King James Bible ONLY? Or NOT?

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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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It looks like those guys didn't know who Jesus was, most theologians do't know anything about God nor the bible. How can Jesus be "I Am" and then be begotten by "I Am"?
I do not know about "those guys", but the Nicene Creed is a basic creed for the whole Church (protestants, catholics, orthodox), so it so called "common faith".
Together with the apostolic creed and maybe some other.

I am quite surprised you are against it.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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I do not know about "those guys", but the Nicene Creed is a basic creed for the whole Church (protestants, catholics, orthodox), so it so called "common faith".
Together with the apostolic creed and maybe some other.

I am quite surprised you are against it.
I'm not......
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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It's very simple did Jesus have an origin... surely you recognize this as an error.
Christians believe that the Son is begotten by Father. So His origin is in Father.

I am really not sure why do you think this is error. There are "better" errors in NIV, you should drop this one, probably.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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I do not know about "those guys", but the Nicene Creed is a basic creed for the whole Church (protestants, catholics, orthodox), so it so called "common faith".
Together with the apostolic creed and maybe some other.

I am quite surprised you are against it.
So what is Jesus in your view? Do you believe Jesus "came out" of God?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Christians believe that the Son is begotten by Father. So His origin is in Father.

I am really not sure why do you think this is error. There are "better" errors in NIV, you should drop this one, probably.
Well I totally disagree that Jesus had an origin.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Well I totally disagree that Jesus had an origin.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.[John 1:14]

Care to explain? I quoted it in the KJV, too.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.[John 1:14]

Care to explain? I quoted it in the KJV, too.
And the WORD was made FLESH.... The WORD existed before he was made FLESH, his FLESH BODY was begotten by the Father.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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And the WORD was made FLESH.... The WORD existed before he was made FLESH, his FLESH BODY was begotten by the Father.
That's what I believe too. I too believe as long as the Father has been, so has the Godhead.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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So what is Jesus in your view? Do you believe Jesus "came out" of God?
Hm, I tried to respond for myself and formulate it properly, but I think it will be better to just post some old creeds and to say I agree with them so that I will not be inventing a wheel again:


The Nicene Creed (385):



We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made;



And for example The Second Helvetic Confession (1534):

"GOD IS THREE. Notwithstanding we believe and teach that the same immense, one and indivisible God is in person inseparably and without confusion distinguished as Father, Son and Holy Spirit so, as the Father has begotten the Son from eternity, the Son is begotten by an ineffable generation, and the holy Spirit truly proceeds from them both, and the same from eternity and is to be worshipped with both.

Thus there are not three gods, but three persons, cosubstantial, coeternal, and coequal; distinct with respect to hypostases, and with respect to order, the one preceding the other yet without any inequality. For according to the nature or essence they are so joined together that they are one God, and the divine nature is common to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit."
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.[John 1:14]

Care to explain? I quoted it in the KJV, too.
Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

A body was prepared for the Word to become flesh and dwell among us. That seed that was placed inside Mary's womb was placed there by God not Joseph. The Word moved inside that prepared body and became the only begotten Son of the Father. He was not merely God's only Son, but His only begotten Son. It all has to do with the origins of the body prepared for Him.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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Hm, I tried to respond for myself and formulate it properly, but I think it will be better to just post some old creeds and to say I agree with them so that I will not be inventing a wheel again:


The Nicene Creed (385):



We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made;



And for example The Second Helvetic Confession (1534):

"GOD IS THREE. Notwithstanding we believe and teach that the same immense, one and indivisible God is in person inseparably and without confusion distinguished as Father, Son and Holy Spirit so, as the Father has begotten the Son from eternity, the Son is begotten by an ineffable generation, and the holy Spirit truly proceeds from them both, and the same from eternity and is to be worshipped with both.

Thus there are not three gods, but three persons, cosubstantial, coeternal, and coequal; distinct with respect to hypostases, and with respect to order, the one preceding the other yet without any inequality. For according to the nature or essence they are so joined together that they are one God, and the divine nature is common to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit."
The Father didn't beget the Son, the Father begat the flesh body of Jesus.

Hebrews 10:5 KJV
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

A body was prepared for the Word to become flesh and dwell among us. That seed that was placed inside Mary's womb was placed there by God not Joseph. The Word moved inside that prepared body and became the only begotten Son of the Father. He was not merely God's only Son, but His only begotten Son. It all has to do with the origins of the body prepared for Him.
I quite wonder you quoted the Hebrews 10:5 which proves your KJV OT is corrupted :)

Can you find for me that God prepared a body for the Son, in your OT?

Psalm 40:6 (KJV)
"Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required."

Psalm 40:6 (LXX)
"Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not; but a body hast thou prepared me."
 
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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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The Father didn't beget the Son, the Father begat the flesh body of Jesus.

Hebrews 10:5 KJV
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
I am not talking about His body.

Are you not worried that your belief is against the protestantism and practically non-existent in any church from the East to the West?

I am pretty sure it is against the belief of the KJV translators as well.
 
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Nov 23, 2013
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I quite wonder you quoted the Hebrews 10:5 which proves your KJV OT is corrupted :)

Can you find for me that God prepared a body for the Son, in your OT?

Psalm 40:6 (KJV)
"Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required."

Psalm 40:6 (LXX)
"Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not; but a body hast thou prepared me."
Again, you're assuming a quotation I think. That's not a quotation, it's a reference to a different Psalms. The one below is the physical body of Christ.

Psalm 139:15-16 KJV
My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
[16] Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Again, you're assuming a quotation I think. That's not a quotation, it's a reference to a different Psalms. The one below is the physical body of Christ.

Psalm 139:15-16 KJV
My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
[16] Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
Again, you must do this apparent twist to defend your KJV consistency :)

And then to come with the conspiracy theory of Christians rewriting the LXX to fit with the NT.
And with making the unbelieving Jews the perfect keepers of the OT prophecies about Christ (where, suprisingly, all such mesianic references are not to be found)
 
Nov 23, 2013
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I am not talking about His body.

Are you not worried that your belief is against the protestantism and practically non-existent in any church from the East to the West?

I am pretty sure it is against the belief of the KJV translators as well.
You know my beliefs come from the KJV and not church teachings. You may not be talking about his body, but when Jesus is called begotten of the Father in the bible, it's talking about his flesh body... Jesus DID NOT have an origin!
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
Again, you're assuming a quotation I think. That's not a quotation, it's a reference to a different Psalms. The one below is the physical body of Christ.

Psalm 139:15-16 KJV
My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
[16] Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
Can you tell me how for example Apollo could powerfully convince Jews that Jesus is Christ, if he had such a strange version of OT you have?

Your OT references would not convince even me... and I am a believing Christian.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Again, you must do this apparent twist to defend your KJV consistency :)

And then to come with the conspiracy theory of Christians rewriting the LXX to fit with the NT.
And with making the unbelieving Jews the perfect keepers of the OT prophecies about Christ (where, suprisingly, all such mesianic references are not to be found)
Do you not see that that Psalm is talking about BOTH the physical body of Christ at his first coming and his spiritual body (believers) at his second coming?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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You know my beliefs come from the KJV and not church teachings. You may not be talking about his body, but when Jesus is called begotten of the Father in the bible, it's talking about his flesh body... Jesus DID NOT have an origin!
I know about your source. But do you know that even the KJV translators would call you by some not very good names because of your "KJV belief"?

I do not think this is consistent.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Can you tell me how for example Apollo could powerfully convince Jews that Jesus is Christ, if he had such a strange version of OT you have?

Your OT references would not convince even me... and I am a believing Christian.
God opens the eyes not me, I just present the verses. Again, your belief that the WHOLE old testament is wrong in all bibles is definitely hindering your ability to see.... no offence, I'm trying to help. :)