Know that summer is near - we are now living in the last of the last days

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GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
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#61
The two witness are the wild olive and the cultivated olive
IF you would JUST READ, it is explained as such.

Just as the two lampstands are truth and the Spirit
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
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#62
Preterism has litle to do with historic revelation.
Christ will come at the rapture of the saints........at the LAST TRUMPET, which to date has not yet sounded.
It is the last and final.
Then the earth is destroyed by intense heat.
No 1000 years.
chiloi/chiias
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
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#63
The Old Testament saints returned from the heart of the earth at the same one Jesus returned from the heart of the earth. Wouldn’t you agree?
I think I missed something here. :eek:
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
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#64
Yeah its history.

Remember that time in history when Jesus returned with His saints?

Remember that time in history when the mark of the beast was implemented?

Remember that time in history when the antichrist was persecuting the saints? Even the early church fathers spoke of it as future and they were writing that during severe persecution in the 100s and 200s!

Remember that time in history when all grass was burnt up?

Remember when third of the ships sunk and waters turned into blod and fish perished?

Remember when the two witnesses were laying in Jerusalem, the nations were glad and sent gifts to each other and they were raptured up?

Yeah............. Me neither.

Preterism belongs to that trash heap of history (pun intended)
I answered every one of your objections, each one is a separate post. OF COURSE THEY MAY BE BEYOND YOUR COMPREHENSION
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
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#65
"mark of the beast"......sybolic of belonging to the devil
Seal of the Holy Spirit...... symbolic of belonging to Christ.

There are no actual marks or seals
Count his number 666 - 66 tens + 6 ones = Man adding to the word of God.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
10,850
594
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#66
I think I missed something here. :eek:
When Jesus died, his spirit went and ministered to the spirits in prison. When he resurrected he brought them with him.

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,


Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,243
2,403
113
#67
When does the symbolism of Revelation become literal? When those with no understanding want it to be.
All the symbolism of the seals, bowls and trumpets become literal when those with stubborn unteachable hearts want to throw up red herrings.
Prophecy about Jesus' first coming was literal

And if its not, nobody can ever tell if its been fulfilled and prophecy loses its meaning
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
314
83
#68
When Jesus died, his spirit went and ministered to the spirits in prison. When he resurrected he brought them with him.

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,


Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
I like to think that those are with the Lord :)........the host of heaven singing Hallelujah!
And since then "to die is gain" ........."to be absent from the body is TO BE with the Lord"

My bible (NASB) uses the word tombs, not prison. HOWEVER, when only Matthew reports this I tend to not try to make much of a point of it. Its like pentecostals using Mark 16 as their wedge issue, a chapter that cannot be verified to ever have been in early manuscripts of Mark.
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
314
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#69
Prophecy about Jesus' first coming was literal

And if its not, nobody can ever tell if its been fulfilled and prophecy loses its meaning

YES the messiah prophesies were literal.
I don't see what you mean, since prophecy of Messiah wasn't foretold in symbolic terms.
If it was, please point it out and I will look at it.

His second coming is also literal, the ONLY prophecy not yet fulfillled.
All prophecy to Jews fulfilled........ONE Prophecy to Gentiles not yet fulfilled.

We can tell if prophecy is fulfilled by HISTORY. That is how we know the prophet was of God.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
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#70
“28 Now learn a Parable of the fig tree (symbolic of Israel and the Second Coming); When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves (refers to the rebirth of Israel as it began in 1948; for about nineteen hundred years this “fig tree” produced nothing, now this tree, taking life from the roots, is beginning to “put forth leaves”), you know that summer is near (Israel is God’s prophetic time clock; looking at Israel, we now know that summer is near, i.e., “the Endtime Prophecies are about to be fulfilled”):
No it's not "symbolic of Israel" and it does not refer to "the rebirth of Israel in 1948".

Swaggert had been smoking those dispensational reefers.

Next. . . .
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
10,850
594
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#71
I like to think that those are with the Lord :)........the host of heaven singing Hallelujah!
And since then "to die is gain" ........."to be absent from the body is TO BE with the Lord"

My bible (NASB) uses the word tombs, not prison. HOWEVER, when only Matthew reports this I tend to not try to make much of a point of it. Its like pentecostals using Mark 16 as their wedge issue, a chapter that cannot be verified to ever have been in early manuscripts of Mark.
Here's a second witness.

Eze 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
Eze 37:13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
Eze 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
10,850
594
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#72
I like to think that those are with the Lord :)........the host of heaven singing Hallelujah!
And since then "to die is gain" ........."to be absent from the body is TO BE with the Lord"

My bible (NASB) uses the word tombs, not prison. HOWEVER, when only Matthew reports this I tend to not try to make much of a point of it. Its like pentecostals using Mark 16 as their wedge issue, a chapter that cannot be verified to ever have been in early manuscripts of Mark.
Here's a third witness lol.

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

At the time of Jacob's Trouble, many of them that slept in the dust were awakened, some to everlasting life and some to everlasting contempt.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
675
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#73
Here's a second witness.

Eze 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
Eze 37:13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
Eze 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
The way I view this 16 is that this is not to be understood in a literal sense - when Israel was banished from the temple and the city they considered themselves to be dead hence "in the graves"

In Israelite speak (or poetic/metaphoric language) being separated from God and or the land was to be "dead" or "in the grave."

What Ezekiel is describing is bringing the living diaspora back into fellowship with him from exilic death and their "graves" - not a bringing up of decomposed bodies out of the ground.
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
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#74
Here's a second witness.

Eze 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
Eze 37:13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
Eze 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

we are not talking zombies here, are we? :D

Have to read in context, .....who what where

I looked and its about the nation of Israel
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
10,850
594
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#75
The way I view this 16 is that this is not to be understood in a literal sense - when Israel was banished from the temple and the city they considered themselves to be dead hence "in the graves"

In Israelite speak (or poetic/metaphoric language) being separated from God and or the land was to be "dead" or "in the grave."

What Ezekiel is describing is bringing the living diaspora back into fellowship with him from exilic death and their "graves" - not a bringing up of decomposed bodies out of the ground.
I don't understand why laying sinew and muscle on dead bones would be considered symbolic especially since Matthew said that it happened literally. This is not a big deal with me, this is what I believe and I can agree to disagree on this one. But I will say that not understanding this or not taking this literally gives a distorted view of the first resurrection.
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
314
83
#76
Here's a third witness lol.

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

At the time of Jacob's Trouble, many of them that slept in the dust were awakened, some to everlasting life and some to everlasting contempt.
At this point, I'm trying to figure what YOUR point is. :confused:
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
314
83
#77
I don't understand why laying sinew and muscle on dead bones would be considered symbolic especially since Matthew said that it happened literally. This is not a big deal with me, this is what I believe and I can agree to disagree on this one. But I will say that not understanding this or not taking this literally gives a distorted view of the first resurrection.

Yes it can be considered symbolically......think about it....what would muscle etc mean to a nation under persecution
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
4,528
518
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#78
Got to say it, ........you sure do have an active imagination.
If you are referring to the symbolism of Revelation........rest easy, no monster coming to get you.....it is history and not about to be repeated.

If it is history then who was it who received the mark of the beast and when? Yes I am referring to Revelation 13 and the mark that they use to buy and sell.

The Jews who revolted during the ad66-70 revolt against Rome minted there own money because Romes had pagan images on them, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage and so it cannot be said they used Romes afterwards. And in Josephus wars 2 http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-2.html it is explained that the Jews showed impiety to Rome and Caesar and so it cannot be said that they saw Caesar as a god nor did they worship the images of the pagans in fact they "REVOLTED" and went to war to keep them from setting up the images in the synagogues and the temple in Jerusalem.

At the same time the Christians were being told to see the powers over them at that time(Rome) as ordained by God(Romans 13:1,1Peter 2:13-14) and to give them their dues(Romans 13:7). So if Rome at that time or Caesar were the beast/image spoken of in Revelation 13:15-18 then the apostles would be telling their fellow Christians to buy and sell with its mark,

Rome was not destroyed in ad70 and would continue onward into the future and divide into the east and western empires so how do you see the mark of the beast and it's image being fulfilled at some time in the past? That is all three groups(pagan Rome,the Jews and the Christians) seem to have not fulfilled this.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
10,850
594
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#79
At this point, I'm trying to figure what YOUR point is. :confused:
My initial point was that Christ returned from the heart of the earth with the Old Testament saints. So the verse that Hevosmies used to prove HADN'T happened yet really has already happened. The verse he was trying to put at the end of time was actually a verse about the resurrection of Christ.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
10,850
594
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#80
Yes it can be considered symbolically......think about it....what would muscle etc mean to a nation under persecution
Why would it be considered symbolic when it LITERALLY happened at the resurrection of Christ?