Music in Church?
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One of my favorite Cd's I own is "JOHNNY CASH The Gospel Collection", I play(d) it so much in my car my wife makes me put something else on... not because she does not like it, but I just played it to much, but I am not in worship service, when congregated with my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ (including my wife), to worship Him and what He did for me, we do it His way, my CD play stays in the car...
In heaven, If God would like me to play Guitar (I have 3) it will take His help to make me play them good lol, but on this earth, He has told me through His Son, in His word, how to worship Him, John tells us what he saw, heaven is not earth, I want to see what he did, but to do that I have to do what God said here first.
I think we have the answer as to why the forefathers didn't have mechanical/electric instruments - electricity wasn't invented yet.... It's starting to make sense to this Blond now..... I bet the forefathers or was it the four fathers would use the instruments now and enjoy them plus the heavenly music they provide in Praise to God.
Disclaimer....trying to be humorous not mean......
Disclaimer....trying to be humorous not mean......
If you have 3 guitars then do you ever play them? If you play them for your own enjoyment is that then not selfish to not be using a talent that God gave you? I really am trying to understand the reasoning behind why it was o.k. in the Old Testament to have instruments but all of a sudden it is not o.k. in the New? I thought things got better and easier, clearer with the New Testament? God has grace for everything but not for musical instruments? This bumfuzzles the Blond.....Cerealy bumfuzzled... I do remember reading not to bury your talents though and if you did God would give them to someone who would use them.....
hmm..
what i'm seeing as admonishment for all of us in this verse is (1) let the word of Christ dwell in us richly and (2) let it manifest among ourselves in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.
i believe it is a good thing then to have in our minds and hearts this Word, and psalms and hymns too. reading the book of Psalms - what better source of spiritual songs! - i see that all kinds of things cry out praise to the Lord. lutes (which the modern guitar is a descendant of), lyres, organs, percussion instruments, woodwinds.. and our voices, our lives, our actions.. and even the trees and mountains and every living creature.
so i see no "mandate" that everyone should play a lute. actually, i'm pretty sure that all that teaching about us being as a body with many parts who all have their function, Christ being the head, has some bearing on this. . .
really the "mandate" here is that the redeeming love of our Lord should be magnified in our hearts, bringing forth joy, encouragement, admonishment and grace, and that the outpouring of this should be our conversation.
i can't speak for everyone's experience with the human race, but in my short life it seems to me that people with glad hearts generally express that with singing, dancing and making a joyful noise.
she can correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought the gist of her comment was that she had in mind to do this as a concession to the weaker in the faith, so they wouldn't stumble. kind of like how Paul said with eating meat. that although all things are lawful for us, and it is for freedom that we are made free, the better part is not to cause others to stumble.
not because we are beholden anymore to dietary laws (or restrictions on how we might express our praise) but because some of our consciouses are "seared" being not far removed from, as it were, idolatry.
remember, Paul taught us that the vegetarian - who abstains from guilt - is the one with the weaker faith.
yeah really @JabberJaw -- do you play them at all? what's in your heart when you do?
i have a lot of hand drums and other instruments. when i play them, i do it meditating on His word, and as prayer, and thanksgiving and joy in Him. it wasn't always like this with me - before He renewed me, i concentrated on some other spirit. now, i concentrate in my heart on worshiping Him.
so - totally removed from a congregational setting, do you play your guitar as though to God? i'm not asking to accuse you or anything, but i wonder if you've considered that?
i have a lot of hand drums and other instruments. when i play them, i do it meditating on His word, and as prayer, and thanksgiving and joy in Him. it wasn't always like this with me - before He renewed me, i concentrated on some other spirit. now, i concentrate in my heart on worshiping Him.
so - totally removed from a congregational setting, do you play your guitar as though to God? i'm not asking to accuse you or anything, but i wonder if you've considered that?
You are correct in understanding of my post.
I wanted to simply share something with brothers and sisters who consider instruments unfit, that would not offend them or cause them to stumble. But I kind of seen that I'm being judged regardless so it was pretty much discouraging. It still wont prevent me from making a capella songs, in fact I have already prepared Psalm 61 that way. It came into my heart that way. I dont just attach God's name to my music, it is music born of worship.
I started making music to God by going through the Book of Psalms and singing it. Then I was led to spread His Word by singing on His psalms and publish these songs. And I have the complete songs with musical background in my heart too, so I put it down together in a program. I can understand everyone might not be led to every type of music and I am not upset by that at all, the only thing that upsets me here is when people judge others about things that the Bible does not forbid, while not having insight into their hearts, and speak in place of God.
I wanted to simply share something with brothers and sisters who consider instruments unfit, that would not offend them or cause them to stumble. But I kind of seen that I'm being judged regardless so it was pretty much discouraging. It still wont prevent me from making a capella songs, in fact I have already prepared Psalm 61 that way. It came into my heart that way. I dont just attach God's name to my music, it is music born of worship.
I started making music to God by going through the Book of Psalms and singing it. Then I was led to spread His Word by singing on His psalms and publish these songs. And I have the complete songs with musical background in my heart too, so I put it down together in a program. I can understand everyone might not be led to every type of music and I am not upset by that at all, the only thing that upsets me here is when people judge others about things that the Bible does not forbid, while not having insight into their hearts, and speak in place of God.
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define "psalms, hymns and spiritual songs", find anything other than a voice of the human and a stringed instrument, then tell me what Paul says the instrument to be played is.
I don't see all that in what was commanded of the NT church, we are not under David, but the Lord Jesus Christ, we do it His way, now show me where we are told to use all those instruments David prescribed carried over by our Lord, only "singing" can be found.
He said "to one another". can one person in the body of Christ save the entire body? then one person with a guitar cannot "sing to one another".
I agree, but dancing is not in the command, it would be operating in silence of the bible, and the noise to be made is said to be with the voice, "speaking" is with the voice (or in hermets example, sign), words from the heart that move (Psallo) the heart.
That may be your perception, you can call it weaker in the faith (those that do what the bible says) if you mean the few that do it the way Jesus said... but too, Jesus said there would be few (Matt 7:14)
I try to play, I love the guitar, but if I could play as good as Eddie Van Halen, I would not play it in congregational worship of my Lord, there is no authorization for it, but even Eddie can't touch my Johnny Cash "The Gospel Collection", but I would never play even their music in worship, or attend a place of worship that would play theirs or yours... it is not authorized.
T
So sad you are bound by the law and cannot see that God himself gave you this talent to be exalted for his glory....and in fact it is rather an act supreme self righteous selfishness of you to not give your talent in worship.
One day you will break free form these chains of misunderstanding of scripture and you will play and sign like never before.
One day you will break free form these chains of misunderstanding of scripture and you will play and sign like never before.
K
What gets me is the same people that are constantly complaining about how the Catholic church adds things to the bible as things Christians are or are not to do, then turn around and do the same things. Adding extra do not's to our lives that is not in the bible.
I can remember the Pharisees did the same thing, and the Lord called them hypocrites for doing this.
S
My friend's parents are both deaf, and so she grew up in a deaf congregation. I have visited several times, and was so blessed by the services. Even though I was not fluent,(she had to translate a good bit of it to me) the expressive nature of the language gets the point across, and the passion for Christ was very evident and encouraging.
How easy those that place more emphasis on what makes them happy, complicating the gospel to make it say more than it does (or try to say it doesn't say that) and take the simplicity out of His message:
2 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV) But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Paul warned about those that would rather satisfy the flesh, he called it "will worship" :
Col 2:23 (KJV)
23Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
2 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV) But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Paul warned about those that would rather satisfy the flesh, he called it "will worship" :
Col 2:23 (KJV)
23Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
K
Paul also said that in all things that you do, do it for the glory of God;
1 Corinthians 10:31
Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
Colossians 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
Colossians 3:23
And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;