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Where do people find the time (the hours and hours) to learn alllll about topics they hate?? What drives people on youtube to spend more hours and hours making disparaging videos about all the people they don't like and those people and things they disagree with? If I spend time rehearsing and remembering the things in life I disagree with., that I'm not uplifted by, I'm soon very depressed and empty.
The reason I focus and NEED to focus on Jesus love is because His love is what lifts me up out of this sinful and fallen hopeless world that has no ability to do anything steadfast or lasting. Only what we learn and do for Christ will last and benefit and feed us., so it's always time well spent.
I can focus (dwell) on Jesus and His love.,and the Bible says he who dwells in the secret place of the Most High, will abide IN THE Shadow of the Almighty. If I were to focus 'dwell' on the limitations of human beings (including myself) I would not be in that secret place of the Most High. I would be easy pickins for the enemy., I'd be defeated and good for nothing. I want to abide in the shadow of the Almighty., not in the shadow of negative words.,gossip and slander where the world dwells.
We humans have our limits and failures in life. When the GOOD NEWS IS: God so LOVED the world that HE GAVE His only begotten SON., that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life., why are Christians soaking in something else???? To what end?????
The reason I focus and NEED to focus on Jesus love is because His love is what lifts me up out of this sinful and fallen hopeless world that has no ability to do anything steadfast or lasting. Only what we learn and do for Christ will last and benefit and feed us., so it's always time well spent.
I can focus (dwell) on Jesus and His love.,and the Bible says he who dwells in the secret place of the Most High, will abide IN THE Shadow of the Almighty. If I were to focus 'dwell' on the limitations of human beings (including myself) I would not be in that secret place of the Most High. I would be easy pickins for the enemy., I'd be defeated and good for nothing. I want to abide in the shadow of the Almighty., not in the shadow of negative words.,gossip and slander where the world dwells.
We humans have our limits and failures in life. When the GOOD NEWS IS: God so LOVED the world that HE GAVE His only begotten SON., that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life., why are Christians soaking in something else???? To what end?????
I would like to believe your understanding. The reason why I do not is simply what HG believers have declared themselves about what they accept. It is possible as I have repeated before to say the same sentences as I would use but mean something very different.
Now I set out my theology, simply without double speak. HG people do not and desire to appear one way but actually believe something very different. There argument is they do not want to appear to cause offence to religious people, rather than be open and honest.
After much interaction the more straight human emotional interaction with Christ is labelled as humanist self righteous behaviour. Or more recently the idea I am saying you are born again only at the end of faith.
Now the differences are obvious, and accepted, so saying now they do not exist is like rubbishing the real conversations and positions taken over the past 6 months.
Now the idea of walking in righteousness and purity is ridiculed as perfectionism heresy. Once people have used this argument you cannot then say they believe it is possible or even admirable. It is rather like seeing someone in a hard place panicing and trying every argument though contradictatory to get out of this hard place.
In the end we either through sanctification become like Jesus in our walk, or our walk can be perfect from day 1.
Now because my description of HG is not complimentary, obviously I must have it wrong.
Now I set out my theology, simply without double speak. HG people do not and desire to appear one way but actually believe something very different. There argument is they do not want to appear to cause offence to religious people, rather than be open and honest.
After much interaction the more straight human emotional interaction with Christ is labelled as humanist self righteous behaviour. Or more recently the idea I am saying you are born again only at the end of faith.
Now the differences are obvious, and accepted, so saying now they do not exist is like rubbishing the real conversations and positions taken over the past 6 months.
Now the idea of walking in righteousness and purity is ridiculed as perfectionism heresy. Once people have used this argument you cannot then say they believe it is possible or even admirable. It is rather like seeing someone in a hard place panicing and trying every argument though contradictatory to get out of this hard place.
In the end we either through sanctification become like Jesus in our walk, or our walk can be perfect from day 1.
Now because my description of HG is not complimentary, obviously I must have it wrong.
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Hyper
There is a core lie being told here. Saying simple believers are evil, hypocritical legalists
is not in any shape of form passive, kind, gentle, but judgemental, agressive and an attempt
at total control.
By declaring believers as evil, and should be oppossed and ejected from fellowships, by its
nature this movement is divisive.
Now time and again people literally stumble into these believers who then decide to overthrow
and ridicule all they hold dear. It is not their view of faith, but the only view of faith, and
everyone else is the cause of the demise of the faith.
It is no surprise the body of Christ is rising up and responding to these people with a detailed
documented defence of their faith and rejection of this new agressive and divisive forms of religion.
My experience is if you just share your faith position it is insulting, slander, malice, hatred, envy
or anything that might make a good christian into an evil worker of satan.
The problem is also the reality of what they are claiming and attacking is so full of double speak,
a lot of people have no idea where they stand. A real hearts and mind situation is now going on
and the HG movement morphing as its more extreme declarations are falling under criticism and
detailed analysis and is being found wanting.
There is a core lie being told here. Saying simple believers are evil, hypocritical legalists
is not in any shape of form passive, kind, gentle, but judgemental, agressive and an attempt
at total control.
By declaring believers as evil, and should be oppossed and ejected from fellowships, by its
nature this movement is divisive.
Now time and again people literally stumble into these believers who then decide to overthrow
and ridicule all they hold dear. It is not their view of faith, but the only view of faith, and
everyone else is the cause of the demise of the faith.
It is no surprise the body of Christ is rising up and responding to these people with a detailed
documented defence of their faith and rejection of this new agressive and divisive forms of religion.
My experience is if you just share your faith position it is insulting, slander, malice, hatred, envy
or anything that might make a good christian into an evil worker of satan.
The problem is also the reality of what they are claiming and attacking is so full of double speak,
a lot of people have no idea where they stand. A real hearts and mind situation is now going on
and the HG movement morphing as its more extreme declarations are falling under criticism and
detailed analysis and is being found wanting.
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While I disagree with Dr. Brown's theology about Grace and the security of the believer, I don't question his motives (well, maybe a little when he has a new book coming out and ramps up his 'Hyper-Grace' rhetoric). Here's part of one of the comments I wrote that are no longer on Dr. Brown's site:
JGIG said: February 04, 2015 at 6:42 am
Dr. Brown, Thank you for accepting my apology and for yours, as well, also accepted.
I understand that you felt a need to write the book, ‘Hyper-Grace’ – one does not take on such a task unless one feels a need to do so.
That’s already ground that’s been covered. You were hearing bad stories from those in your camp about those who preach Grace – we get it. As a believer for 42 years, I’ve had a lot of time to observe the different streams of faith in the Body, as well. While I’ve seen continued striving and angst and mixed fruit (some good, some bad) amongst believers in streams which preach a mixture of Grace and Law, conditional security, holiness, Lordship salvation, etc., I’ve seen healing, rest, and good fruit from those who embrace the simplicity of the Gospel of Grace. There are some of those folks in your ‘camp’, btw; they’re the quiet, peaceful believers who are loving those around them well =o).
Are there those who see Grace as a license to sin? I’m sure there are, just as there are those who remain in a continual cycle of sin, repent, confess, sin, repent, confess do – also seen as a license to sin by many, because, hey, one can do whatever as long as they repent and confess, right? How is that less of a license to sin than Grace is?
What I see as a major difference in the two camps is the transparency that exists in the Grace camp; you may be more aware of sinning in folks who are walking in Grace because they can be honest about what’s going on in their lives. As Rob Rufus likes to say, when you shine a light [Grace] into an attic and see all the dust and dirt there [sin], it’s not Grace that *caused* the sin, or looks past it as though it doesn’t exist, but Grace exposes it – but it exposes it in a redemptive context of love and forgiveness, not in a context of fear of punishment like law does, where if you don’t keep ‘short accounts with God’ and then get straightened out and fly right, there are eternal consequences.
And I think that is a big part of why you do what you do – you see your perception of the Grace message to be dangerous because you believe that believers are at risk of going to hell if they embrace Grace and then have unrepented-of, unconfessed sins in their lives, resulting in unforgiveness and ultimately separation from God. Your motive is one of love and protection of the sheep, I believe, and at its core, commendable. I think if we distilled the conflict between your position and the Grace position, it would boil down to the issue of eternal security vs. conditional security. Just my observation and perhaps fodder for further comments.
I and others who embrace the Grace message hate seeing when believers engage in dumb and destructive behavior. It dishonors God and does not further the Kingdom. These folks are impotent; they have Life, but are not imparting it to others (being Fruitful).
We want to see them walking in Grace and Truth and experiencing the Fruit of love, peace, patience, etc. that being led by the Spirit and not by the flesh produces. That’s why we consistently point them to Christ and His Work and who they are in Him instead of pointing them to their sin and what they need to ‘do’ about it. Here’s why, and I’m guessing you would agree with this: it is in Christ where we find the Grace to say ‘no’ to ungodliness and learn to live upright lives (from Titus 2:11-14). And spiritually healthy, Fruit-bearing believers will naturally reproduce, bringing the Good News to those around them.
Alas, 'tis the nature of forums, FB, etc. Folks can push the limits of acceptable discourse because they are more or less anonymous. If we were all in a room discussing these issues, the dialogue might be a bit more civil. If we were in each others' lives, our respective fruit would be apparent and part of our testimonies. But we do the best we can to communicate effectively what we believe using this medium, such as it is.
I agree - their argument is against something, but it isn't grace, because grace isn't dangerous and it doesn't lead to sin!
And I get so weary of the misrepresentations of the misperceptions! bleh
Unfortunately, there are a lot of those types of folks out there
.
They don't believe that believers can have unity unless they also have uniformity. They don't grasp the concept of the Body and its parts.
-JGIG
JGIG said: February 04, 2015 at 6:42 am
Dr. Brown, Thank you for accepting my apology and for yours, as well, also accepted.
I understand that you felt a need to write the book, ‘Hyper-Grace’ – one does not take on such a task unless one feels a need to do so.
That’s already ground that’s been covered. You were hearing bad stories from those in your camp about those who preach Grace – we get it. As a believer for 42 years, I’ve had a lot of time to observe the different streams of faith in the Body, as well. While I’ve seen continued striving and angst and mixed fruit (some good, some bad) amongst believers in streams which preach a mixture of Grace and Law, conditional security, holiness, Lordship salvation, etc., I’ve seen healing, rest, and good fruit from those who embrace the simplicity of the Gospel of Grace. There are some of those folks in your ‘camp’, btw; they’re the quiet, peaceful believers who are loving those around them well =o).
Are there those who see Grace as a license to sin? I’m sure there are, just as there are those who remain in a continual cycle of sin, repent, confess, sin, repent, confess do – also seen as a license to sin by many, because, hey, one can do whatever as long as they repent and confess, right? How is that less of a license to sin than Grace is?
What I see as a major difference in the two camps is the transparency that exists in the Grace camp; you may be more aware of sinning in folks who are walking in Grace because they can be honest about what’s going on in their lives. As Rob Rufus likes to say, when you shine a light [Grace] into an attic and see all the dust and dirt there [sin], it’s not Grace that *caused* the sin, or looks past it as though it doesn’t exist, but Grace exposes it – but it exposes it in a redemptive context of love and forgiveness, not in a context of fear of punishment like law does, where if you don’t keep ‘short accounts with God’ and then get straightened out and fly right, there are eternal consequences.
And I think that is a big part of why you do what you do – you see your perception of the Grace message to be dangerous because you believe that believers are at risk of going to hell if they embrace Grace and then have unrepented-of, unconfessed sins in their lives, resulting in unforgiveness and ultimately separation from God. Your motive is one of love and protection of the sheep, I believe, and at its core, commendable. I think if we distilled the conflict between your position and the Grace position, it would boil down to the issue of eternal security vs. conditional security. Just my observation and perhaps fodder for further comments.
I and others who embrace the Grace message hate seeing when believers engage in dumb and destructive behavior. It dishonors God and does not further the Kingdom. These folks are impotent; they have Life, but are not imparting it to others (being Fruitful).
We want to see them walking in Grace and Truth and experiencing the Fruit of love, peace, patience, etc. that being led by the Spirit and not by the flesh produces. That’s why we consistently point them to Christ and His Work and who they are in Him instead of pointing them to their sin and what they need to ‘do’ about it. Here’s why, and I’m guessing you would agree with this: it is in Christ where we find the Grace to say ‘no’ to ungodliness and learn to live upright lives (from Titus 2:11-14). And spiritually healthy, Fruit-bearing believers will naturally reproduce, bringing the Good News to those around them.
Alas, 'tis the nature of forums, FB, etc. Folks can push the limits of acceptable discourse because they are more or less anonymous. If we were all in a room discussing these issues, the dialogue might be a bit more civil. If we were in each others' lives, our respective fruit would be apparent and part of our testimonies. But we do the best we can to communicate effectively what we believe using this medium, such as it is.
I agree - their argument is against something, but it isn't grace, because grace isn't dangerous and it doesn't lead to sin!
And I get so weary of the misrepresentations of the misperceptions! bleh
Unfortunately, there are a lot of those types of folks out there
. They don't believe that believers can have unity unless they also have uniformity. They don't grasp the concept of the Body and its parts.
-JGIG
I'm guessing that's what happened. I've interacted with folks in the HRM that have also scrubbed content when it examines what they're actually saying and how it measures up to Scripture. In those situations, I usually make a copy of my comments (and theirs, if necessary) for future reference.
I really thought, since Dr. Brown is considered to be an integral preacher with a well-known ministry that 'scrubbing' wouldn't be an issue with him. Apparently I was wrong. I did comment on some Charisma Magazine articles that he wrote, as well; I may go see if I had repeated those comments there. Dr. Brown often put his articles on both Charisma Magazine and his .org site; I don't remember if I commented in both places.
As for PeterJens comment, wow. I read it and just wow. I'm tellin' y'all, alternate universe! His comments were a complete departure from reality.
-JGIG
I really thought, since Dr. Brown is considered to be an integral preacher with a well-known ministry that 'scrubbing' wouldn't be an issue with him. Apparently I was wrong. I did comment on some Charisma Magazine articles that he wrote, as well; I may go see if I had repeated those comments there. Dr. Brown often put his articles on both Charisma Magazine and his .org site; I don't remember if I commented in both places.
As for PeterJens comment, wow. I read it and just wow. I'm tellin' y'all, alternate universe! His comments were a complete departure from reality.
-JGIG
No one is accusing Peter of scrubbing the comments on Dr. Brown's site. I'm guessing that Peter has gone a-hunting for those who preach against 'Hyper Grace' and commented on Dr. Brown's site with his 'insight'. I'm also guessing he had no idea that there had been previous comments there. He was a reader and commentor, not an administrator of the site. We do understand that fact.
As for Peter's growth, he mixes in good stuff with totally off stuff. That's why his posts are so infuriating - he is a master of passive-aggressive dialogue, claiming love and unity and righteousness and overcoming sin, while in the same post completely misrepresenting what me and other posters say/believe and then inviting we who are mature, committed, in-love-with-God and living fruitful lives believers that we need to be converted so we won't go to hell.
This is a consistent pattern, not having gotten better since December.
-JGIG
As for Peter's growth, he mixes in good stuff with totally off stuff. That's why his posts are so infuriating - he is a master of passive-aggressive dialogue, claiming love and unity and righteousness and overcoming sin, while in the same post completely misrepresenting what me and other posters say/believe and then inviting we who are mature, committed, in-love-with-God and living fruitful lives believers that we need to be converted so we won't go to hell.
This is a consistent pattern, not having gotten better since December.
-JGIG
He made disparaging comments about US, not about CC. Here's his comment. I've organized the format to make it more readable, but have not altered the content:
PeterJens posted a comment · Jun 20, 2016
I have been discussing hyper-grace on a christian web site with Hyper-grace followers. My conclusion is that it is in essence a mystic heresy within Christian thought.
1. New birth you receive a new eternal heart from heaven that can never be lost
2. Walking in faith is just walking in this new heart, while the body leads to sin
3. Hyper-legalism means you can never be righteous or do good things
4. All future sin is forgiven so repentance, confession and geting right with God are irrelevent
5. Fear is now sin, because everything is sorted so fear of God is unbelief
6. Traditional christians are the enemy legalists blocking faith and relying on self righteousness.
7. The law and sermon on the mount are only to show failure and sin
8. God alone changes people, the believer has no responsibility for their walk
9. Anything you do is of self and therefore evil
The problem with this faith is there is no way out. Once you accept its premise, sin is not an issue even though you sin, you are by definition hard hearted, blind to right and wrong, and a victim of your own emotions.
Talking about love and righteousness is just the enemy, only power and mystical experiences matter.
The pay day is God gives you health and wealth, domination and success in this world, you just have to trust Him, He will make you dreams come true. It is no longer Gods will, but you as children of God, exercising your rights as creative beings in this world with command authority.
At various points preachers will say Gods authority no longer exists in the earth, you have rights over Him. I would not call this christian, by mystic christian. It takes away the responsibility on the believer to follow Christ and obey His commandments, you obviously cannot, it is up to God to bring that about.
It takes the beauty of Christs love and says people are unredeemably lost, so you must rely on mystical influence to do Gods will.
I have tried to talk about love, morality, guilt, sin, getting right with God, knowing love overcoming sin, but nothing got through. The words, intention etc are just not there.
Most are jaded failed legalists who tried to follow God to the letter but missed love and freedom, so junked it all for this worldly compromise. And because the junked this legalist burden they found massive emotional release, while every day being condemned as sinning constantly ( which is mainly self invented sins ).
It is a prison of their own making because they cannot dis-believe in Christ, but want an end to this guilt torment. (source)
So according to PeterJens, us Grace-folk are in 'a prison of our own making because we cannot dis-believe in Christ, but want an end to this guilt torment.'
Guilt torment? Really? Prison? He could not be more off-base. The above comment was posted 40 days ago. Do you really think he's changed his mind about the above?
Peter - want to weigh in here?
-JGIG
PeterJens posted a comment · Jun 20, 2016
I have been discussing hyper-grace on a christian web site with Hyper-grace followers. My conclusion is that it is in essence a mystic heresy within Christian thought.
1. New birth you receive a new eternal heart from heaven that can never be lost
2. Walking in faith is just walking in this new heart, while the body leads to sin
3. Hyper-legalism means you can never be righteous or do good things
4. All future sin is forgiven so repentance, confession and geting right with God are irrelevent
5. Fear is now sin, because everything is sorted so fear of God is unbelief
6. Traditional christians are the enemy legalists blocking faith and relying on self righteousness.
7. The law and sermon on the mount are only to show failure and sin
8. God alone changes people, the believer has no responsibility for their walk
9. Anything you do is of self and therefore evil
The problem with this faith is there is no way out. Once you accept its premise, sin is not an issue even though you sin, you are by definition hard hearted, blind to right and wrong, and a victim of your own emotions.
Talking about love and righteousness is just the enemy, only power and mystical experiences matter.
The pay day is God gives you health and wealth, domination and success in this world, you just have to trust Him, He will make you dreams come true. It is no longer Gods will, but you as children of God, exercising your rights as creative beings in this world with command authority.
At various points preachers will say Gods authority no longer exists in the earth, you have rights over Him. I would not call this christian, by mystic christian. It takes away the responsibility on the believer to follow Christ and obey His commandments, you obviously cannot, it is up to God to bring that about.
It takes the beauty of Christs love and says people are unredeemably lost, so you must rely on mystical influence to do Gods will.
I have tried to talk about love, morality, guilt, sin, getting right with God, knowing love overcoming sin, but nothing got through. The words, intention etc are just not there.
Most are jaded failed legalists who tried to follow God to the letter but missed love and freedom, so junked it all for this worldly compromise. And because the junked this legalist burden they found massive emotional release, while every day being condemned as sinning constantly ( which is mainly self invented sins ).
It is a prison of their own making because they cannot dis-believe in Christ, but want an end to this guilt torment. (source)
So according to PeterJens, us Grace-folk are in 'a prison of our own making because we cannot dis-believe in Christ, but want an end to this guilt torment.'
Guilt torment? Really? Prison? He could not be more off-base. The above comment was posted 40 days ago. Do you really think he's changed his mind about the above?
Peter - want to weigh in here?
-JGIG
So many commentors have written to me and told me how much they've learned from the comments after the posts on my site. Two things are accomplished there: Discussion and interaction. Discussion of the points, and the tone of the interaction, which readers really pick up on. I love having lots of comments on my site - they are so helpful.
When I see scrubbing it's usually when the OP is proven wrong by using contextual Scripture and/or the owner of the site (or his/her faithful followers) have become harsh/mean/insulting in their tone, further proving the kind of fruit that their stream of belief is producing. They often recognize it and *poof*. Scrub-a-dub-dub!
-JGIG
When I see scrubbing it's usually when the OP is proven wrong by using contextual Scripture and/or the owner of the site (or his/her faithful followers) have become harsh/mean/insulting in their tone, further proving the kind of fruit that their stream of belief is producing. They often recognize it and *poof*. Scrub-a-dub-dub!
-JGIG
Amen!
I'm always amazed at folks in the HRM who know so much about paganism. Sooo much study about what's false!
The really wonderful thing about immersing in the Word through the lens of the Work of Christ is that when something does come along that is false, Scripture passages come to mind and we can go to see what God has to say about something.
The biggest blessing that has come through having my faith challenged by Law-keepers has been to see how faithful God has been to orchestrate the Gospel of Grace so that it will always, Always, ALWAYS stand!
-JGIG
I'm always amazed at folks in the HRM who know so much about paganism. Sooo much study about what's false!
The really wonderful thing about immersing in the Word through the lens of the Work of Christ is that when something does come along that is false, Scripture passages come to mind and we can go to see what God has to say about something.
The biggest blessing that has come through having my faith challenged by Law-keepers has been to see how faithful God has been to orchestrate the Gospel of Grace so that it will always, Always, ALWAYS stand!
-JGIG
Well..... many ARE previous legalists.....
A prison of their own making? there's a little truth in that. The decision IS ours, so the fault is ours if we leave God's plan for one made by man. There's a scripture for it too:
2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [SUP]12 [/SUP]That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Those who fall to antichrist doctrine (small a), will believe its delusion & be damned. Even now, some of you are enjoying the posting of all kinds of judgment & accusation, but not all.
This "strong delusion" is spreading worldwide, under many doctrines that redefine faith, grace, why Jesus died on the cross, & even who Jesus is. This "delusion" IS the Great Falling Away mentioned in scripture. Just read the above context of 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12.
A prison of their own making? there's a little truth in that. The decision IS ours, so the fault is ours if we leave God's plan for one made by man. There's a scripture for it too:
2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [SUP]12 [/SUP]That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Those who fall to antichrist doctrine (small a), will believe its delusion & be damned. Even now, some of you are enjoying the posting of all kinds of judgment & accusation, but not all.
This "strong delusion" is spreading worldwide, under many doctrines that redefine faith, grace, why Jesus died on the cross, & even who Jesus is. This "delusion" IS the Great Falling Away mentioned in scripture. Just read the above context of 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12.
I wouldn't say it's usually the case. My experience the reason is to keep their site looking like a winner, for a popular winner has great sales. Sales is the bottom line even before being right.
It's my opinion that here on CC the "bottom line" for the hypergracers isn't being right. If you're a propagandist, the bottom line is to sow disinformation into the church. Some may say I'm "out there", but I believe elite enemies of the cross are behind it..... just as they have been behind a lot of things. When media is constantly against the church, the govt is constantly against the church, then we need to wake up & realize that they're right here on CC controlling this "media" by loading up the BDF with propaganda to destroy the rep of this forum..... And they've succeeded. Just ask members in the other forums why they won't be caught dead in the BDF.
Control the media, control the people. Destroy the influence of the church. Destroy the truth in the church. Stop the true Gospel from spreading.
Matthew 24:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:14 (NLT)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:14 (YLT)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]and this good news of the reign shall be proclaimed in all the world, for a testimony to all the nations; and then shall the end arrive.
It's my opinion that here on CC the "bottom line" for the hypergracers isn't being right. If you're a propagandist, the bottom line is to sow disinformation into the church. Some may say I'm "out there", but I believe elite enemies of the cross are behind it..... just as they have been behind a lot of things. When media is constantly against the church, the govt is constantly against the church, then we need to wake up & realize that they're right here on CC controlling this "media" by loading up the BDF with propaganda to destroy the rep of this forum..... And they've succeeded. Just ask members in the other forums why they won't be caught dead in the BDF.
Control the media, control the people. Destroy the influence of the church. Destroy the truth in the church. Stop the true Gospel from spreading.
Matthew 24:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:14 (NLT)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:14 (YLT)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]and this good news of the reign shall be proclaimed in all the world, for a testimony to all the nations; and then shall the end arrive.
So what?
Grace, unmerited, unearned favor of God.
That is not a 'strong delusion', it is an integral component of our salvation:
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (from Eph. 2)
-JGIG
I wouldn't say it's usually the case. My experience the reason is to keep their site looking like a winner, for a popular winner has great sales. Sales is the bottom line even before being right.
It's my opinion that here on CC the "bottom line" for the hypergracers isn't being right. If you're a propagandist, the bottom line is to sow disinformation into the church. Some may say I'm "out there", but I believe elite enemies of the cross are behind it..... just as they have been behind a lot of things. When media is constantly against the church, the govt is constantly against the church, then we need to wake up & realize that they're right here on CC controlling this "media" by loading up the BDF with propaganda to destroy the rep of this forum..... And they've succeeded. Just ask members in the other forums why they won't be caught dead in the BDF.
Control the media, control the people. Destroy the influence of the church. Destroy the truth in the church. Stop the true Gospel from spreading.
Matthew 24:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:14 (NLT)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:14 (YLT)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]and this good news of the reign shall be proclaimed in all the world, for a testimony to all the nations; and then shall the end arrive.
It's my opinion that here on CC the "bottom line" for the hypergracers isn't being right. If you're a propagandist, the bottom line is to sow disinformation into the church. Some may say I'm "out there", but I believe elite enemies of the cross are behind it..... just as they have been behind a lot of things. When media is constantly against the church, the govt is constantly against the church, then we need to wake up & realize that they're right here on CC controlling this "media" by loading up the BDF with propaganda to destroy the rep of this forum..... And they've succeeded. Just ask members in the other forums why they won't be caught dead in the BDF.
Control the media, control the people. Destroy the influence of the church. Destroy the truth in the church. Stop the true Gospel from spreading.
Matthew 24:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:14 (NLT)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:14 (YLT)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]and this good news of the reign shall be proclaimed in all the world, for a testimony to all the nations; and then shall the end arrive.
Ooooh, a conspiracy! Riiiight.
Here's the deal: I believe that the Good News does not cease to be the Good News after one becomes saved. Those who have received the salvation that God has provided He KEEPS. He has sealed we who have believed on Christ with His Holy Spirit guaranteeing our inheritance until the day of redemption for HIS glory (see Eph. 1).
That in no way contradicts the Scriptures you've listed above.
The Good News remaining the Good News in no way leads believers to a life of sinning. That is a lie from the pit. Grace teaches us to say no to ungodliness and to live godly and upright lives (see Titus 2).
Simple.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. (from 2 Cor. 11)
-JGIG
And all these "signs" are all nonsense based on this one man's bias view and in fact true grace believers do not agree with all of this man's personal opinions of what "he thinks " the signs are.
This list is based on many mis-perceptions and mostly mis-representing of the real truth.
This verifies what the OP originally was saying concerning this subject.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
Here is an article entitled "8 signs that a church doesn't get grace".
https://escapetoreality.org/2016/07/07/8-signs-that-a-church-doesnt-get-grace/
This list is based on many mis-perceptions and mostly mis-representing of the real truth.
This verifies what the OP originally was saying concerning this subject.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
Here is an article entitled "8 signs that a church doesn't get grace".
https://escapetoreality.org/2016/07/07/8-signs-that-a-church-doesnt-get-grace/
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:8) there are many diffirent religions on entire planet
how come some of those religions never even mention this
as it is written
:read:
Deuteronomio: 28. 58. If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD;
59. Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.
:ty:
godbless us all always
how come some of those religions never even mention this
as it is written
:read:
Deuteronomio: 28. 58. If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD;
59. Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.
:ty:
godbless us all always