I have seen from your posts on this website you do not obey each and every literal command of Christ. Who does? But not everyone demands of others what they fail to achieve in their own life. You can reel doctrine off of the top of your head, but the spiritual reality is in your heart, not your head
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I do believe this is important...
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
I am pretty sure Christ did not intend for His followers to dismiss certain Commands because they didn't like them or were uncomfortable with them
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
I am pretty sure Christ did not intend for His followers to dismiss certain Commands because they didn't like them or were uncomfortable with them
I think a person who is a legalist would probably think they are doing what they think GOD would appreciate not realizing that GOD doesn't accept their works before they receive salvation
its the alter that sanctifies the gold and not the gold that sanctifies the alter.
The person can't purify the inside,only GOD can do that.
we have access to this grace provided through faith.
its the alter that sanctifies the gold and not the gold that sanctifies the alter.
The person can't purify the inside,only GOD can do that.
we have access to this grace provided through faith.
J
I know people who I consider to be very legalistic. These people also use this same term to describe others. So I guess there must be different degrees of legalism.
I’m a Pharisee big time - well not quite as much as I once was. My personality type (Kiersey) is “guardian,” which is the one of four types which tends to be legalistic and rule keeping. Not a big plus I guess.
I think to understand legalism (Phariseeism) we need to be aware of the kindness and love of God in dealing with our behavior. As a child I did the thumb and blanket thing. I had a little green blanket, which I carried everywhere, and my right thumb was always clean. I went through several blankets in my childhood before I finally abandoned the practice.
In all that time my mother never once put Sloan’s Lineament on my thumb (burns your mouth) or wrested my blanket from me. We all need some time to mature. However there is a time - down the road - where intervention might happen. That is what happened to me – there came a time in my early adulthood where God had to take my legalism away from me. In my view, legalism is like narcissism – it’s most prominent in our early years. We are to grow out of it as we mature.
Legalism is looked at negatively in Christian circles, but quite frankly – I loved it. Legalism to me is living by a huge host of doctrines, which is comprised mostly of unwritten rules – rules of conduct. And back then in my preteens and teens - I was very proud of keeping most of the rules – didn’t drink, smoke, steal, went to Church a lot, paid tithes, didn’t go to movies, didn’t hang out with unbelievers. Yes, there are a lot of written and unwritten rules to keep in legalism. If you live in legalism, you keep track of all of the rules that you are keeping, and also the rules that others around you are failing to keep. This creates a kind of status in the Church - a specialness – a hierarchy of sorts. You know where you stand in comparison to others. You somehow have earned the right to criticize and judge others - partly to maintain your status. I’m speaking introspectively and not of any of you. Add our Denominational pride, pride of knowledge, pride of our doctrinal correctness, and we are well on our way to becoming a Pharisee – which is what I had become.
But that changed in early adulthood – God determined that he wasn’t going to let me continue with my “little green blanket” of legalism anymore. It had probably helped protect me from a lot of the vices of youth back then – but now it was time to move on toward something better. He seemed to say, “I wish you would take a drink (of Alcohol) so you would stop being so proud of the fact that you don’t drink.” This was the kind of input I was getting. In order to make a long story short, I eventually was able to see what I was doing and quite suddenly suffered a huge collapse of my house of legalism. It was like an unexpected implosion. I was shocked and devastated to realize that I was just a common sinner saved by his grace – nothing more. I only had the same status as everyone else. It was a drop into humility - I felt really lost and alone. I didn’t have any place or status anymore – I had lost my identity and didn’t know who I was anymore. I didn’t have this hidden, mostly superior frame of reference to others anymore. It was a very difficult transition and it took quite awhile to make it. It was a very negative experience to me at the time, but positive in God’s eyes, as I now know.
Legalism often says that rules and doctrines are more important than people are. You can easily justify the rejection of people when their doctrines do not agree with yours. Since when does anyone have totally correct doctrines anyway? There is no standard for doctrines because everything in the Bible has to be interpreted – which always seems to generate multiple directions of thought. I think God deliberately did this so we would not succumb to absolute legalism and know everything with certainty. You have to dig for the truth; and it often does not come out of the book without alternative paths of thought.
God often doesn’t take our little green blankets away from us because sometimes it is the only thing that is keeping us going in life. So timing is important because he said he would not allow more than we could bear. I think there are a lot of crutches we depend on in the Church – and someday God may choose to take them away from us - when the time is right, and we can hold up under the often times disappointment and pain of losing our unrealistic and distorted expectations. Simple things – like being overly attached to people in leadership or ministry. God ultimately wants us to learn how to hear his voice and to walk with him ourselves. We can’t live through someone else’s experience and revelation long term.
He took me at least partially out of legalism – I suspect that I am not fully out yet. God please deliver us from all of our unrealistic expectations.
Legalism cannot substitute for an intimate relationship with God. The law and the scriptures, which we like to change into rules and regulations, are but glimpses and fragments of the total character of God – all to be interpreted through the eyes of love. We’re all growing and maturing – in different areas over time. I guess we need to be mindful to allow God time to change others - just as it has taken a lot of time to change us. And we should not try to take anyone’s little green blanket away from them – before God’s time. They won't give it up anyway.
I’m a Pharisee big time - well not quite as much as I once was. My personality type (Kiersey) is “guardian,” which is the one of four types which tends to be legalistic and rule keeping. Not a big plus I guess.
I think to understand legalism (Phariseeism) we need to be aware of the kindness and love of God in dealing with our behavior. As a child I did the thumb and blanket thing. I had a little green blanket, which I carried everywhere, and my right thumb was always clean. I went through several blankets in my childhood before I finally abandoned the practice.
In all that time my mother never once put Sloan’s Lineament on my thumb (burns your mouth) or wrested my blanket from me. We all need some time to mature. However there is a time - down the road - where intervention might happen. That is what happened to me – there came a time in my early adulthood where God had to take my legalism away from me. In my view, legalism is like narcissism – it’s most prominent in our early years. We are to grow out of it as we mature.
Legalism is looked at negatively in Christian circles, but quite frankly – I loved it. Legalism to me is living by a huge host of doctrines, which is comprised mostly of unwritten rules – rules of conduct. And back then in my preteens and teens - I was very proud of keeping most of the rules – didn’t drink, smoke, steal, went to Church a lot, paid tithes, didn’t go to movies, didn’t hang out with unbelievers. Yes, there are a lot of written and unwritten rules to keep in legalism. If you live in legalism, you keep track of all of the rules that you are keeping, and also the rules that others around you are failing to keep. This creates a kind of status in the Church - a specialness – a hierarchy of sorts. You know where you stand in comparison to others. You somehow have earned the right to criticize and judge others - partly to maintain your status. I’m speaking introspectively and not of any of you. Add our Denominational pride, pride of knowledge, pride of our doctrinal correctness, and we are well on our way to becoming a Pharisee – which is what I had become.
But that changed in early adulthood – God determined that he wasn’t going to let me continue with my “little green blanket” of legalism anymore. It had probably helped protect me from a lot of the vices of youth back then – but now it was time to move on toward something better. He seemed to say, “I wish you would take a drink (of Alcohol) so you would stop being so proud of the fact that you don’t drink.” This was the kind of input I was getting. In order to make a long story short, I eventually was able to see what I was doing and quite suddenly suffered a huge collapse of my house of legalism. It was like an unexpected implosion. I was shocked and devastated to realize that I was just a common sinner saved by his grace – nothing more. I only had the same status as everyone else. It was a drop into humility - I felt really lost and alone. I didn’t have any place or status anymore – I had lost my identity and didn’t know who I was anymore. I didn’t have this hidden, mostly superior frame of reference to others anymore. It was a very difficult transition and it took quite awhile to make it. It was a very negative experience to me at the time, but positive in God’s eyes, as I now know.
Legalism often says that rules and doctrines are more important than people are. You can easily justify the rejection of people when their doctrines do not agree with yours. Since when does anyone have totally correct doctrines anyway? There is no standard for doctrines because everything in the Bible has to be interpreted – which always seems to generate multiple directions of thought. I think God deliberately did this so we would not succumb to absolute legalism and know everything with certainty. You have to dig for the truth; and it often does not come out of the book without alternative paths of thought.
God often doesn’t take our little green blankets away from us because sometimes it is the only thing that is keeping us going in life. So timing is important because he said he would not allow more than we could bear. I think there are a lot of crutches we depend on in the Church – and someday God may choose to take them away from us - when the time is right, and we can hold up under the often times disappointment and pain of losing our unrealistic and distorted expectations. Simple things – like being overly attached to people in leadership or ministry. God ultimately wants us to learn how to hear his voice and to walk with him ourselves. We can’t live through someone else’s experience and revelation long term.
He took me at least partially out of legalism – I suspect that I am not fully out yet. God please deliver us from all of our unrealistic expectations.
Legalism cannot substitute for an intimate relationship with God. The law and the scriptures, which we like to change into rules and regulations, are but glimpses and fragments of the total character of God – all to be interpreted through the eyes of love. We’re all growing and maturing – in different areas over time. I guess we need to be mindful to allow God time to change others - just as it has taken a lot of time to change us. And we should not try to take anyone’s little green blanket away from them – before God’s time. They won't give it up anyway.
If you viewed that Jesus commands could be summed up as ''Love God and love your neighbour'' you wouldn't be in this mess
Why do you think Paul said:
Carry each others burdens and so fulfil the law of Christ Gal 6:2
But if you want to insist a person follows each and every literal command of Christ then you must do that yourself IMHO.
Now show me where I have stated we should not show love to others as Christians
Your comment speaks of desperation to me
Why do you think Paul said:
Carry each others burdens and so fulfil the law of Christ Gal 6:2
But if you want to insist a person follows each and every literal command of Christ then you must do that yourself IMHO.
Now show me where I have stated we should not show love to others as Christians
Your comment speaks of desperation to me
hmmmm i guess what you are saying is that it is sinful to call someone apostate because they affirm that we are saved by grace? or to call ungodly everyone who is in any way involved in any kind of Christian songs written after the late 19th century? or proclaim abominable any woman with hair shorter than shoulder-length, or man with hair reaching past the nape of his neck? or to refuse to speak or associate with anyone who does not 100% agree with you?
Disinformation.............all I am seeing is people so terrified of being labeled a "legalist," that they utilize disinformation and untruthful representations of my comments here to hide their terror.
Again.......my emphasis is NOT on the Law, my emphasis is on the "FRUITS OF SALVATION." Do you understand what the "fruits of our salvation" are? Apparently not, for you are distorting my comments here to reflect your own beliefs.
How many times must I post.............WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE, AND THAT A GIFT FROM GOD, AND NOT BY WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST...........before those of you so willingly to condemn and label others can understand what I am saying? Our "good works" are the "FRUIT of our salvation," they COME AFTER OUR SALVATION.......they serve as a WITNESS TO OUR SALVATION.........Our obedience to Him is REVEALING OUR LOVE OF HIM.
I sincerely wish all these detractors were honest enough to stop distorting what I have said here. I suppose the fear of being condemned as a "legalist" is just to great a fear to overcome........dunno
Again.......my emphasis is NOT on the Law, my emphasis is on the "FRUITS OF SALVATION." Do you understand what the "fruits of our salvation" are? Apparently not, for you are distorting my comments here to reflect your own beliefs.
How many times must I post.............WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE, AND THAT A GIFT FROM GOD, AND NOT BY WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST...........before those of you so willingly to condemn and label others can understand what I am saying? Our "good works" are the "FRUIT of our salvation," they COME AFTER OUR SALVATION.......they serve as a WITNESS TO OUR SALVATION.........Our obedience to Him is REVEALING OUR LOVE OF HIM.
I sincerely wish all these detractors were honest enough to stop distorting what I have said here. I suppose the fear of being condemned as a "legalist" is just to great a fear to overcome........dunno
And therein is revealed the web of deception I suspected would soon appear............All who have posted detracting statements towards my statements have "labeled" me one thing or another, have not actually revealed Christian love and fellowship.................YET if I do not...........then, OH GOODNESS.............I'M DOOMED!
As for appropriate responses to comments here on CC.........I strongly suggest that people remember this little idea;
YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW............Post unto others as you would have them post unto you.............Do not engage in name calling/labeling of others...........and expect to have them not challenge you on it. Christian love does not mean we are not to defend the Gospel of Jesus Christ.......did Christ Himself not show ANGER?
Funny thing is.............all of this doesn't even anger me..........it saddens me to see how Christians are so afraid of being "labeled" something they fear that they will turn from the Gospel of Jesus Christ to curry favor with man.
Goodness................well, I've done enough for now..............will check in later to see what names I am now "labeled" with and what condemnation has been rained down upon me..............
As for appropriate responses to comments here on CC.........I strongly suggest that people remember this little idea;
YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW............Post unto others as you would have them post unto you.............Do not engage in name calling/labeling of others...........and expect to have them not challenge you on it. Christian love does not mean we are not to defend the Gospel of Jesus Christ.......did Christ Himself not show ANGER?
Funny thing is.............all of this doesn't even anger me..........it saddens me to see how Christians are so afraid of being "labeled" something they fear that they will turn from the Gospel of Jesus Christ to curry favor with man.
Goodness................well, I've done enough for now..............will check in later to see what names I am now "labeled" with and what condemnation has been rained down upon me..............
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I lived as a legalist for about 25 years. Now, this was not my choice, but something imposed on me by my husband, who did not understand the gospel. It was about doing things to make other people think I was a "good" Christian. It was also the way he was raised. His mother's favorite saying was, "What will people think?"
During that time, I never turned my heart away from God. And that is what really counts. Not that I blindly "obeyed" my husband, wore modest clothing, or sang like an angel in church.
I woke up one day, and realized I was not growing at all in Christ, despite prayer, Bible reading and study, and church attendance and volunteering in various ministries. Because although I knew Jesus was in my heart, I wasn't following after him in a heart relationship, but I had grown in legalism, and pretending that I was a perfect Christian. (Which I was not!)
When I turned back to serving God, and worrying about what he wanted, my life turned around. I prayed a prayer, listening to a song based on Ephesians 1. That song was "Open the eyes of my heart, Lord"
"that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, [SUP]18 [/SUP]having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints," Eph. 1:17-18
God opened the eyes of my heart in amazing ways. He showed me verse after verse on how to live, how to serve him and serve others. Then he called me to Seminary, where I found godly professors and students, also hungry to know and serve God. Even my husband acknowledged that I had changed radically, like all the years of being legalistic had not. He wished I had told him 15 years earlier that God called me to Seminary, because it might have impacted our children more than our legalistic way of life.
In the end, we do need to obey Christ. But not out of an attempt to be outwardly pleasing to God, but because our heart relationship with Christ demands it. We love God, because he first loved us, while we were yet sinners. (Romans 5:8) That still applies after we are saved!
It means finding a way to serve God from our innermost being, not because of what we do, but because of what HE did, and continues to do.
Like Paul, I pray for everyone to understand the following:
"that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being, [SUP]17 [/SUP]so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love, [SUP]18 [/SUP]may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, [SUP]19 [/SUP]and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God" Eph. 3:16-19
When Christ dwells in our hearts through faith, then we are filled with ALL the fullness of God. Legalism doesn't matter, nor anything but the grace, goodness, and mercy of our living Saviour, Jesus Christ!
[video=youtube;wutmEjdbedE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wutmEjdbedE[/video]
During that time, I never turned my heart away from God. And that is what really counts. Not that I blindly "obeyed" my husband, wore modest clothing, or sang like an angel in church.
I woke up one day, and realized I was not growing at all in Christ, despite prayer, Bible reading and study, and church attendance and volunteering in various ministries. Because although I knew Jesus was in my heart, I wasn't following after him in a heart relationship, but I had grown in legalism, and pretending that I was a perfect Christian. (Which I was not!)
When I turned back to serving God, and worrying about what he wanted, my life turned around. I prayed a prayer, listening to a song based on Ephesians 1. That song was "Open the eyes of my heart, Lord"
"that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, [SUP]18 [/SUP]having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints," Eph. 1:17-18
God opened the eyes of my heart in amazing ways. He showed me verse after verse on how to live, how to serve him and serve others. Then he called me to Seminary, where I found godly professors and students, also hungry to know and serve God. Even my husband acknowledged that I had changed radically, like all the years of being legalistic had not. He wished I had told him 15 years earlier that God called me to Seminary, because it might have impacted our children more than our legalistic way of life.
In the end, we do need to obey Christ. But not out of an attempt to be outwardly pleasing to God, but because our heart relationship with Christ demands it. We love God, because he first loved us, while we were yet sinners. (Romans 5:8) That still applies after we are saved!
It means finding a way to serve God from our innermost being, not because of what we do, but because of what HE did, and continues to do.
Like Paul, I pray for everyone to understand the following:
"that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being, [SUP]17 [/SUP]so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love, [SUP]18 [/SUP]may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, [SUP]19 [/SUP]and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God" Eph. 3:16-19
When Christ dwells in our hearts through faith, then we are filled with ALL the fullness of God. Legalism doesn't matter, nor anything but the grace, goodness, and mercy of our living Saviour, Jesus Christ!
[video=youtube;wutmEjdbedE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wutmEjdbedE[/video]
Romans 8:1-8
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4Thatthe righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Romans 3:21-31
21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4Thatthe righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Romans 3:21-31
21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.