Local church

[Chuckt]

Are you eluding to the modern paid pastor that quit his job to teach 40 minutes on Sunday for a full 40 hour paycheck?

With a title that places him above the other elder teachers? If so I have already provided the scriptures that counter all that. Should I write them out again for the millionth time?

And some of them visited us in the hospital when my wife was recovering from surgery.
The church helped our family tremendously because we needed help because I had to work and my wife had a broken leg for six weeks
.
We know a poor family that had a broken house heater. We had two emergency and portable heaters that we lent them because they gave us so much and also because they were in need.

If you saw the bigger picture, the church is a hospital and you are not giving them mercy because you say they fall short according to you and the way we judge can be given back to us by God.

James 2:13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

James 4:17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them.

 

[Chuckt]

Huh? I'm a simple man with simple mind. Keep it simple.

Now once again. What scriptures have I wrested?

Not going to church.

Could the hirling be you?

John 10:13 The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

And what is the difference if they get paid and you don't? You both aren't caring for the sheep if you don't go to church.

 

[Tresnouveau_ne]

Your situation is not unique, and You have my prayer.
In many cities, this has become the norm.
This should show us that we are indeed in the last days.
But that does not justify demonizing all churches and pastor as some do.

"But that does not justify demonizing all churches and pastor as some do"
I agree. I also think that those who are blessed to have a good church home should not judge those who are less fortunate.
We are indeed in the last days. The state of the "church" is proof enough.

 

[Chuckt]

Show me an assembly based on the NT pattern and I'll come early and I'll stay late. Not looking for perfection just a group moving toward God's design. I hunger for such a gathering. I yearn for such a fellowship. I see the NT pattern and I long for it daily. I'm not holding my breath that it will ever transpire. But the beauty of the scriptures that reveal His purpose and plan for His body sadden me. For this reason. Most Christians have no clue or even a desire to get a clue. Unable to discern His body or what His original intent for a functioning ecclesias even means.

Me trying to drag believers kicking and screaming to the word of God on this is wearing me down. I pray God would pull back the mantle that obscures these scriptural prescriptions. Like parting the Sea of Reeds. Please Lord.

All I want to do is wait on tables, wash feet, share His glorious word, and support the poor......without charge.

What evidence would you show if the church was 75%, 50%, 35% that you would still go?
Some of us spend lots of money trying to study the word to make up for what doesn't happen.
We work by going to church. You don't.

 

[Yet]

I'm tired of pointing to the same scriptures over and over and no one gets it. An exercise in futility. It's Marinade time.

Blessed is the man that makes the Lord his trust, and respects not those that turn to lies and are proud. Psalm 40:4

 

[Chuckt]

"But that does not justify demonizing all churches and pastor as some do"
I agree. I also think that those who are blessed to have a good church home should not judge those who are less fortunate.
We are indeed in the last days. The state of the "church" is proof enough.

I still think most people can find a church even if it isn't perfect.

 

[Chuckt]

I'm tired of pointing to the same scriptures over and over and no one gets it. An exercise in futility. It's Marinade time.

So full of information but can't convince many.

 

[Persuaded]

"But that does not justify demonizing all churches and pastor as some do"
I agree. I also think that those who are blessed to have a good church home should not judge those who are less fortunate.
We are indeed in the last days. The state of the "church" is proof enough.

I never judge those who are less fortunate.
I know how difficult, even imposible. finding a "good" church can be in some cities.
I pray for Christians in such situatiions. God understands.
But I will call out and mark those who demonize "all" churches and pastors just because of their unfortunate situation.
Not judging, just pointing out their sin in the hope they will repent and change thier ways.

 

[Nikki84]

But what was unimportant wasn't written down or else it would have been written down.

I'm sorry but I disagree. The Apostle John said there was so much that the world could not contain the volumes. This does not sound like unimportant things. Most of these were orally taught by the Apostles themselves

 

[Chuckt]

I'm sorry but I disagree. The Apostle John said there was so much that the world could not contain the volumes. This does not sound like unimportant things. Most of these were orally taught by the Apostles themselves

But they weren't the main things. And God saw differently because He didn't breathe them out into the scriptures.

 

[Complete_In_Him]

Accusing me of not believing in the salvation of believers through the grace of God? My goodness, you are being deliberately obtuse, aren't you?

You have the serpent's tongue, hornetguy, I accuse you of not speaking the gospel in truth. The gospel of this ministry is "saved by grace", not salvation is a process, "through grace"

You don't know the Gospel of the grace of God, because you don't believe it. You love another gospel, you can thank your "church" for that doctrine of devils... "having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof"

We are not made righteous, sanctified, justified or saved or added to the body of Christ by water baptism. That doctrine which you espouse is not, "the preaching of the cross" or the "preaching of Jesus Christ" according to the revelation of the mystery.


[SUP]5 [/SUP]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[Complete_In_Him]

So, yesterday, I'm reading posts, I thought don't people consider the ministry of our apostle while he was in prison. Ministry, assembling yourselves together, is done in many ways. And, actually, there is a whole chapter of greeting to the Church and thanksgiving of the churches, in the book of Romans chp 16. I was just reading it, interesting term, "all the churches of the Gentiles", any thoughts on this?


16 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.[SUP]5 [/SUP]Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my well-beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Greet Mary, who bestowed much labour on us.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Greet Amplias my beloved in the Lord.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Salute Urbane, our helper in Christ, and Stachys my beloved.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Salute Apelles approved in Christ. Salute them which are of Aristobulus' household.
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]Salute Herodion my kinsman. Greet them that be of the household of Narcissus, which are in the Lord.[SUP]12 [/SUP]Salute Tryphena and Tryphosa, who labour in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which laboured much in the Lord.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Salute Rufus chosen in the Lord, and his mother and mine.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Salute Asyncritus, Phlegon, Hermas, Patrobas, Hermes, and the brethren which are with them.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Salute Philologus, and Julia, Nereus, and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints which are with them.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.[SUP]18 [/SUP]For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.[SUP]19 [/SUP]For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Timotheus my workfellow, and Lucius, and Jason, and Sosipater, my kinsmen, salute you.[SUP]22 [/SUP]I Tertius, who wrote this epistle, salute you in the Lord.[SUP]23 [/SUP]Gaius mine host, and of the whole church, saluteth you. Erastus the chamberlain of the city saluteth you, and Quartus a brother.[SUP]24 [/SUP]The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

[SUP]26 [/SUP]But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

[SUP]27 [/SUP]To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

 

[Persuaded]

"all the churches of the Gentiles" (Quote)

I am sure that most of you will disagree with me on this, but this is what I believe the Scripture teaches.

To refer to all the saved as "the church" is to depart from the original meaning of the greek word translated church.
The word's original meaning refered to a local assembly that could physically meet together.
Therefore there are many churches. Each independent. Each the body of Christ in the city, neighborhood they meet. Jesus is the head of each.
It is physically imposible for all the saved to meet in one assembly. So to use the word to refer to all the saved is to missuse it.
All the saved are the children of God, The kingdom of God, but not "the church".
Let me also say that just because an assembly calls themself a church does not make it so. The question is if Jesus recognize that assembly as His.
It is not for me to judge, but I am leery of those whose teaching and practice is obviously contrary to Scripture.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is a short 12 minute video talking about statistics among pastors...the amount of work they do...how they are treated.....very eye opening and also an exhortations for pastors to hang in there....etc..


[video=youtube;LbRB-4w0OH4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbRB-4w0OH4[/video]

 

[hornetguy]

You have the serpent's tongue, hornetguy, I accuse you of not speaking the gospel in truth. The gospel of this ministry is "saved by grace", not salvation is a process, "through grace"

You don't know the Gospel of the grace of God, because you don't believe it. You love another gospel, you can thank your "church" for that doctrine of devils... "having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof"

We are not made righteous, sanctified, justified or saved or added to the body of Christ by water baptism. That doctrine which you espouse is not, "the preaching of the cross" or the "preaching of Jesus Christ" according to the revelation of the mystery.


[SUP]5 [/SUP]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Ok, then.. thanks for sharing your version of. Salvation with me.

 

[Yet]

My final word for now, oh yea, I'll be back when He prompts me, is to say to you all.....go your way. Do what you want.

 

[Chuckt]

Here is a short 12 minute video talking about statistics among pastors...the amount of work they do...how they are treated.....very eye opening and also an exhortations for pastors to hang in there....etc..


[video=youtube;LbRB-4w0OH4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbRB-4w0OH4[/video]

Thank you for this. I am amused by the rap at the end.
I am also wondering how Christians dealing with abuse or who have problems would fare in ministry when this is the result or end of this profession.

 

[Grace777x70]

I think too many pastors and some in ministry are trying to do it in their own self-effort and they are getting burned out. They are very sincere but not living under the grace of Christ. I have listened to many ministers that once they got the revelation of the true gospel of the grace of Christ - their whole lives changed and this makes the hardships of the ministry bearable and even joyful.

Thank you for this. I am amused by the rap at the end.
I am also wondering how Christians dealing with abuse or who have problems would fare in ministry when this is the result or end of this profession.

 

[Angela53510]

You are accusing me falsely again. I am not trying to seperate scriptures from other scriptures. Im highlighting. I'm just pointing out that the modern church is indeed separating scripture from other scripture when they leave out the every member participation paradigm that is in the word..why can yo not see that? You think I want the worse for the body. That's a lie from the pit of hell. I want the best for them.

It seems pretty obvious you did not read my whole post. In a really Spirit led church, everyone should be involved - but according to their gifts. And not everyone is gifted with teaching and/or preaching. Like I said, my husband does not like to speak in public. He is incredibly shy. He would rather die than speak in church. But get him fixing the roof, or cleaning the yard or re-wiring the lights, he is a happy man. He has the gift of service. That is a very necessary gift!

So unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying, I do not think everyone should be preaching and/or teaching. Our last pastor used to stand in front of the church and ask for people who wanted to preach to see him. And we probably had 16 volunteers for that position over the summer and they were all excellent. In the last church I was in, the elders preached over the summer. That actually didn't go as well as what has happened here. Most of the elders were just clueless on how to get and give a message. That was two long months of bad preaching! I guess that happens too!

I believe when everyone is plugged into a ministry in a church, according to their gifts, the entire church benefits. I really want the best for my church, and each person in it, and all the new people who come in.

So does that mean you are accusing me falsely again? Just curious, because to my mind, you clearly said that Eph. 4:11 was one verse, in a post, then asked for an explanation/interpretation of Eph. 4:12 in a different post. That seems like separating them out of context, but I could be wrong. I'll let God be the judge on that one! It certainly was not my intent to falsely accuse you.

To me, falsely accusing is when somebody says that someone has done something, and they have not. So if you say the sky is blue, and I call you a liar, that would be me falsely accusing you. Or if I say someone did something they did not do, then I would be falsely accusing them. By separating the verses into different posts, it "appeared" to me like you were separating the context of the verses from each other.

As for the modern church separating Scripture from other Scriptures, I guess I don't attend that sort of church. We always deal with passages of Scripture. In fact, we did a series on the Psalms, and we did whole chapters each week. Anyone with a bit of knowledge of exegetics knows that you cannot separate verses that were written to appear together. And everyone operating and giving according to their gift is certainly the only Biblical stance.

 

[Angela53510]

So if the pastor does all the sermonizing every Sunday, which their is no evidence in the bible, when are the scriptures I point to find time to be fulfilled. You are separating scripture from scripture. You are saying Pauls discourse had no room for questions and dialogue. I don't think so. Paul was preaching the gospel. We're talking apples and oranges. The established assembly allowed every member to minister. The blindness on your part is frightening. And s goes the apostasy into the arms of the one world religion.
In your assembly, does every one face each other and use their functions according to the instructions in the word of God?

Actually, as I read this post, I was struck by how totally blind you are, Yet! And I am sorry if those are harsh words. Because you are saying all kinds of bizarre things, not based on the Bible, but actually not reading what I said.

I repeat - we had FIVE months of different people preaching every Sunday in our church. Each person preached on a long passage or chapter. They used supporting verses. And yes, people do get up in our church when they have a "word" from God, and speak it to the congregation. Although we are Baptist, we are pretty Biblical. So over 20 people preaching, and every single one of them had a very deep message from God.

So where does it say in Acts 20 that there was question and dialogue? Because I just see what the words say, and that is that Paul talked a long, long time. And I think that was the usual way he talked. There may have been some questions after, or maybe in smaller groups, but basically, I believe Paul was trying to reach the maximum number of people, because he had the most important message in the world.

So show me in the Word where it says there were questions and dialogue. I would love to see that. And I am not so rigid and inflexible, that I couldn't see the need for a change, if that proved to be Scriptural. One Sunday in January, we arrive to find all our chairs in small circles of about 10 chairs. That was in the sanctuary. I admit we were a bit confused as a congregation. Then we had one person in each group lead the discussion, and the rest of us asked questions or related our experiences on the Biblical topic. That was a very interesting service, for sure!