LEGALSIM...how do you know if your a "legalist"

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p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#61
Sep 4, 2013
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#61
Mitspa said:
Calm down bama don't get into the flesh ...:)

Ga 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings,
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I am calm Brother...........saw this comment before I saw the other........that's all........ :)

Why would you quote those Scriptures to me? You can't possibly believe that I harbor in my heart...... hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife...... can you? All I am doing is asking for clarifications.

Is it not incumbent on one who chooses to teach to answer questions concerning their teachings?
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#62
#62
michael56 said:
I wonder how many people on this thread strive to obey each and every literal command of Christ in the Gospels. Anyone who fibs isn't keeping them
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You shouldn't have to strive to keep any of the commandments, as if you are walking in the Spirit and letting the Holy Spirit guide you then you will automatically keep them.
If you are not keeping them it is of your own doing, and not the Holy Spirit who is in you as you would be denying His guidance.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#63
#63
p_rehbein said:
I am calm Brother...........saw this comment before I saw the other........that's all........ :)

Why would you quote those Scriptures to me? You can't possibly believe that I harbor in my heart...... hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife...... can you? All I am doing is asking for clarifications.

Is it not incumbent on one who chooses to teach to answer questions concerning their teachings?
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Just making a point I made at the beginning of this thread... Your cool :)
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#64
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#64
SaintJoeNow said:
You are neglecting the multitude of passages in the New as well as the Old Testament which tell us how to live and how to please God.

But as he which has called you is holy, so be you holy in all manner of conversation (1 Pet. 1:15)

this is only one summary verse of the many passages in the Bible, New Testament as well as old, which tell God's people how to live and how to please God. "All manner of conversation" covers everything including the way you dress which sends a message, the music you listen to which leads your emotions, the way you talk, the places you go, everything. Legalism is trying to justify yourself to prove you are better than another person so you don't deserve to burn in Hell. We all deserve to burn in Hell, and if you think you deserve Hell less than me because you are being a better person or a better Christian, you are being legalistic while you may be pretending to be spritual giving yourself a license for unholy passages of your time.
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Are you suggesting that you can do something to make yourself more acceptable to God?

Do you understand the concept of grace?

Psalm 51 god is looking for and desires a contrite heart not sacrifice and offerings.

Legalism is a heart issue not a theological issue.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#65
#65
Mitspa said:
Just making a point I made at the beginning of this thread... Your cool :)
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And Im trying to answer you in clear biblical terms...so no one has any place to make some charge against the truth.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#66
Sep 4, 2013
30,643
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#66
Mitspa said:
Works of faith and love...not works of the law.... there is a huge difference and most bible students understand this difference...have you never studied it?
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Well, yes, I have studied this.......many, many times........I am only trying to understand your understanding of this. So, again I will ask:

1) Is keeping the Commandments of Jesus different than living under the Law? YES_____ or NO______

2) Is the Church today to keep/obey the Commandments of Jesus (see list if need be)? YES____ or NO_____

3) Does Spiritual obedience require physical action? YES______ or NO______

this will greatly help in my understanding :)
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#67
#67
kennethcadwell said:
You shouldn't have to strive to keep any of the commandments, as if you are walking in the Spirit and letting the Holy Spirit guide you then you will automatically keep them.
If you are not keeping them it is of your own doing, and not the Holy Spirit who is in you as you would be denying His guidance.
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Right if you love you have fulfilled the law...its simple if you walk in faith...but if your try to do it through the written code of the law, you will only stir up the flesh to sin.
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#68
#68
popcorn2.gif

Think I'll stick around awhile.
 
S

SaintJoeNow

Banned
#69
Feb 19, 2015
313
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#69
any thought or act on which there is NOT consany thought or act on which there is NOT consensus among believers that it is wrong is not among them.

The only thing worse than not acting on your convictions is imposing them on someone else.

It is not a believer's role to determine where anyone will spend eternity. ensus among believers that it is wrong is not among them.

The only thing worse than not acting on your convictions is imposing them on someone else.

It is not a believer's role to determine where anyone will spend eternity.

This is a big hog wash. "Consesus" is not the standard of behavior for God's people , the Word of God is. The Bible is very clear on how we are to live holy lives. Far too many Christians today presume holiness upon themselves and turn that presumption into pernicious lasciviousness in allowing themselves to enjoy worldly enterntainments and activities which are not honoring to the Saviour who supposedly owns them after purchasing their lives with His own life's blood.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#70
#70
p_rehbein said:
Well, yes, I have studied this.......many, many times........I am only trying to understand your understanding of this. So, again I will ask:

1) Is keeping the Commandments of Jesus different than living under the Law? YES_____ or NO______

2) Is the Church today to keep/obey the Commandments of Jesus (see list if need be)? YES____ or NO_____

3) Does Spiritual obedience require physical action? YES______ or NO______

this will greatly help in my understanding :)
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I have already answered that obedience is in faith and love...not legalism .... yes we obey by faith and love....Legalism is disobedience to Christ!

Yes we have real works of faith and love...yes real faith has real action...real love has real actions of love...

Legalism is dead works!

Like I said I will use biblical terms as the bible teaches...to explain the truth ...that way everything stays in context and can be proven in the scriptures.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#71
#71
Mitspa said:
Right if you love you have fulfilled the law...its simple if you walk in faith...but if your try to do it through the written code of the law, you will only stir up the flesh to sin.
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Yes but the proof of a true faith would show that through love you would not covet, lie, steal, murder, hate, envy, and so on....

If those things are in your life then you are not walking in the Spirit.
For we do not try to keep the 613 Mosaic laws to be justified by them, as we are justified by Christ to keep us walking properly in the Spirit. I see so many stating they are true born again believers, but then in the same breath say they sin every single day. That is a contradiction of scripture and a misuse of 1 John 1:8-10, because if you sin every single day they still do have dominion on you rather you say you repented/confessed or not.
Producing fruit/works of repentance is not continuing in them, and denying the power of the Holy Spirit working within us to strengthen us and keep us from sin.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#72
#72
kennethcadwell said:
Yes but the proof of a true faith would show that through love you would not covet, lie, steal, murder, hate, envy, and so on....

If those things are in your life then you are not walking in the Spirit.
For we do not try to keep the 613 Mosaic laws to be justified by them, as we are justified by Christ to keep us walking properly in the Spirit. I see so many stating they are true born again believers, but then in the same breath say they sin every single day. That is a contradiction of scripture and a misuse of 1 John 1:8-10, because if you sin every single day they still do have dominion on you rather you say you repented/confessed or not.
Producing fruit/works of repentance is not continuing in them, and denying the power of the Holy Spirit working within us to strengthen us and keep us from sin.
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I say yes is very fair to expect those under the law of Love , in Christ to actually love! In fact a real Christians should be under a standard that is above "thou shalt not steal" a real Christian should be looking to give and help others.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#73
Sep 4, 2013
30,643
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#73
Mitspa said:
I have already answered that obedience is in faith and love...not legalism .... yes we obey by faith and love....Legalism is disobedience to Christ!

Yes we have real works of faith and love...yes real faith has real action...real love has real actions of love...

Legalism is dead works!

Like I said I will use biblical terms as the bible teaches...to explain the truth ...that way everything stays in context and can be proven in the scriptures.
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Ok, IF I understand your answer here......you said YES to my three questions? IF so, then I fully agree. So, IF through our love of God and obedience to the Commandments of Christ, we physically strive to fulfill His Commandments, we ARE NOT "legalists?" And, in so doing, we are not "adding to" His salvation plan, but our "works through love and faith" are a "fruit" of our salvation. In this case, should we be called "legalists" if we believe that we must do these "works through love and faith?" I'm reminded of the story of the Good Samaritan..........remember that one? I know you do.

Who did Jesus applaud? Was it not the one who showed his love for his fellow man through "works?"

In my opinion, much of this misunderstanding within the Body (not referring to you or I) is because of the misunderstanding of Salvation and Sanctification......but, that may just be my opinion.

ALSO: To be clear to any who read my comments (can not speak for others) I am sincerely, and lovingly engaging in a Study of Gods Word. Not combative......not angry......not asserting any special understanding.....simply studying together.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#74
#74
See that's the difference between a real Christian and a "legalist" a legalist sees obedience to the "letter" a real Christian sees obedience is to love. A legalist thinks God is pleased because they don't steal...but their hearts are cold and bitter...just like the hypocrites of old....when God wants LOVE...not legalism!
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#75
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#75
Mitspa said:
Yes He is teaching love not legalism...he has already explained that the "letter" of the law produces sinful passions and that we must serve God in the spirit and not in the oldness of the letter...

Can you guys not see the truth?
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Yep, I can see that the summation of the Commandments is love. The summation does not do away with the points being summed up.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#76
#76
p_rehbein said:
Ok, IF I understand your answer here......you said YES to my three questions? IF so, then I fully agree. So, IF through our love of God and obedience to the Commandments of Christ, we physically strive to fulfill His Commandments, we ARE NOT "legalists?" And, in so doing, we are not "adding to" His salvation plan, but our "works through love and faith" are a "fruit" of our salvation. In this case, should we be called "legalists" if we believe that we must do these "works through love and faith?" I'm reminded of the story of the Good Samaritan..........remember that one? I know you do.

Who did Jesus applaud? Was it not the one who showed his love for his fellow man through "works?"

In my opinion, much of this misunderstanding within the Body (not referring to you or I) is because of the misunderstanding of Salvation and Sanctification......but, that may just be my opinion.

ALSO: To be clear to any who read my comments (can not speak for others) I am sincerely, and lovingly engaging in a Study of Gods Word. Not combative......not angry......not asserting any special understanding.....simply studying together.
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I defined a legalist ...if you feel that includes you? Then maybe you should consider my last couple of post?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#77
#77
john832 said:
Yep, I can see that the summation of the Commandments is love. The summation does not do away with the points being summed up.
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No it agrees with the commandment to love...and love is what God wants and demands...not legalism.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#78
#78
If some of you would actually take up the commandment of Christ, to love you might see how the Spirit of God actually does a far better job than your flesh could ever do.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#79
Sep 4, 2013
30,643
6,837
113
#79
Mitspa said:
I defined a legalist ...if you feel that includes you? Then maybe you should consider my last couple of post?
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But, but, that doesn't mean I understood your definition, because you didn't speak directly to my questions...... :(

If you do not specifically address the questions I posed, I could leave this study believing that I am right when I may have been wrong..........or believing I am wrong when I may have been right.

My sole attention is on the Commandments of Jesus (see list posted) if that helps.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#80
#80
p_rehbein said:
But, but, that doesn't mean I understood your definition, because you didn't speak directly to my questions...... :(

If you do not specifically address the questions I posed, I could leave this study believing that I am right when I may have been wrong..........or believing I am wrong when I may have been right.

My sole attention is on the Commandments of Jesus (see list posted) if that helps.
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Ok lets start with His Commandment to love as He loves you.... if your judging others by a standard you do not keep yourself, are you really keeping His Commandment?
 
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