LOGIC IS BEDROCK
- Thread starter Roughsoul1991
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I agree.
I think that although our brains are physically corrupted and weakened through the fall, the primary issue is a spiritual one.
It's a matter of sin.
Our minds simply do not WANT to think logically, lol.
This is just a matter of sin and pride... something we all share.
I think we can all think of a time when we've refused to believe something simply because we didn't want to.
We've all done this.
No one gets a pass on struggling with sin.
It affects all of us.
It affects all of us, and it's probably a thousand times worse in those that are lost... those who place no value on ultimate truth at all.
One of the greatest Christian philosophers of our age has even asserted, publicly, that the lost man CANNOT reason correctly because his mind is dysfunctional.
As you can imagine, he's not winning any popularity contests.
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I think that although our brains are physically corrupted and weakened through the fall, the primary issue is a spiritual one.
It's a matter of sin.
Our minds simply do not WANT to think logically, lol.
This is just a matter of sin and pride... something we all share.
I think we can all think of a time when we've refused to believe something simply because we didn't want to.
We've all done this.
No one gets a pass on struggling with sin.
It affects all of us.
It affects all of us, and it's probably a thousand times worse in those that are lost... those who place no value on ultimate truth at all.
One of the greatest Christian philosophers of our age has even asserted, publicly, that the lost man CANNOT reason correctly because his mind is dysfunctional.
As you can imagine, he's not winning any popularity contests.
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Your words: "So without rhema logos is just the written word. And imo is the reason why we have so many different doctrines. Holy Spirit is not confused. And logic then to me, is just human reasoning about what is spiritual truth."
Logic, in and of itself, is not focused on spiritual truth. Rather, it is a set of principles that underlie basic reasoning. When Scripture states, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth", it is employing a basic logical premise: because the heavens and the earth were created by God, they are by definition not eternal, and they are not the creation of some other entity or entities. Logic is discovered by humans, not invented.
Humans, especially those who do not hold to a Christian worldview, may use some logical principles in their anti-Christian arguments, but that does not make logic a human invention, any more than an atheist breathing air makes air and breathing human inventions.
Logic, in and of itself, is not focused on spiritual truth. Rather, it is a set of principles that underlie basic reasoning. When Scripture states, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth", it is employing a basic logical premise: because the heavens and the earth were created by God, they are by definition not eternal, and they are not the creation of some other entity or entities. Logic is discovered by humans, not invented.
Humans, especially those who do not hold to a Christian worldview, may use some logical principles in their anti-Christian arguments, but that does not make logic a human invention, any more than an atheist breathing air makes air and breathing human inventions.
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We share the same attributes as the Creator. If you want to know what the nature of God is, see what characteristics scripture attributes to God. Since man is created in the image of God, this means that man has been instilled with those same attributes. Logic is a integral component of reason. Do you not remember in Isaiah 1:18 how God pleaded with Judah, “Come now, and let us reason together, says the Lord....“
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no one has mentionned being clever
no one has mentionned maneuvering their way into heaven
no one has mentionned settling for their own efforts or what they produce
I guess you meant devil knowledge in your last sentence
by any chance, have you heard of the Salem witch trials?
I think you would have been quite comfortable during that time
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absolutely
this will be shocking
God sent His Son because it was the LOGICAL thing to do
He tells us that He loved us so that is what He did
but the understanding comes when you realize that was the only LOGICAL solution to sin
better yet, He planned it all along because He knows what will happen but yet we can choose
He knows who will choose what and the consequences
reject truth and you are handily decieved and God will not correct you unless you go to Him and admit it
or, you start reaping the consequences of your deception and the pain gets bad enough and then you beg for help
Israel is an example to us all
this will be shocking
God sent His Son because it was the LOGICAL thing to do
He tells us that He loved us so that is what He did
but the understanding comes when you realize that was the only LOGICAL solution to sin
better yet, He planned it all along because He knows what will happen but yet we can choose
He knows who will choose what and the consequences
reject truth and you are handily decieved and God will not correct you unless you go to Him and admit it
or, you start reaping the consequences of your deception and the pain gets bad enough and then you beg for help
Israel is an example to us all
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15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.
17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminence. 19For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.
Colossians 1
17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminence. 19For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.
Colossians 1
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U
What is logical is not always true.
If logic is the science of how to evaluate arguments and reasoning... then surely this reference is not to only to logic but reasoning and critical thinking.
And in reality logic cannot always be employed to make those evaluations, thus the reason for other forms of thinking and reasoning.
If logic is an attribute of God are math and science also an attribute?
If logic is the science of how to evaluate arguments and reasoning... then surely this reference is not to only to logic but reasoning and critical thinking.
And in reality logic cannot always be employed to make those evaluations, thus the reason for other forms of thinking and reasoning.
If logic is an attribute of God are math and science also an attribute?
My position would be that the word of God is bedrock. Logic may be used to evaluate the word of God (for instance, critical reasoning) but it is not bedrock. The word of God is. I do not trust my reasoning as I know that my mind can deceive me (Jer 17:9).
In fact, my conversion involved coming to the point where I realized this fact. Our own minds deceive us. However, the Holy Spirit is able to reveal this to us, and show our self-deception, if we are praying for his leading.
At the same time, though, I don't buy into the weird, charismatic/Pentecostal claims that we should abandon all reasoning (and some would claim the word of God) for weird, self-revelations devoid of any element of reasoning. Unfortunately, this is what some of this group does. Due to influences like Charles Finney, there is an element of contempt within this world for Christian academic pursuits. The fruit of this is evident in various groups like Bethel.
In fact, my conversion involved coming to the point where I realized this fact. Our own minds deceive us. However, the Holy Spirit is able to reveal this to us, and show our self-deception, if we are praying for his leading.
At the same time, though, I don't buy into the weird, charismatic/Pentecostal claims that we should abandon all reasoning (and some would claim the word of God) for weird, self-revelations devoid of any element of reasoning. Unfortunately, this is what some of this group does. Due to influences like Charles Finney, there is an element of contempt within this world for Christian academic pursuits. The fruit of this is evident in various groups like Bethel.
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Our minds an deceive us, but that is not the fault of sound logic. Rather, it is often the abuse, avoidance, or ignorance of logic that leads to deception.
Logic isn't spiritual discernment, but is a very useful tool for those not so gifted. Consider that 1 John 4:1-3 is a logical test. If a spirit's response to the challenge is not appropriate, you can conclude logically that the spirit is not from God.
Logic isn't spiritual discernment, but is a very useful tool for those not so gifted. Consider that 1 John 4:1-3 is a logical test. If a spirit's response to the challenge is not appropriate, you can conclude logically that the spirit is not from God.
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I guess that I just do not understand this debate.
This keeps coming to mind...If we say He is not logical, are we saying He and our faith are illogical? I pray not. We are often illogical but He is always logical even when we don't understand.
Our Lord and our Faith are good and reasonable, even when we are not.
Thanks for this thread as it has provided much thought.
This keeps coming to mind...If we say He is not logical, are we saying He and our faith are illogical? I pray not. We are often illogical but He is always logical even when we don't understand.
Our Lord and our Faith are good and reasonable, even when we are not.
Thanks for this thread as it has provided much thought.
Perhaps you can provide an example of something that is logical but not true?
If logic is an attribute of God are math and science also an attribute?[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't call logic and math attributes of God; rather, I'd say that they are consistent with and necessary because of God's nature. Both math and logic are fundamental realms of knowledge that are simply discovered.
Science belongs in a different category, as it is the set of principles and processes that are used to discover what is true about the created universe. However, science is based on math and logic. Science in turn may be used to discover mathematical and logical truths.
If logic is an attribute of God are math and science also an attribute?[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't call logic and math attributes of God; rather, I'd say that they are consistent with and necessary because of God's nature. Both math and logic are fundamental realms of knowledge that are simply discovered.
Science belongs in a different category, as it is the set of principles and processes that are used to discover what is true about the created universe. However, science is based on math and logic. Science in turn may be used to discover mathematical and logical truths.
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