Let's Take a Deeper Look at this Hyper Stuff

[Grace777x70]

To all of them, Paul rebuked, showing how they were in danger of God's judgment. Same with the fornicator of 1 Cor.5...

1 Cor 5:11-13
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
KJV






Does the Holy Spirit leave us when we turn to do wickedness? You bet He does IF... we fail to repent to The LORD about the matter and refuse to correct our wicked behavior. What did you not understand about Paul saying what concord does Christ have with Belial? (2 Cor.6)



I fail to see anywhere... where you have properly answered those. Just saying the five foolish virgins were not true believers is an addition to the Matt.25 Scripture, for every indication there is that they were all ten representative of believers on Christ, awaiting the coming of the Bridegroom, which coming was given to represent His 2nd coming. Who else is expecting the 2nd coming of our Lord Jesus and planning to gather to Him, a non-believer? That's just silly.



To say that there is concord between Christ and Belial is what makes Him out to be a liar, and that's basically the idea you're pushing from men's doctrines. Why don't you go back to the OT and do a bit of study, where you will discover how some of His chosen (like king Saul) lost The Holy Spirit because of multiple times he directly disobeyed our Heavenly Father.

To even think... that a believer who turns to wickedness can still think they are 'saved' while continuing to do wickedness is the height of ignorance and rebellion against the Grace of Jesus Christ!

Gal 5:18-21
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV

Paul was very stern about the walk in Christ we are to have, as he said those who do those things WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD!

So how... could you even think... to go against what Paul said there?

Our Lord Jesus warned us about the leaven doctrines of men. And that is what you are following, and it has blinded you away from the Truth in God's Word as shown even by Apostle Paul!

Will you also say the above Galatians 5 Scripture quote is 'my' teaching and not directly from Apostle Paul, just so you can keep your tradition of men??

Don't you see your error away from Scripture on this matter?


has been created in righteousness and holiness[/B][/SIZE] is in aorist passive - passive means something has happened to you from an outside source - we don't do it.

I say preach and teach the grace of God so that we can grow up in the Lord as only grace teaches us how to live godly in this present world.

[/QUOTE]

Paul only said to remove that wicked man from their midst which was the guy that they were boasting in and Paul turned him over to satan for the destruction of the flesh - which I don't know what all that entails but it doesn't sound good.

Paul told every one of those people in Corinth that they were the righteousness of God in Christ - that they were complete in Him. - that they were sanctified and called saints - despite their behavior. Read chapter 1 in 1 Cor.

No one said there is no church discipline.

And no where does it say that the Holy Spirit leaves us because of sin - that is your own interpretation of which there are no scriptures for. It's something you made up because you don't believe when Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be with you and in you forever' John 14:16-17

You are making Jesus out to be a liar by saying that the Holy Spirit leaves us..If you want to call Jesus a liar then that is up to you. I'm a "believer" in Christ and in His finished work.

Here is a link to go to for understanding the ten virgins done by mailmandan.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-we-not-lose-our-salvation-5.html#post2681801

Here is an article that is grace-based on the finished work of Christ for Matthew 25 and the talents.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/05/19/parable-of-the-talents-matthew-25/



King Saul in the OT was not born again and sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption that's why we have a better covenant built upon better promises.

You are mixing-up the covenants and ruining the New Covenant with your lack of understanding of Jesus' work on the cross and resurrection - it would do you well to get acquainted with the New Covenant - it will bless you and help you to grow up in Christ..

I am not going against Paul - we can inherit things of the kingdom of God here on this earth and if we walk according to the flesh these will not be manifested. When you see the term "inherit the kingdom" - your religious teachings have taught you to think "it's only for going to heaven". This is where you err. True believers will be disciplined from the Lord ( child-trained in Greek ) as a son.

We don't become "un-children of God". Your perception of the Father is not remotely what He is truly like.

Jesus said the kingdom of God is within you. If you don't walk by the spirit - you will not reap the life of Christ as being manifested in your life. You talk about the Lord as if you don't know Him at all. He loves us dearly and paid a price to redeem us. he is not looking for ways to disqualify us - He Himself qualified us!

I still say preach and teach the grace of God so that we can grow up in the Lord as only grace teaches us how to live godly in this present world.

In knowing that we have "security" in Christ's perfect work,- this brings about true "maturity" in the believer that knows their loving Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. This type of a relationship is what works as it does in all relationships.

 

[LaurenTM]

HA! HA! HOO! HEE! HA! HA!!!! HEE!! HO HEE!! HA!! HA! HA!

yeah...I'm kinda like that penguin

I used to be known for saying 'let's DO something!'

shake it up a bit...no status quo LOL!

 

[LaurenTM]

JGIG regarding below:

If what you say above is true, then how did you come to find the quotes below, which are straight from sites that completely misrepresent the Grace position? I recognized the quotes below as being from Dr. Michael Brown's 'Hyper-Grace Horror Stories' (no demigoguing there, eh?!).

those quotes are in my op and I believe that is where he got them from; however, I did not get them from Brown's site...they were from an article in a magazine. I included them as illustrations of sin...not negative effects of grace because I am stating there is no hyper grace...there is only grace and sin is sin...not hyper grace

just wanted to clear that up

the issue for me is a non-starter. I grew up believing in grace as we are talking about it now...so this entire hyper development is, in my opinion, an attack of the devil, and who better to operate through then Christians

I am going to better acquaint myself with Mr Brown now

I kept thinking about all this and the vicious nature of some of the threads here...one in particular of infamy and personal motive...that generated absolutely despicable things people were saying to each other...you posted in that thread and were a voice of reason in an otherwise dirty backwash of emotional venting that had more to do with personalities than doctrine

so I decided to do my own research and what I found became, for me, a question regarding the entire source of and reasoning behind these hyper grace accusations. having a very 'churched' background and being saved at 5, what I was seeing, was that what is a perfectly normal and biblical understanding of the grace of God, has become a pivoting point for those who do not accept this grace as free...they hold on to their own understanding and refuse, utterly and completely refuse actual verses from scripture that point out their error

I can only conclude one thing on the entire matter

deception and doctrines of devils

now who is it going to come through? the world? hardly...

going to address your other post where you quoted me also

 

[DP]

Paul only said to remove that wicked man from their midst which was the guy that they were boasting in and Paul turned him over to satan for the destruction of the flesh - which I don't know what all that entails but it doesn't sound good.

We are not by Paul told what they were boasting about. One can only assume that because Paul was angry with them for not casting that wicked person away from them, their glorying he accused them of was of how they were too busy playing church when they should have examined the behavior going on among them.

Paul told every one of those people in Corinth that they were the righteousness of God in Christ - that they were complete in Him. - that they were sanctified and called saints - despite their behavior. Read chapter 1 in 1 Cor.

Actually in 1 Cor.1, Paul was also rebuking them because of envying and divisions going on among the brethren. And when one gets to to 1 Cor.5, a major problem appears with the wicked person having sex with his own mother!

So let's not play down the events when Paul issued out rebuke against sin and wickedness among the brethren, for in all his Epistles there are points he raised in those kind of issues.

No one said there is no church discipline.

And no where does it say that the Holy Spirit leaves us because of sin - that is your own interpretation of which there are no scriptures for. It's something you made up because you don't believe when Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be with you and in you forever' John 14:16-17

You are making Jesus out to be a liar by saying that the Holy Spirit leaves us..If you want to call Jesus a liar then that is up to you. I'm a "believer" in Christ and in His finished work.

I guess you forgot about the event of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5.

In Acts 28, Apostle Paul remarks of the example the Holy Ghost speaking through Esaias (Isaiah), so the gift of The Holy Ghost (or Holy Spirit per the Greek) was something that manifested among God's chosen in OT days...

Let's not hide this event of king Saul receiving the Holy Spirit (and even prophesying by It), and then God removing His Spirit from Saul because of his rebellion against Him...

1 Sam 10:10-13
10 And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.

11 And it came to pass, when all that knew him beforetime saw that, behold, he prophesied among the prophets, then the people said one to another, What is this that is come unto the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?

12 And one of the same place answered and said, But who is their father? Therefore it became a proverb, Is Saul also among the prophets?

13 And when he had made an end of prophesying, he came to the high place.
KJV

Then Saul loosing the Holy Spirit from God...

1 Sam 16:14-15
14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.
KJV


In Hebrews 6 Paul warned about those in Christ who were once enlightened, having enjoyed evidence of the gifts of the world to come putting Christ to an open shame by falling away from Jesus and then trying to renew their faith. Having been given evidence of the Holy Spirit and then later turning away to disbelief is what the unpardonable sin is about.

 

[LaurenTM]

JGIG;2723706This is a really good point: "From the responses all over this forum, it is plain to see that people do not understand grace; therefore they pick apart anything they view as a threat to their understanding as though it were an attack on the gospel itself."

To a person, I can confidently say that each one who has come out swinging hard against so-called 'Hyper-Grace' cannot accurately articulate what the Grace position actually is. This includes the theologian Dr. Michael Brown, the one who coined the term, 'Hyper-Grace', with whom I've conversed online 3 or 4 times. When the misrepresentations that he was promulgating online were pointed out to him, using quotes from his book and then presented with what 'Hyper Gracers' actually teach, he suddenly became very busy and could not/would not discuss the issues further.

as I mentioned in my previous post to you, what I was raised on...a biblical understanding of grace...has become 'unclean' and people are despising, in ignorance, the very thing that saved them. as far as Brown goes, as I said, I will have to look into him...others have mentioned him, but I have not yet looked him up

CONSISTENTLY we see statements given as facts about Grace that we do not believe nor do we teach. Furthermore, those who rail against us 'quote' teachers, but only what they've heard others who are against those teachers say those teachers have said, but won't go to the source to see what those teachers have actually said, claiming they 'don't have time for that'. Well if you don't have time to check your sources, bow out. You have NO business spreading inaccuracies.

I am uncomfortably familiar with the 'he said, she said, someone said' dodge that passes for knowledge far too often where believers are concerned. Don't bother us with the facts...just eliminate all the hard stuff and tell me what I believe. that is not Christianity and yet is is just like you say...'if you don't have the time to check your sources (or actually study the word) you have no business spreading inaccuracies.


I've done the dance against true heresy - the modern Judaizers of the Hebrew Roots Movement. I have most of an entire site addressing the false beliefs of the HRM, and when refuting a false belief, not only do I make sure that I have a thorough understanding of what they actually believe from many sources within the movement, but I also make sure to quote, providing links and context to the reader to those sources so that they may consider the evidence and decide for themselves. That is not happening here.

Grace777x70 addresses one tactic used and put it this way so well in another thread, regarding the straw-man approach:

It's like some saying "The sky is blue...isn't it lovely?"...instead someone comes and says "What?..you are a false teacher ..the sky is not green...everyone knows it's blue...."


I saw that post and it is an accurate description of the bizarre desire to twist or actually IGNORE any and all proof to the contrary of the accusations being made.

not sure if those accusing have any idea of the vitriol in some of their posts or how nasty they have become and intolerant of any viewpoint but their own?

how can you possibly misunderstand God's grace and call it dangerous and a passage to sin? well, apparently you cannot, so the spirit behind these attacks suggested a whole nother kind of grace and it seems to have caught on​

That happens a LOT in this debate, indicating that those who are heresy hunting the Grace of God don't really understand the issue. I read this quote earlier today from an article posted on FB:

"As any debate club veteran knows, if you can't make your opponent's argument for them, you don't truly grasp the issue." (source)​

I have tons more respect for someone who understands the issues and simply disagrees, but much less respect for those who demagogue without understanding simply to reinforce their position. When someone demagogues, they show that their penchant is more for their position than for what is TRUE.


-JGIG

I came across another site recently that considers itself a heresy hunter site and the defense or 'proof' of their position on various people they are calling false teachers is pathetic. is there such a thing as an amateur heresy hunter?

they may just as well have said, well I don't like the shape of his nose



thanks for the rep btw

 

[LaurenTM]

DP..... as the op of this thread, I would really appreciate you starting your own thread

you are NOT discussing the op, you consistently derail and that is a very inconsiderate trait

is there a reason you cannot take your suggestions off to your own thread?

people are having to refute what you say because of how you seem to either not understand their response or you are so busy trying to make YOUR point that no one else's matters

we are not discussing loosing the Holy Spirit or adultery

if these things are so important to you, you would be able to have any discussion you want in your own thread

 

[DP]

Hyper-Grace Movement origins:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperdispensationalism

 

[DP]

DP..... as the op of this thread, I would really appreciate you starting your own thread

you are NOT discussing the op, you consistently derail and that is a very inconsiderate trait

is there a reason you cannot take your suggestions off to your own thread?

people are having to refute what you say because of how you seem to either not understand their response or you are so busy trying to make YOUR point that no one else's matters

we are not discussing loosing the Holy Spirit or adultery

if these things are so important to you, you would be able to have any discussion you want in your own thread

What I've been discussing is very... relevant to revealing the Hyper-Grace Movement as a doctrine of men, and not Biblical.

And most... of my postings have been in RESPONSE to false accusations by others, and your's apparently is just another meaningless one.

 

[LaurenTM]

What I've been discussing is very... relevant to revealing the Hyper-Grace Movement as a doctrine of men, and not Biblical.

And most... of my postings have been in RESPONSE to false accusations by others, and your's apparently is just another meaningless one.

again, as the op, I have requested you have respect for the topic and it seems that was a challenge to you and you are unable to do so

you defend your off topic posts by blaming others and you go further and post a link in order to stir up controversy even more when this forum is already inundated with exactly what I am trying to avoid in order to have a conversation that does not focus on the word hyper, but examines the phenomena from a different viewpoint

 

[Grace777x70]

We are not by Paul told what they were boasting about. One can only assume that because Paul was angry with them for not casting that wicked person away from them, their glorying he accused them of was of how they were too busy playing church when they should have examined the behavior going on among them.



Actually in 1 Cor.1, Paul was also rebuking them because of envying and divisions going on among the brethren. And when one gets to to 1 Cor.5, a major problem appears with the wicked person having sex with his own mother!

So let's not play down the events when Paul issued out rebuke against sin and wickedness among the brethren, for in all his Epistles there are points he raised in those kind of issues.

(snip)

I will deal wit the other stuff in your post but first let's deal with 1 Cor and Paul. And no one is saying sin is ok..that's in your mind not in any grace believers mind.

Paul told the Corinthians who they were in Christ..then corrected their behavior...he didn't say you were all unsaved now...

..he told them who they were in Christ..saints..they have His righteousness, holiness..etc.

These are the very same people that were causing divisions and strife amongst each other. Men going to have sex with the temple prostitutes, believers taking each other to court, people getting drunk at Communion..etc. Paul called them carnal Christians and yet at the same time called them "saints" - that they have the righteousness of God, that they were complete in Him, that they had the mind of Christ, that they were holy...etc...that Christ was confirmed as being in them.

Then Paul goes on to say in verse 8 " who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Paul gives them their true identity in Christ then goes on to describe what this true life in Christ will look like. Paul says later on to "Awake to righteousness and sin not" This is a call to see who you are in Christ and in seeing this - sin will fall off of us like dead leaves off a tree.

1 Corinthians 1:1-9 (NASB)

[SUP]2 [/SUP] To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

[SUP]4 [/SUP] I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,

[SUP]6 [/SUP] even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,

[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,

[SUP]8 [/SUP] who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

[SUP]31 [/SUP] so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

 

[Grace777x70]

Seeing as Lauren wants to only discuss the OP - I will refrain from answering any more of DP's questions that are off topic. If he starts another thread I will answer him in there.

I apologize Lauren for answering his posts in this thread as it really shows the validity of your OP in manifestation.

 

[LaurenTM]

ok...thanks for understanding

I don't mind some off topic stuff; but the persistent off topic address to the same word that has been rehashed ad infinitum with people just talking past each other is a deliberate attempt to derail IMO

I thought JGIG brought up some interesting points with reference to origin and I am convinced myself that there is a serious false teaching going on by adding the word hyper in front of grace and then claiming people are sinning because of that



anyway...thanks

 

[JGIG]

0

I read that and it is so telling that the only comments left on there is from Peterjens which we all know here doesn't even come close to accurately describing what grace believers believe about the Lord Jesus Christ and His glorious grace and love for us.

I find it "very telling" that your comments were "wiped clean". Anyone can bash someone else when they are not allowed to refute the accusations.

Telling indeed. There were THIRTY-FOUR PAGES OF COMMENTS on that article, and only a single comment shows up.

I find that the ones that are saying we need "godliness" and to walk in purity and righteousness are in fact the very ones that exhibit malice and slander and name-calling and they think this is perfectly ok. It is so ironic to see this in operation....talk about a license to sin!

Great post JGIG - it reveals a lot to us. Thank you!

Thanks, Grace777x70!

 

[RobbyEarl]

The difference is between being saved and living in victory. Yes, if your saved you can and will sin, it doesn't mean that you have lost your salvation, many Christians are drunks and hooked on drugs (prescription) many beat their kids and cheat on their spouse. Yet, continuing in this can lead to the loss of your salvation. That's why Paul said that our faith must be placed in the work of the cross and why Zechariah said "it is not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit Saith The Lord". We can only live in victory by the Holy Spirit and He will only acknowledge faith in the work of the Cross.

 

[PeterJens]

what He accomplished at the Cross was ENOUGH. It is a FINISHED Work.

Language and ethics.

The two groups do not share the same definitions so each can claim to their audience to be saying
the truth.

1 Sin - defined as the moral law of God, or the law of the Spirit, written on our hearts.
2 Sin - a constant failure, designed to keep us humble and dependent on Christ

1 Righteousness - The ability of a believer to do the right thing and not sin
2 Righteousness - Christs imputed righteousness because we will never walk correctly

1 Repentance - Turning from sin, recognising its cost and doing the right thing
2 Repentance - changing ones mind, agreeing with God

1 Confession - verbalising sinful behaviour and the desire to walk correctly
2 Confession - talking through issues

1 Forgiveness - Accepting Christs sacrifice on the cross as payment for our sin
2 Forgiveness - recognising we are already forgiven.

1 Sin => repentance, confession, forgiveness => a righteous walk in Christ
2 Sin => changing your mind, verbalising this change => dependency on Christ righteousness

HG appears to be emphasising failure, being caught in sin is our fate, but we are
free in Christ and saved.

Traditional faith emphasises the slow walk to victory and righteousness, that we
can be blameless before God empowered by love in our hearts.

I see from a traditional view HG is saying sin does not matter, because one st forever bound
by it, taken to the level of hyper-legalism, because it is just defining dependency, but it never
leads to Hell.

In HG eyes sin matters 100% because it makes you dependent on Christ.

These in essence are two different gospels, one talking about a step by step sanctification
and growth in walking with Jesus, and HG on dependency in Christ, always being in the
Kingdom, and always falling short.

To mitigate failure, in HG one has a new heavenly identity, which is perfect and fully formed,
which the believer just needs to identify and the sinful passions will just die.
This is similar to the gnostic ideas, and suffers the same failures. It looks down upon righteousness
and the walk of faith, because that is self-righteousness and DIY changing your heart. In this
ethic you just are in Christ and He does everything.

I hope this helps.

 

[bikerchaz]

Some thoughts on the hyper grace threads and my conclusions



I suggest that whatever took a hold of this group of believers, was not the grace of God.


and here are a couple of more:




I may be more concerned now then I was before I started looking into these claims about so called hyper grace.

What I am finding out, is that people who have basically turned from God to live a lifestyle of sin and decadence are being labelled as hyper grace.

I don't 'follow' Joseph Prince or anyone really. I do watch certain speakers or teachers and have a very solid background in scripture and have been involved in ministry myself and it is not perfection or all about joy and love behind the scenes. The only thing I can say about that, is while I have never been involved in a 'stink' in leadership, I've witnessed enough of it, as well as the rumors, jealousy and backstabbing that sometimes goes on.

People condoling sin and getting drunk, committing adultery and cursing others is hardly the grace of God. So why are people calling it hyper grace?

Personally, I don't think ANYONE needs or can or should, point fingers at others and blame grace for sin.

Calling the sinful acts of people who have turned their backs on the gospel and have accepted a lie, HYPER GRACE is utter nonsense.

Let's call it what it is. IT IS SIN.

If a person depends on others for their relationship with God, sooner or later they are going to crash and burn. It's a law of God. God says 'cursed are those who trust in flesh and make it their strength.

Thus says the LORD, "Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind And makes flesh his strength, And whose heart turns away from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:5

If your relationship with God is THROUGH someone else, YOU DON'T HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD! so stop saying that you do! Throughout scripture, God begs...yes, literally begs...people to put their trust IN HIM.

Heresy hunters are a fact of life now and the web has given rise to more self proclaimed experts and 'Bible teachers' and self named prophets than the world has ever seen or God has ever called.

I have seen way too much on these forums concerning hyper grace and have been labelled hyper grace myself by people who are shooting in the dark at anything that they think moves.

I sense both fear and anger in many as the church is, in my humble opinion, convulsing and struggling to keep up with all the 'stuff' that is out there in a vain attempt to keep up with the masses and serve the people what they want and when they want it.

But you know, all God says about that is this:

For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, The fountain of living waters, To hew for themselves cisterns, Broken cisterns That can hold no water. Jeremiah 2:13


If you are depending on a teacher, a pastor or a best friend to feed your relationship with Jesus, you have a broken cistern on your hands. I'm not talking about counselling, or prayer or any other need. I am talking about your PERSONAL relationship with God wherein you call Him Father and He calls you His child.

If you reject the Holy Spirit, you are rejecting the living waters.

You, should be a person who seeks God with all of your heart...God says that is when you will find Him..when you put your heart into it and not just lip service.

Call sin what it is and stop calling grace hyper.

Again, acting like the world is not hyper grace...it is sin and should be recognized as such.


I will also tell anyone reading this, that I don't really care about personal attacks or having my 'motive' for making this thread questioned or being called a hypocrite or anything else.

Christians have already done about all they can do to make me turn from God, so I get where some of you are coming from.

However, God is merciful; He looks on the heart. That, is the terrain of God so if you judge me, that is doubt my sincerity here, I'll leave it up to God as to how and when He has your heart revealed to you.

Have respect for others and consider your words if you want to respond.

Discuss the topic and not the people in the thread.

Thanks

I have read most of this thread, I have seen it on here a while and have waited for it to stop growing. I have one thing to say to the op, I hear your heart.

There is no one on here at CC I would not break bread with for "life is in the blood", I do have one concern though, why call grace "hyper grace"? I have a few concerns within Christendom and all because they are not scriptural, like "going to heaven" or "going to hell", the "Trinity" and there other labels we all use sometimes, they really irk me. Why do we use them? does God not make the point clear within His word so much that we have to add to it 'HYPER'

We all know or aware of how satan "prowls about looking to devour". his hate is so great that the smallest chink or thoughtless word gives him access to the unwary heart. I don't know what it is like in Canada but England is full of really nice houses and small apartment blocks that used to be church buildings. The decay within what the world sees as 'Church' and the immoral acceptance of the actions of some (not all) within christianity (small c intended) promotes unbelief.

The intolerance within some 'new age churches' (again small c intended) against sinful actions, when those committing them need to see the love of Jesus and not be made to jump through hoops to get to him, makes a reaction within the people of this world who satan hold as his own so they distrust anything to do with Jesus.

Jesus is life, when we get close His light and love fills us to overflow, any darkness within us gets drowned out in His light. There is no shadow to Jesus light and its this light that will impact the world for good and God. Its not us its Jesus all for and everything is all Jesus.

Grace is what He imparts to allow us to shine like 'the noon day' and through His grace, because it belongs to Jesus and is freely given, we can see a difference in the world. When the lost accept Jesus because of the light generated by this grace in us, then the Spirit of God will act within them and God will sort out their homosexuality not me, God will sort put their addictions not me, God will bring them to a place of peace within Himself because of Jesus and by the grace He freely gives.

Sorry if I rambled on a bit but I will ask one thing, I know what grace is, what is Hyper grace?

 

[PeterJens]

I find that the ones that are saying we need "godliness" and to walk in purity and righteousness are in fact the very ones that exhibit malice and slander and name-calling and they think this is perfectly ok. It is so ironic to see this in operation....talk about a license to sin!

What is sin? I think the above paragraph illustrates the problem HG followers have.

If I express my opinion about the heresy within taking sin to an extreme, saying walking
righteously is impossible, and that pushing all future sin is forgiven and not relevant to
our fellowship with Christ is now malice, slander and name-calling summarises it 100%.

This illustrates when two faiths come together with the same words but different meanings
and implications, it gets very confusing.

To a Jew to say Jesus is God is blasphemy. To a muslim to say Mohammed is not a prophet
and Jesus is the only way to God, is blasphemy.

I would take the above ideas seriously if we actually followed the same morals, theology and
foundation I follow, but they constantly show they do not.

 

[LaurenTM]

I have read most of this thread, I have seen it on here a while and have waited for it to stop growing. I have one thing to say to the op, I hear your heart.

There is no one on here at CC I would not break bread with for "life is in the blood", I do have one concern though, why call grace "hyper grace"? I have a few concerns within Christendom and all because they are not scriptural, like "going to heaven" or "going to hell", the "Trinity" and there other labels we all use sometimes, they really irk me. Why do we use them? does God not make the point clear within His word so much that we have to add to it 'HYPER'

We all know or aware of how satan "prowls about looking to devour". his hate is so great that the smallest chink or thoughtless word gives him access to the unwary heart. I don't know what it is like in Canada but England is full of really nice houses and small apartment blocks that used to be church buildings. The decay within what the world sees as 'Church' and the immoral acceptance of the actions of some (not all) within christianity (small c intended) promotes unbelief.

The intolerance within some 'new age churches' (again small c intended) against sinful actions, when those committing them need to see the love of Jesus and not be made to jump through hoops to get to him, makes a reaction within the people of this world who satan hold as his own so they distrust anything to do with Jesus.

Jesus is life, when we get close His light and love fills us to overflow, any darkness within us gets drowned out in His light. There is no shadow to Jesus light and its this light that will impact the world for good and God. Its not us its Jesus all for and everything is all Jesus.

Grace is what He imparts to allow us to shine like 'the noon day' and through His grace, because it belongs to Jesus and is freely given, we can see a difference in the world. When the lost accept Jesus because of the light generated by this grace in us, then the Spirit of God will act within them and God will sort out their homosexuality not me, God will sort put their addictions not me, God will bring them to a place of peace within Himself because of Jesus and by the grace He freely gives.

Sorry if I rambled on a bit but I will ask one thing, I know what grace is, what is Hyper grace?

I read that one sentence above, biker, closed my eyes and said 'thank you Jesus'.

I started this op with a view to a different discussion then has been had regarding grace and the unfortunate addition of the word hyper in front.

Broken cisterns that hold no water. If we are broken, if we cannot hold the life-giving water of the Holy Spirit, then what do we have to offer?

I suggest bickering, slander, opposition to the truth, lies, backbiting, misunderstandings, and every other vice of the human soul without God and His grace.

In short, we have nothing to offer.

We need an oasis of GRACE in this world. This world is on fire and we are all feeling the heat and the impossible task of containing evil.

Turning to God and allowing Him to peel back the layers of whatever separates us from Him is the only hope any of us have.

Thank you for your post biker. Thank you that you took the time to read. Thank you that you understood what I am trying to say. This is grace. This, IS God's grace.

We all fall short of the glory of God. That is a relief to me because I do not know how I would EVER come close without Him holding out His hand and extending His grace, mercy and healing. I have no heart left without my Savior.

For me, the less emotion in my understanding, the better and yet, it is all about our heart in the end anyway.

There is no hyper grace biker, but I think you already know that.

hugs in Christ and bless you brother!

 

[DP]

again, as the op, I have requested you have respect for the topic and it seems that was a challenge to you and you are unable to do so

you defend your off topic posts by blaming others and you go further and post a link in order to stir up controversy even more when this forum is already inundated with exactly what I am trying to avoid in order to have a conversation that does not focus on the word hyper, but examines the phenomena from a different viewpoint

That's insulting, unwarranted, and bearing false witness. Off topic is playing around with men's doctrines which the majority supporting the doctrine do here, instead of heeding the Scriptures simply as written. That's where the real controversy lay.

 

[Grandpa]

I have read most of this thread, I have seen it on here a while and have waited for it to stop growing. I have one thing to say to the op, I hear your heart.

There is no one on here at CC I would not break bread with for "life is in the blood", I do have one concern though, why call grace "hyper grace"? I have a few concerns within Christendom and all because they are not scriptural, like "going to heaven" or "going to hell", the "Trinity" and there other labels we all use sometimes, they really irk me. Why do we use them? does God not make the point clear within His word so much that we have to add to it 'HYPER'

We all know or aware of how satan "prowls about looking to devour". his hate is so great that the smallest chink or thoughtless word gives him access to the unwary heart. I don't know what it is like in Canada but England is full of really nice houses and small apartment blocks that used to be church buildings. The decay within what the world sees as 'Church' and the immoral acceptance of the actions of some (not all) within christianity (small c intended) promotes unbelief.

The intolerance within some 'new age churches' (again small c intended) against sinful actions, when those committing them need to see the love of Jesus and not be made to jump through hoops to get to him, makes a reaction within the people of this world who satan hold as his own so they distrust anything to do with Jesus.

Jesus is life, when we get close His light and love fills us to overflow, any darkness within us gets drowned out in His light. There is no shadow to Jesus light and its this light that will impact the world for good and God. Its not us its Jesus all for and everything is all Jesus.

Grace is what He imparts to allow us to shine like 'the noon day' and through His grace, because it belongs to Jesus and is freely given, we can see a difference in the world. When the lost accept Jesus because of the light generated by this grace in us, then the Spirit of God will act within them and God will sort out their homosexuality not me, God will sort put their addictions not me, God will bring them to a place of peace within Himself because of Jesus and by the grace He freely gives.

Sorry if I rambled on a bit but I will ask one thing, I know what grace is, what is Hyper grace?

People use the term hyper-grace as an excuse for legalism.

They can dismiss grace and follow their own ideas and self righteousness.


Legalism, self-righteousness and leaning on our own understanding isn't what Christianity is.

We don't have any righteousness without Christ.

We don't have any understanding without Christ.

We don't ever keep any law without Christ.

Having a contempt for Grace does not come from the Holy Spirit, that should be fairly obvious.