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The truth is some of us don't have the faith to bring what grace has already provided for us in Christ. There are many areas that I simply don't have the faith for now in my life. I recognize it for what it is and I don't blame others because they do have faith in that area that I don't.
I am saying that there are things I can see in Christ that He has provided that I don't have the faith to believe for yet. For example - some situations I find it hard to believe I have the peace of Christ because I am still focusing on what is happening in the natural.
I also said that I don't blame others when they encourage me that God will take care of that situation and let the peace of Christ rule you. In other words I don't insult others because they do have peace in a situation and I don't. I simply recognize where I am and look to the Lord for His understanding and life in the situation and sometimes that takes time and the re-newing of my mind.
I don't think that others think I am worth less or have no value nor do I think of it concerning myself. That's just the flesh in me acting up because I am comparing myself to another. Paul says it is unwise to compare ourselves amongst ourselves.
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In case anyone missed this, I want to show, via Scripture the errors of the false ideology, teachings and theories of WoF, and of Grace777x70, as he also promotes the same false teachings. My hope is the sheep will listen to what the Word says in light of his many deceptive errors and twisting of words to deceive:
"Some modern day evangelical beliefs are all misrepresenting?" We all know that whenever statements like these are made they are unfounded, need to be examined since there is no real corroboration to these claims and they remain unfounded. But the need is to have a diving platform, which you've created for your theory. So, the foundation is faulty to start,and I will go to show why that is below.
The more important thing here is to find out what Scripture says about this instead of the question begging and leading statements and theories that are unbiblical.
Note Proverbs 30:8 - Remove far from me falsehood and lying; give me neither poverty nor riches, feed me with the food that is needful for me, (Note the connection of falsehood and riches, and the desire to be content)
The opposite end of the spectrum, the question begging here, if you will, is that you believe the prosperity gospel to be of God and to be biblical, and in either case this is false. 1) The biblical side shows us that to desire to be rich is a snare, a trap and is not of God or the Gospel; 2) Of which snare prosperity gospel false teachers are leading others into, and, of which the Scriptures call covetouseness and of which they condemn. 3) And to top that off if any man is covetous, speaking to those within the church, what do the Scriptures say? The warning is quite solemn, quite stern.
Scriptures for each of the above:
1) 1 Timothy 6:2-10 -- Teach and urge these things. If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the soundwords of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. But godliness with contentment is great gain,for we brought nothing into the world, and[SUP]c[/SUP] we cannot take anything out of the world. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.
The above shows that without doubt preaching riches is not preaching the gospel. It warns solemnly against such, not only teachings, but teachers. It teaches us the true godliness that is content with what God has given, and the dangers of seeking to be rich. The twisting of words is what leads these teachers to deceive others. 2 Peter 2 also describes this same scenario. That is a false gospel message, and many are deceived by it. No need to put a spin on what "prosper" means when Scripture is clear, but that is what must be done and what will be done to deceive others as per this passage.
2) The above passage shows this is where these teachers lead others, into covetousness. Note 2 Peter 2:3 -- And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
Note: They will use false words, they will twist words, put a spin on words in order to deceive. Brothers and sisters, I do not need to remind you who began that false gospel, right? "Has God said"? or "Here is what that really means". And we see the spin put on words "prosper" and rich turned into "full supply" which spin is contrary to sound doctrine.
3) Concerning what Scripture warns about covetousness in the NT. 2 Corinthians 5:9-11 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."
Note that in the above text Paul, speaking of what the Spirit of God says, likens sexual immorality, and drunkenness on the same level as covetousness. Paul tells this church to expel this wicked man from them, this sexually immoral man. Yet, he would have also told them to expel any person who was covetous and greedy in the same manner since the sins are on the exact same level.
Con'td:
Note Ephesians 5:5 For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is an idolater) has no inheritance in the kingdom of God.
Note that stern warning. Paul warns we may be sure of this (that is, the end of those who are covetous). Covetousness, being taught and suggested by these teachers is well warned against in Scriptures. The Scriptures are clear. But what will happen to rescue this evil false gospel will be to twist the meanings of words as in the first false gospel, and to entice others with the idolatry of covetousness and dressing this false gospel up. It will allure many because it appeals to the flesh and Satan is using this scheme big time to deceive man, and they think that gain is godliness when it in fact is just the opposite.
I'll address one more thing here:
He did this with Job, and others, so let us all who are looking in be careful to not be deceived by human reason as above, but let's instead look to Scripture: Job 2:10 "But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?"
And in saying this God says through His Word, in what Job declared above "In all this Job did not sin with his lips". Why was it necessary for God to vindicate Job here? That he in fact did not sin in what he stated? Because it is clear that Job knew that even the calamity that he had was from God. Read the context, read chapter 1:1ff and see that this is true.
So, the testimony of Scripture is there. God was glorified, and this is not an "abhorrent belief" it is a pure, sound in doctrine Biblical belief. In calling this an "abhorrent belief" you are dead wrong sir and Scripture testifies against this. There is no need to go any further, Scripture is clear for all those who have ears to hear.
God bless all His.
"Some modern day evangelical beliefs are all misrepresenting?" We all know that whenever statements like these are made they are unfounded, need to be examined since there is no real corroboration to these claims and they remain unfounded. But the need is to have a diving platform, which you've created for your theory. So, the foundation is faulty to start,and I will go to show why that is below.
The more important thing here is to find out what Scripture says about this instead of the question begging and leading statements and theories that are unbiblical.
Note Proverbs 30:8 - Remove far from me falsehood and lying; give me neither poverty nor riches, feed me with the food that is needful for me, (Note the connection of falsehood and riches, and the desire to be content)
The opposite end of the spectrum, the question begging here, if you will, is that you believe the prosperity gospel to be of God and to be biblical, and in either case this is false. 1) The biblical side shows us that to desire to be rich is a snare, a trap and is not of God or the Gospel; 2) Of which snare prosperity gospel false teachers are leading others into, and, of which the Scriptures call covetouseness and of which they condemn. 3) And to top that off if any man is covetous, speaking to those within the church, what do the Scriptures say? The warning is quite solemn, quite stern.
Scriptures for each of the above:
1) 1 Timothy 6:2-10 -- Teach and urge these things. If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the soundwords of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. But godliness with contentment is great gain,for we brought nothing into the world, and[SUP]c[/SUP] we cannot take anything out of the world. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.
The above shows that without doubt preaching riches is not preaching the gospel. It warns solemnly against such, not only teachings, but teachers. It teaches us the true godliness that is content with what God has given, and the dangers of seeking to be rich. The twisting of words is what leads these teachers to deceive others. 2 Peter 2 also describes this same scenario. That is a false gospel message, and many are deceived by it. No need to put a spin on what "prosper" means when Scripture is clear, but that is what must be done and what will be done to deceive others as per this passage.
2) The above passage shows this is where these teachers lead others, into covetousness. Note 2 Peter 2:3 -- And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
Note: They will use false words, they will twist words, put a spin on words in order to deceive. Brothers and sisters, I do not need to remind you who began that false gospel, right? "Has God said"? or "Here is what that really means". And we see the spin put on words "prosper" and rich turned into "full supply" which spin is contrary to sound doctrine.
3) Concerning what Scripture warns about covetousness in the NT. 2 Corinthians 5:9-11 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."
Note that in the above text Paul, speaking of what the Spirit of God says, likens sexual immorality, and drunkenness on the same level as covetousness. Paul tells this church to expel this wicked man from them, this sexually immoral man. Yet, he would have also told them to expel any person who was covetous and greedy in the same manner since the sins are on the exact same level.
Con'td:
Note Ephesians 5:5 For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is an idolater) has no inheritance in the kingdom of God.
Note that stern warning. Paul warns we may be sure of this (that is, the end of those who are covetous). Covetousness, being taught and suggested by these teachers is well warned against in Scriptures. The Scriptures are clear. But what will happen to rescue this evil false gospel will be to twist the meanings of words as in the first false gospel, and to entice others with the idolatry of covetousness and dressing this false gospel up. It will allure many because it appeals to the flesh and Satan is using this scheme big time to deceive man, and they think that gain is godliness when it in fact is just the opposite.
I'll address one more thing here:
He did this with Job, and others, so let us all who are looking in be careful to not be deceived by human reason as above, but let's instead look to Scripture: Job 2:10 "But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?"
And in saying this God says through His Word, in what Job declared above "In all this Job did not sin with his lips". Why was it necessary for God to vindicate Job here? That he in fact did not sin in what he stated? Because it is clear that Job knew that even the calamity that he had was from God. Read the context, read chapter 1:1ff and see that this is true.
So, the testimony of Scripture is there. God was glorified, and this is not an "abhorrent belief" it is a pure, sound in doctrine Biblical belief. In calling this an "abhorrent belief" you are dead wrong sir and Scripture testifies against this. There is no need to go any further, Scripture is clear for all those who have ears to hear.
God bless all His.
There are many ways of viewing scriptures on some subjects.
One of the things to remember about bible interpretation: Everything in the bible is truly stated but not everything is a statement of ultimate truth. The revelation of Christ Himself is the Truth that trumps all other things that we may "perceive" from the Old Testament beliefs about God.
God's nature never changes - our "perception" of Him can as we see Jesus and His ways in dealing with people do change too - the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ changed everything
The scriptures are "progressive revelation" that end with the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.
Jesus is perfect theology. He is the exact representation of the nature of our Father and He came to do the will of the Father and to reveal the Father's real nature to us all.
If we want to see how our Father views sinners and the self-righteous - see how Jesus interacted with them while on this earth.
If we want to see God's will for providing for us - see how Jesus provided for others - sometimes in rich abundance and there was never any lack.
No where do we find anywhere in Jesus' life where do we see any of these things being said by Jesus to anyone;
1) I can't heal you because God is trying to teach you something.
2) I can't heal you because you have sin in your life.
3) I can't heal you because you have not forgiven your mother-in-law. ( or anyone )
4) I can't heal you because you have not been eating and exercising properly. ( They were all on the Mediterranean Diet too...
)
5) I can't heal you because God wants you to suffer with this sickness so that you will learn to trust in Him.
None of these things ever occurred although we have been taught by some of our church teachings that they are true. There is no evidence in the life of Jesus - in fact - the evidence is the complete opposite of what we have been taught in some circles.
Just to keep the malice down to a minimum - I will say this again concerning riches - I definitely believe that riches can be deceiving and I have written about this many times in the past.
Riches within themselves are neutral - they can be used for good or evil. When we get to heaven we will be constantly surrounded with the "evil riches"....think about it.
Riches are deceiving in the aspect that we think we can find life from them and if we have them - then we really don't need God as He alone is our provider.
This can happen for those that are rich and equally for those that are poor. We are trusting in and looking for life out of whether we have or don't not have them. That is idolatry and will not bring us the life that only is found in Christ.
He is our provider , He is our Healer, He is our Life.
If people have a different view - then that is their choice I won't call you a "cult", false teacher, heretic or insult you personally for your beliefs in these areas. Nor will I create a thread "exposing" your heresies because you have a different view then I do. I will not put devil horns on your picture and put your "wolf face in a sheep's skin".
It's good to speak the light of the Lord Jesus Christ and His light will dispel the darkness like mist on a foggy morning when the light hits it.
The faith that you have - have it before God. All is well...
One of the things to remember about bible interpretation: Everything in the bible is truly stated but not everything is a statement of ultimate truth. The revelation of Christ Himself is the Truth that trumps all other things that we may "perceive" from the Old Testament beliefs about God.
God's nature never changes - our "perception" of Him can as we see Jesus and His ways in dealing with people do change too - the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ changed everything
The scriptures are "progressive revelation" that end with the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.
Jesus is perfect theology. He is the exact representation of the nature of our Father and He came to do the will of the Father and to reveal the Father's real nature to us all.
If we want to see how our Father views sinners and the self-righteous - see how Jesus interacted with them while on this earth.
If we want to see God's will for providing for us - see how Jesus provided for others - sometimes in rich abundance and there was never any lack.
No where do we find anywhere in Jesus' life where do we see any of these things being said by Jesus to anyone;
1) I can't heal you because God is trying to teach you something.
2) I can't heal you because you have sin in your life.
3) I can't heal you because you have not forgiven your mother-in-law. ( or anyone )
4) I can't heal you because you have not been eating and exercising properly. ( They were all on the Mediterranean Diet too...
)5) I can't heal you because God wants you to suffer with this sickness so that you will learn to trust in Him.
None of these things ever occurred although we have been taught by some of our church teachings that they are true. There is no evidence in the life of Jesus - in fact - the evidence is the complete opposite of what we have been taught in some circles.
Just to keep the malice down to a minimum - I will say this again concerning riches - I definitely believe that riches can be deceiving and I have written about this many times in the past.
Riches within themselves are neutral - they can be used for good or evil. When we get to heaven we will be constantly surrounded with the "evil riches"....think about it.
Riches are deceiving in the aspect that we think we can find life from them and if we have them - then we really don't need God as He alone is our provider.
This can happen for those that are rich and equally for those that are poor. We are trusting in and looking for life out of whether we have or don't not have them. That is idolatry and will not bring us the life that only is found in Christ.
He is our provider , He is our Healer, He is our Life.
If people have a different view - then that is their choice I won't call you a "cult", false teacher, heretic or insult you personally for your beliefs in these areas. Nor will I create a thread "exposing" your heresies because you have a different view then I do. I will not put devil horns on your picture and put your "wolf face in a sheep's skin".
It's good to speak the light of the Lord Jesus Christ and His light will dispel the darkness like mist on a foggy morning when the light hits it.
The faith that you have - have it before God. All is well...
P
The problem with your beliefs is that if "rich" is Bad and "poor" is bad,and God is "in betwwen" as you espouse.then lets play that dynamic out.
1) we now need a rule book to define wealthy and poor limits,so we can pinpoint God's "sweet spot" of being,and living ,in moderation. ( my moderation may be different that your superior "biblical" concept.
2)Rule books are written for rule breakers. Sooooo,what shall the repercussions be?
3) Exactly who do you have in mind,when you denounce the "rich". Who decides who is OK,and who is "greedy,and covetous?
If prosperity is bad,what will we do in heaven,since it is adorned in so much wealth that "lack" is actually a foreign concept.?
Consider This;
Luke 6;38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
See that? could that be why some receive blessing (monetary) and some don't?
Lets look at the extreme end of the pendulum. I find some 60 plus verses in the NT concerning rich people,and almost 100% it is in a bad light.
So,a legalist,will hands down come to a normal,"right" conclusion that riches,and rich people are not of God.
But what is really going on?
Rich people,most of them,ironically,are not saved. Nor do they,in their own judgement,need God.
And.....believers,obtaining riches,can end up joining that group of shipwrecks.
You are performing a blanket indictment over half a picture. Riches come with warnings. The safest ground is moderation. Many have fallen over riches. They are a trap.
But what of rich believers,or christian businessmen? Those that money is a tool and is used to run a business?,Or those that are born into wealth and that wealth is just normal life,and the mammon has no hold on their heart or devotion?
There is much more to point out,but what I am saying is that prosperity is indeed of God,but not many can handle it.
Therefore to say your way is God's way ,is off,and a blanket statement is off also.
The truth is,we are family. We are his children,and you don't pitch the keys to a 5 year old,and expect him to properly operate a car. He earns that right.
And so it is with us. If we are like a 5 yr old spiritually mentally and emotionally,and get covered up in wealth,then just expect a major disaster.
That is why your position is off. It is in fact legalism,and your own wealth,in contrast to some poor Nigeria back woods pastor is a vivid testimony against your American over indulgent hording of the Kings finances. How dare you have indoor toilets. That is a waste of the Kings money and testifies how far from moderation you have slipped. You must sell your plumbing now,and send the funds to the hurting pastor in Nigeria.
Now that the proper prism is set,we should never be so presumtious as to pray for any advancement,but rather rejoice in sickness,broken plumbing,and financial ruin.(which is biblical)
But to be honest,we must never,pray for another to meet their "needs" since any money at all needs to go through a "committee" to decide if it is extravagant and excessive.
Legalism.
What a quagmire
1) we now need a rule book to define wealthy and poor limits,so we can pinpoint God's "sweet spot" of being,and living ,in moderation. ( my moderation may be different that your superior "biblical" concept.
2)Rule books are written for rule breakers. Sooooo,what shall the repercussions be?
3) Exactly who do you have in mind,when you denounce the "rich". Who decides who is OK,and who is "greedy,and covetous?
If prosperity is bad,what will we do in heaven,since it is adorned in so much wealth that "lack" is actually a foreign concept.?
Consider This;
Luke 6;38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
See that? could that be why some receive blessing (monetary) and some don't?
Lets look at the extreme end of the pendulum. I find some 60 plus verses in the NT concerning rich people,and almost 100% it is in a bad light.
So,a legalist,will hands down come to a normal,"right" conclusion that riches,and rich people are not of God.
But what is really going on?
Rich people,most of them,ironically,are not saved. Nor do they,in their own judgement,need God.
And.....believers,obtaining riches,can end up joining that group of shipwrecks.
You are performing a blanket indictment over half a picture. Riches come with warnings. The safest ground is moderation. Many have fallen over riches. They are a trap.
But what of rich believers,or christian businessmen? Those that money is a tool and is used to run a business?,Or those that are born into wealth and that wealth is just normal life,and the mammon has no hold on their heart or devotion?
There is much more to point out,but what I am saying is that prosperity is indeed of God,but not many can handle it.
Therefore to say your way is God's way ,is off,and a blanket statement is off also.
The truth is,we are family. We are his children,and you don't pitch the keys to a 5 year old,and expect him to properly operate a car. He earns that right.
And so it is with us. If we are like a 5 yr old spiritually mentally and emotionally,and get covered up in wealth,then just expect a major disaster.
That is why your position is off. It is in fact legalism,and your own wealth,in contrast to some poor Nigeria back woods pastor is a vivid testimony against your American over indulgent hording of the Kings finances. How dare you have indoor toilets. That is a waste of the Kings money and testifies how far from moderation you have slipped. You must sell your plumbing now,and send the funds to the hurting pastor in Nigeria.
Now that the proper prism is set,we should never be so presumtious as to pray for any advancement,but rather rejoice in sickness,broken plumbing,and financial ruin.(which is biblical)
But to be honest,we must never,pray for another to meet their "needs" since any money at all needs to go through a "committee" to decide if it is extravagant and excessive.
Legalism.
What a quagmire
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