Know that summer is near - we are now living in the last of the last days

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Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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#81
I don't understand why laying sinew and muscle on dead bones would be considered symbolic especially since Matthew said that it happened literally. This is not a big deal with me, this is what I believe and I can agree to disagree on this one. But I will say that not understanding this or not taking this literally gives a distorted view of the first resurrection.
I don't think there is a connection between Ezekiel and Matthew - you are trying to make one which I don't believe exists.

Sinew and muscle is just another form of prophetic language not to be taken in a literalist sense just as John the Baptist was not involved in a major construction project in Israel

Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
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#82
Rome was not destroyed in ad70 and would continue onward into the future and divide into the east and western empires so how do you see the mark of the beast and it's image being fulfilled at some time in the past? That is all three groups(pagan Rome,the Jews and the Christians) seem to have not fulfilled this.[/QUOTE]

I have NO idea where you are getting this wild stuff.
for instance: Rome was not destroyed in ad70, the TEMPLE at Jerusalem was

there is no mark as such..........the mark of the beast and the seal of the Holy Spirit are symbolic of ownership.
I don't have any clue as to where you are coming from with these views. It's like trying to nail jello to a tree
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
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#83
My initial point was that Christ returned from the heart of the earth with the Old Testament saints. So the verse that Hevosmies used to prove HADN'T happened yet really has already happened. The verse he was trying to put at the end of time was actually a verse about the resurrection of Christ.

OIC.......tossing pearls. got it. That is what we do....pack up our pearls and head for the forum.:D
 
Oct 12, 2012
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#84
Yeah its history.

Remember that time in history when Jesus returned with His saints?

Remember that time in history when the mark of the beast was implemented?

Remember that time in history when the antichrist was persecuting the saints? Even the early church fathers spoke of it as future and they were writing that during severe persecution in the 100s and 200s!

Remember that time in history when all grass was burnt up?

Remember when third of the ships sunk and waters turned into blod and fish perished?

Remember when the two witnesses were laying in Jerusalem, the nations were glad and sent gifts to each other and they were raptured up?

Yeah............. Me neither.

Preterism belongs to that trash heap of history (pun intended)

We're just talking about the last days according to scripture and your talking here like you've lost your mind!! You cannot take literally the hyperbole of the language of the ancient prophets of Israel??!! 😋
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
5,658
877
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#85
Rome was not destroyed in ad70 and would continue onward into the future and divide into the east and western empires so how do you see the mark of the beast and it's image being fulfilled at some time in the past? That is all three groups(pagan Rome,the Jews and the Christians) seem to have not fulfilled this.
I have NO idea where you are getting this wild stuff.
for instance: Rome was not destroyed in ad70, the TEMPLE at Jerusalem was

there is no mark as such..........the mark of the beast and the seal of the Holy Spirit are symbolic of ownership.
I don't have any clue as to where you are coming from with these views. It's like trying to nail jello to a tree[/QUOTE]


You said it was history show who and how. You should re-read my post you misquoted me by accident I think.
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
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#86
Why would it be considered symbolic when it LITERALLY happened at the resurrection of Christ?
How would the Jews interpret this message?
An actual quickening of the dead with muscle and sinew..........how do those bodies fit into idea of new bodies
Are there flesh and blood bodies in heaven?

What do you think?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#87
I don't think there is a connection between Ezekiel and Matthew - you are trying to make one which I don't believe exists.

Sinew and muscle is just another form of prophetic language not to be taken in a literalist sense just as John the Baptist was not involved in a major construction project in Israel

Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
It literally happened though.... did it not? Were the bodies in the ground before the resurrection of Christ dry bones? Did God lay sinews and muscle on them, did God not put his spirit in them and they walked around the city of Jerusalem?
 
Oct 12, 2012
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#88
Rome was not destroyed in ad70 and would continue onward into the future and divide into the east and western empires so how do you see the mark of the beast and it's image being fulfilled at some time in the past? That is all three groups(pagan Rome,the Jews and the Christians) seem to have not fulfilled this.
I have NO idea where you are getting this wild stuff.
for instance: Rome was not destroyed in ad70, the TEMPLE at Jerusalem was

there is no mark as such..........the mark of the beast and the seal of the Holy Spirit are symbolic of ownership.
I don't have any clue as to where you are coming from with these views. It's like trying to nail jello to a tree[/QUOTE]


I did not say Rome was destroyed in 70ad if your speaking to me
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#89
How would the Jews interpret this message?
An actual quickening of the dead with muscle and sinew..........how do those bodies fit into idea of new bodies
Are there flesh and blood bodies in heaven?

What do you think?
I'm sure they had the same type of body Christ had when he resurrected. Christ's resurrected body had flesh and bones. When the disciples saw Christ ascend into heaven, did he ascend in the physical body the disciples were standing there looking at? Or did his resurrection body hit the ground and begin to decompose as his spirit rose to heaven?

I'll tell you like I told Locutus, it is a GIVEN that Christ ascended with the Old Testament saints because the bible says he comes the same way he left. It's not a big deal to me if you don't see it.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
5,658
877
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#90
I have NO idea where you are getting this wild stuff.
for instance: Rome was not destroyed in ad70, the TEMPLE at Jerusalem was

there is no mark as such..........the mark of the beast and the seal of the Holy Spirit are symbolic of ownership.
I don't have any clue as to where you are coming from with these views. It's like trying to nail jello to a tree

I did not say Rome was destroyed in 70ad if your speaking to me[/QUOTE]


I think it was by accident but meant for me I said Rome was NOT destroyed in ad70 in post #78,pg.4
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
113
#91
I have NO idea where you are getting this wild stuff.
for instance: Rome was not destroyed in ad70, the TEMPLE at Jerusalem was

there is no mark as such..........the mark of the beast and the seal of the Holy Spirit are symbolic of ownership.
I don't have any clue as to where you are coming from with these views. It's like trying to nail jello to a tree

I did not say Rome was destroyed in 70ad if your speaking to me[/QUOTE]
Those are not even MY quotes.
I have NO idea where you are getting this wild stuff.
for instance: Rome was not destroyed in ad70, the TEMPLE at Jerusalem was

there is no mark as such..........the mark of the beast and the seal of the Holy Spirit are symbolic of ownership.
I don't have any clue as to where you are coming from with these views. It's like trying to nail jello to a tree

I did not say Rome was destroyed in 70ad if your speaking to me[/QUOTE]

I did not address you, don't know how this post got messed up but what looks like "my" quote is not mine and what looks like the answer to that post IS my post. Makes me nuts when that happens.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
5,658
877
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#92
might be something in the page program its mixing my quotes also,,,lol
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
113
#93
Anothr mess
I'm sure they had the same type of body Christ had when he resurrected. Christ's resurrected body had flesh and bones. When the disciples saw Christ ascend into heaven, did he ascend in the physical body the disciples were standing there looking at? Or did his resurrection body hit the ground and begin to decompose as his spirit rose to heaven?

I'll tell you like I told Locutus, it is a GIVEN that Christ ascended with the Old Testament saints because the bible says he comes the same way he left. It's not a big deal to me if you don't see it.
I think I will just let that be a Mystery for me until the day I know for sure! One of many.
Please tell me I will not have a body that gets arthritis in those muscles.
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
113
#95
Iamsoandos..........I tried to answer your questions, think it all got side-tracked
Hope you get the answers you need.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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684
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#97
It literally happened though.... did it not? Were the bodies in the ground before the resurrection of Christ dry bones? Did God lay sinews and muscle on them, did God not put his spirit in them and they walked around the city of Jerusalem?
According to Matt something happened - that was not the "first resurrection" of John's revelation though - the first resurrection that John is speaking of is being made alive with Christ through the preaching of the gospel, he is not speaking of a literal bodily rising.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

The above is the "first resurrection".
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
5,658
877
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#98
If it is history then who was it who received the mark of the beast and when? Yes I am referring to Revelation 13 and the mark that they use to buy and sell.

The Jews who revolted during the ad66-70 revolt against Rome minted there own money because Romes had pagan images on them, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage and so it cannot be said they used Romes afterwards. And in Josephus wars 2 http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-2.html it is explained that the Jews showed impiety to Rome and Caesar and so it cannot be said that they saw Caesar as a god nor did they worship the images of the pagans in fact they "REVOLTED" and went to war to keep them from setting up the images in the synagogues and the temple in Jerusalem.

At the same time the Christians were being told to see the powers over them at that time(Rome) as ordained by God(Romans 13:1,1Peter 2:13-14) and to give them their dues(Romans 13:7). So if Rome at that time or Caesar were the beast/image spoken of in Revelation 13:15-18 then the apostles would be telling their fellow Christians to buy and sell with its mark,

Rome was not destroyed in ad70 and would continue onward into the future and divide into the east and western empires so how do you see the mark of the beast and it's image being fulfilled at some time in the past? That is all three groups(pagan Rome,the Jews and the Christians) seem to have not fulfilled this.

here's the question again...I'll be back this evening
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
684
113
#99
here's the question again...I'll be back this evening
I think you are framing the scriptures to fit a scenario of your own making soandso, "abandon all hope" of trying to reconcile your ideas tongue.png
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
113
here's the question again...I'll be back this evening
As I said before, the "mark" of the beast and the "seal" of the Holy Spirit are symbolic of ownership
All reprobates have the mark of the beast, all Christians had the seal of the Holy Spirit

These are not actual marks or seals that are apparent to the eye.

If you are trying to understand Revelation, you may be running before you can walk.