keep only what they needed, and rented their homes. This is the mindset of a sojourner, for a sojourner travels light, until he reaches his destination. And even Jesus Christ laid an example, coming in the form of a servant, not even having a pillow to lay his head on, before he became exalted and was given all authority in heaven and on earth. The elect are called to imitate him in this manner of humility, that in due time, at the coming of Jesus Christ, the elect may become exalted as he was exalted. The first will be last, and the last will be first. Those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humbled themselves will be exalted.

I have a study on this here Humility and Sell All Your Possessions and Properties | Wisdom of God .
 
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BeyondET

Guest
Beyond et
Didn't hear the sermon...

But

What if I don't have such a strong faith?
Am I worth less than you?
It's quite ok, faith will bounce around from time to time while growing in faith, Peter had great faith stepping out on the water but one look at the storm and out the window that went, Jesus had to help him back into the boat. that says a lot about faith IMO,
is faith a gift?

I'm confident you know the answer to the worth.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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i believe the office of prophet is no more, but the gift for today is a Bible teacher (for me it's my pastor, primarily).

i think it's a mistake to say not to go to your pastor for advice and Biblical counsel.

Jews ask for signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified...
Minute 33 he says "you can take the Bible our of context and make it say anything you want it to say"

He was preaching on the inward spirit as the real person, but why doesn't he mention that the body is a temple to God? Why the stress only on the spirit and not the Whole person?

Jesus had a humanly body.

We are not just our spirits. God will give us resaurected bodies.

Will keep listening...
Ecc 3, calls out a false teacher "man is just an animal like a dog...old testament is written to dead people..progressive revelation....reading the old in light of the new....

You can know Greek and Hebrew and miss what God is saying....


Wait wait..animals do have "spirit" or the breath of life, it's says it in Genesis.

I agree they are not made in the image of God, but the Bible says they have spirit.
Minute 35.56
Ariel

Animals have a soul but not a spirit.
They don't have a spirit because it pertains to God and animals don't know about God.
 
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BeyondET

Guest
Ariel

Animals have a soul but not a spirit.
They don't have a spirit because it pertains to God and animals don't know about God.
How did you come to this conclusion about animals don't know about God? have you talked with them before?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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Acts 5:34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;
35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

I'm always reminded of this passage when folks set out to rebuke those they see as heretics.

Have you noticed that many of the mega-church ministries are struggling? If God is in it who can stand against it?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
So I'm really having a problem with my spelling on the keyboard.
It gets worse as time goes on?
Is there a spiritual answer?
How much will it cost for a cure?
One chocolate chip cookie....
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
What for?
We've both already made up our minds.
Because i want to see what you think he is saying and why you agree with him.

He says that God will beat down your enemies for you and lists poverty and ill health as "enemies"

Let me reread but pretty sure that is what he said in that post you said you didn't see anything wrong with.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Ariel

Animals have a soul but not a spirit.
They don't have a spirit because it pertains to God and animals don't know about God.
We need to do a word study before we can discuss it really in depth.