Matthew 5. Regarding the Law and the Prophets

[JaumeJ]

I quote with understanding, not direct quotes because they are oft times used simply to support a stance.

It is not a scecret that I always mçpost we do nothing for salvation it is free.

It is secreted by many the understanding of what is posted.

You are the one who asks me for quotes of Jesus or the disciples preaching to the Jews about Salvation, when I have demonstrated from scripture that the Jews knew about Jesus chrisst's comeing and mission long before anyone else was taught about Him.

People do not know this because many if not all are simply peop'le who hate Jews for reasons they do not seem to be able to overcome.

That is sad, becaue when people truly become Saviçed by Jesus Christ they become Jews by translation Hebrews by the promise of the Land (Kingdom), and Israel by the electio n of god.

Remember, the rest of that Ephesians verse states how we've been made near:

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

We are made near by the blood of Christ, not by following the OT law...

 

[seed_time_harvest]

This has puzzled me ever since i became a christian. When i started reading the bible on my own and i read this in matthew how i thought it was: "Yup, we gotta keep the old testament law still, clearly"
And then I had the idea driven into me that this was still old covenant since Jesus hadnt died yet and its for the jews and all this.
But in my own mind it is FOREVER saying we should keep the law, but I still dont keep the law and sometimes i feel bad for it, and i think that because nobody else keeps it either i just misunderstood that passage.

I dunno, i havent heard any credible explanations to this, its always the love God and love your neighbor explanation, but wait a minute now, thats what the law of the OT tells us to do and how the 10 commandments are split forexample.

If anyone has a good explanation for how we dont need to keep the law, im all ears.

If you try to keep the law and you do not keep It perfectly,will this standard of righteousness please GOD?

 

[John146]

I quote with understanding, not direct quotes because they are oft times used simply to support a stance.

It is not a scecret that I always mçpost we do nothing for salvation it is free.

It is secreted by many the understanding of what is posted.

You are the one who asks me for quotes of Jesus or the disciples preaching to the Jews about Salvation, when I have demonstrated from scripture that the Jews knew about Jesus chrisst's comeing and mission long before anyone else was taught about Him.

People do not know this because many if not all are simply peop'le who hate Jews for reasons they do not seem to be able to overcome.

That is sad, becaue when people truly become Saviçed by Jesus Christ they become Jews by translation Hebrews by the promise of the Land (Kingdom), and Israel by the electio n of god.

Luke 18
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

Jesus prophesies what He is going to do, and the disciples, those closest to Him, had no understanding of His death, burial and resurrection. Why? Because this truth was hid from them by God. If this truth was hid from them by God, what where they going around preaching to the Jews?

The disciples were not awaiting the resurrection when Jesus was crucified. The were confused because their king had been slain. When they heard news of the resurrection, they thought it an "idle tale." At one point, Peter rebuked the Lord for speaking such things.

 

[miknik5]

The kingdom of heaven is the earthly, visible kingdom promised to the nation of Israel, God's physical people. The kingdom of God is His spiritual kingdom in which the believer lives. Both aspects will be realized at the Lord's coming.

Do you think those who have a part in the first resurrection inherit both?
(although I do not believe outside entering into THE KINGDOM through faith in HIS SON now translates to having a part in the Kingdom which will come at the end of all things

who do you think will be reigning during the 1000 year reign?

just the Jews or all those who had a part in the FIRST RESURRECTION

And according to THE WORD, who has a part in the FIRST RESURRECTION

 

[miknik5]

What I mean to say is that one has to enter in NOW through faith in the ONE who opened THE WAY unto the PRESENCE of GOD In order to have a part in the Kingdom which will come at the end when all things have been accomplished

Those who have heard the voice of theSON of GOD have already passed from death to LIFE

And will not come under condemnation

 

[JaumeJ]

It is apparent by your testimony here that you do not understand the law and the prophets which all point to Jesus christ.


Jesus Christ fulfilled all the law and the prophets foretell. Even the woman at the well knew .

I have already reminded you of many of the writings concerning Jesus in the Old testament. His crcifixion in the Psalms, His forgivemenss and grace in Psalms, that truth that God's grace is fresh each morning in the OT, Abraham's having heard the Gospel in the OT and so much more.........even the good men who sat before Christ in Heaven are mentioned in Zech.......and so much more. Learn what is true and good dby the Holy Spirit, not from the doctrines of man which are no more than traditions taught as commandment from God.........it is rabbinical teachiing you are repeating and nothing more.

Luke 18
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

Jesus prophesies what He is going to do, and the disciples, those closest to Him, had no understanding of His death, burial and resurrection. Why? Because this truth was hid from them by God. If this truth was hid from them by God, what where they going around preaching to the Jews?

The disciples were not awaiting the resurrection when Jesus was crucified. The were confused because their king had been slain. When they heard news of the resurrection, they thought it an "idle tale." At one point, Peter rebuked the Lord for speaking such things.

 

[OneFaith]

There is a current thread discussing if Jesus intended HIS people to be a "religion of the book". There seems to be a lot of back and forth difference in opinion regarding the necessity of reading and understanding of what GOD's written WORD says

Please refer to the below scriptures and let's discuss what CHRIST said and meant by THE SPIRIT regarding the written WORD:





Matthew 5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

God"s law does not change, but the way we obey it does. Under the Old covenant it was done physically, but under the new covenant it is done spiritually. They had a physical lamb, we have a spiritual Lamb (of God). They killed physically, we kill spiritually. Read about our spiritual armour and spiritual war in Ephesians 6. There are many things that were done physically that are now done spiritually.

The Bible says if you follow a law, that you must follow all of that law. If you follow Moses, you have to take people out of the city, and stone them to death for certain sins. You will have to pay for certain things with certain animals instead of money. And good luck finding a high priest to sacrifice on behalf of your sins- since he'd have to be over 2,017 years old.

And you cant follow both Moses and Christ at the same time- that would be commiting spiritual adultery (Romans 7:1-4). Christ has ALL authority today, in heaven and on earth (Matt 28:18)- that leaves no authority for even Moses.

So does this mean we no longer follow the ten commandments? Yes and no- we no longer follow it physically but spiritually, because God's law does not change. For example, under Moses/Ten Commandments, you could not physically murder someone. But under Christ, if you hate someone you are already guilty of murder- whether you carry it out physically or not.

The physical way was just an example of the real way. In our world it seems what is physical is more real than the spiritual- but it's the other way around. The physical came from the spiritual. The spiritual can exist without the physical, but the physical cannot exist without the spiritual. Physicality is only temporary. God is preparing us to live in a spiritual realm with Him. The physical law was only a shadow, but the reality is found in Christ. Just like a globe is not the real earth, but only a representation of it, in the same way the Old Testament law was only a representation of the real (spiritual) law found in Christ.

The Old Testament will stay with us, because the physical examples in it help us understand the spiritual realities in the New Testament. But we are no longer under Moses. Christ fulfilled the old law (written code) and nailed it to the cross. (Colossians 2:14).

 

[Johnny_B]

There is a current thread discussing if Jesus intended HIS people to be a "religion of the book". There seems to be a lot of back and forth difference in opinion regarding the necessity of reading and understanding of what GOD's written WORD says

Please refer to the below scriptures and let's discuss what CHRIST said and meant by THE SPIRIT regarding the written WORD:





Matthew 5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

None of it passes away until He returns and set up His kingdom, His Word endures forever, the Law and the Prophets will be fulfilled when He comes Daniel 9:24 "prophecy and visions will be sealed or other translation put it. Prophetic visions will be fulfilled. Once the New Heaven and New Earth with us worshipping in the New Jerusalem, there is no need to teach the Law or the Prophets. Jeremiah 31:34 "And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

For now we need to teach the Law and the Prophets, because the Prophets speak of Jesus in His first and second coming, from the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

From 5:17-31 Jesus bring the Law or 10 Commandment to the heart, which the Law was always about, they were about loving God or how to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, spirit and strength.

 

[trofimus]

This has puzzled me ever since i became a christian. When i started reading the bible on my own and i read this in matthew how i thought it was: "Yup, we gotta keep the old testament law still, clearly"
And then I had the idea driven into me that this was still old covenant since Jesus hadnt died yet and its for the jews and all this.
But in my own mind it is FOREVER saying we should keep the law, but I still dont keep the law and sometimes i feel bad for it, and i think that because nobody else keeps it either i just misunderstood that passage.

I dunno, i havent heard any credible explanations to this, its always the love God and love your neighbor explanation, but wait a minute now, thats what the law of the OT tells us to do and how the 10 commandments are split forexample.

If anyone has a good explanation for how we dont need to keep the law, im all ears.

Hi, you can find the credible explanation to this in the letter to Galatians.

Law was given till Christ. It is said there clearly. So the explanation of most of Christians, that Jesus said that because He did not die yet, is backed up by the apostle Paul and his letters.

So you do not need to feel bad or guilty by not following the Law today.

 

[JaumeJ]

So many folks believe they know about what Jesus teaches and who He was teaching when He first came to His creation to give the Good News for all nations.

Professing to be wise they teach Jesus did nto teach the Gospel to His own people ignoring the truth in words of the New Testament and the truth of the Old.

The very worst of it all is not realizing that for decades the saved in Jesus christ were taught excludusively from the Tenakh..the Old Testament.

I, by no means, think myself to know much, but what I have posted here I do. What is more, any understanding I ever share in these posts is from the understanding imparted by the Holy Spirit, for without the Holy Spirit one is not approved no matter what he posts.

God bless all who live in faith and hope and love because of Jesus Christ and in Him, amen.

None of it passes away until He returns and set up His kingdom, His Word endures forever, the Law and the Prophets will be fulfilled when He comes Daniel 9:24 "prophecy and visions will be sealed or other translation put it. Prophetic visions will be fulfilled. Once the New Heaven and New Earth with us worshipping in the New Jerusalem, there is no need to teach the Law or the Prophets. Jeremiah 31:34 "And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

For now we need to teach the Law and the Prophets, because the Prophets speak of Jesus in His first and second coming, from the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

From 5:17-31 Jesus bring the Law or 10 Commandment to the heart, which the Law was always about, they were about loving God or how to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, spirit and strength.

 

[Adstar]

Well i wasnt "preaching" anything, i just laid out my opinion of that particular verse when i first became a believer.
Also this "no one can keep the law" thing has been refuted by the bible itself so many times its amazing you keep talking about it:

Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless

So there we go. either they walked in all commandments blameless or luke 1:6 is a lie.
Paul's letters are the most wrested ones as Peter warned us, lets not fall into a trap of fatalism where we are unable to do good or repent or obey God, we CAN, God has given us the ability, and He COMMANDS us over and over again to repent and do this and do that, but why? because God commands us, isnt that enough of a reason?
Why would God ask for impossible things of us? Jesus said His yoke is not burdensome and heavy.

Also to the falsehood of you cant use the word must, well Peter used it in acts 5 where he said we MUST Obey God rather than men. The commandments of Jesus are a MUST they are not a "well it would be better if you stopped, but if you dont, its okay too", thats not biblical language at all.

I dunno why you decided to get your knickers in a twist over a simple opinion

I never got angry at any stage while making my post..

I thought it would help you understand by making things clear.. But it seems you are one who claims to be able to do all the Law without fail.. So be it.. I believe you are suffering a delusion and you are a works salvation believer..

So be it.. unfortunately you are one among many.. Probably the vast majority of religious people have your kind of thinking..

Such is life..

 

[sparkman]

This has puzzled me ever since i became a christian. When i started reading the bible on my own and i read this in matthew how i thought it was: "Yup, we gotta keep the old testament law still, clearly"
And then I had the idea driven into me that this was still old covenant since Jesus hadnt died yet and its for the jews and all this.
But in my own mind it is FOREVER saying we should keep the law, but I still dont keep the law and sometimes i feel bad for it, and i think that because nobody else keeps it either i just misunderstood that passage.

I dunno, i havent heard any credible explanations to this, its always the love God and love your neighbor explanation, but wait a minute now, thats what the law of the OT tells us to do and how the 10 commandments are split forexample.

If anyone has a good explanation for how we dont need to keep the law, im all ears.

Notice that the verses say that NOT ONE JOT OR TITTLE WILL PASS FROM THE LAW UNTIL ALL IS FULFILLED.

We KNOW that animal sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood have "passed" from the Law, so if this verse was meant to prove the continued applicability of the Mosaic Covenant/Law, those who claim this have some explaining to do, as "jots and tittles" have passed from the Law if their interpretation of the verse is correct.

Additionally, Law and Prophets refers to the Old Testament in general, and not to the Mosaic Covenant in particular.

Read Acts 15, II Corinthians 3, Galatians 3-4, Ephesians 2:13-15, Romans 7:1-6, and Hebrews 7-8. "Torah observers" will try to import a false context into these verses, such as claiming they refer to the Oral Law or the "traditions of the elders" but those interpretations weren't binding to start with. Those who hold a given paradigm will often come up with false contexts, etcetera, to continue to justify their position.

I was a Sabbath/festival observer for over a decade. I can tell you that there is a STRONG TENDENCY amongst such individuals to be cultic...believing conspiracy theories about the Roman Catholic Church, Constantine, etcetera, which are not true and don't line up with church history. Also, they tend to be cliquish and talk about how they are so glad they learned "the truth", referring to their peculiar doctrines. They often separate themselves from the rest of Christianity, as they claim that the observances of days and meats make a crucial difference to God. Some simply claim others are in sin, others claim that they haven't met the requirement or condition of salvation and are unbelievers. When I was a Judaizer, I claimed others were not believers due to their non-observance of the Sabbath, festivals and clean meat laws. So do many other Judaizers.

On the other hand, there are SOME who don't make such claims. Jews for Jesus, for example, does not make such claims. They observe days and meats to remain connected to their Jewish heritage. Some Gentile believers appreciate the shadows and types of the Mosaic Covenant, and observe them as a result. I have no issue with such people, and they are not Judaizers. Judaizers reveal themselves eventually by their accusations, although often they speak in guarded manner in order to hide their true beliefs and contempt for non-observers.

I like this group called JerusalemAssembly on YouTube. They are balanced in this regard. They are Messianic Jews in Jerusalem. Meno Kalisher is their pastor. He's not a nut like I described above.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbqxHKojvlUWBzFtUapcM5A

I would have no problem hanging out with these guys, but I would not recommend hanging out with nuts. Many of them also deny the Trinity, the full deity of Jesus, the writings of Paul, and follow the Mishnah and other non-inspired writings.

Here's a thread I did on Matthew 5:17-19 if you're interested:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/115415-matthew-5-17-19-sabbathkeeping-claims.html

I'd also highly recommend the book "Freedom in Christ" by Meno Kalisher. It is basically a commentary on Galatians. Not only does it cover Galatians well, it covers foundational truths of Christianity and how to rightly view the Mosaic Covenant in relation to the New Covenant. He has dealt with Judaizers over the course of his ministry, and is a fully committed evangelical Christian who observes the Sabbath and festival days without judging others. The message of Galatians is excellent with regards to refuting the claims of Judaizers.

 

[JaumeJ]

For the simple fact that part of the law is fulfilled does not translate as that law being obsolet, no, it is fulfilled by Jesus christ.

The law is applied only with faith, mercy and justice in order to be used lawfully.

The laws that are eternal will always be so, while some are temporal..not temporary, temporal. Think about the laws. The laws which are contained in Love, God, are never ablished.