Nationalism and the Christian

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Feb 26, 2022
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#21
Did Jesus Love God? Are we not the members of His Body.? This should suffice for your response. All who suffer with Jesus Yeshua are privileged so.
Arguing this is futile any further if you cannot understand this.
So I was wrong giving you the benefit of the doubt , you simply changed my post to make it say what you wanted . That is dishonest

Original below:

We are forbidden to say we love God we have never seen if we fail our brother we have seen. I reckon the same applies to country
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#22
LOL Chopping a quote in half to make it say the opposite isnt and edit ??? You're off your nut.
Editing a post means changing what is INSIDE the quote box. Jaume did
NOT touch what you said. The problem was your lack of punctuation.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#23
So I was wrong giving you the benefit of the doubt , you simply changed my post to make it say what you wanted . That is dishonest

Original below:

We are forbidden to say we love God we have never seen if we fail our brother we have seen. I reckon the same applies to country
Hear this, I am legally blind, I responded to an alert given me which is the one to which I first responded of yous. So, do not judge by appearances, but with right judgement. God bless you, and if you are reposting on anything, remember the alerts come to us and I along with many who are not beleaguered by bad sight have a tendency to respond to that alert. God bless you more and be well. Remember, our Kingdom is NOT of this earth.
 
Feb 26, 2022
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#24
Hear this, I am legally blind, I responded to an alert given me which is the one to which I first responded of yous. So, do not judge by appearances, but with right judgement. God bless you, and if you are reposting on anything, remember the alerts come to us and I along with many who are not beleaguered by bad sight have a tendency to respond to that alert. God bless you more and be well. Remember, our Kingdom is NOT of this earth.
Fair enough , I dont have a problem with special circumstances.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#25
I took an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States against enemies, both foreign and domestic, so help me God. I’ve always had peace in my heart regarding that oath. If God did not support nationalism, the Holy Spirit would have convicted me and other Christians who have taken that oath. Just my opinion.
The Holy Spirit is God, and it is possible for you to mistake your fleshly thoughts as from the Holy Spirit, but it is not possible for the Holy Spirit to mistake the word of God. That word clearly states to love and do good for our enemies.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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#26
I see no reason that a Christian can’t also be a patriot. As long as that nation holds to truths of God, Is there any nation that holds to these truths? I’m hard pressed to say yes.
Good question! is there any nation that holds to and promotes and lives Jesus' words in Matthew 5,6,7?
 
Feb 26, 2022
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#27
The Holy Spirit is God, and it is possible for you to mistake your fleshly thoughts as from the Holy Spirit, but it is not possible for the Holy Spirit to mistake the word of God. That word clearly states to love and do good for our enemies.
And the same Holy Spirit tells us:

Break their teeth in their mouth, O God! Break out the fangs of the young lions, O LORD! Let them flow away as waters which run continually; when he bends his bow, let his arrows be as if cut in pieces. Let them be like a snail which melts away as it goes, like a stillborn child of a woman, that they may not see the sun. Before your pots can feel the burning thorns, He shall take them away as with a whirlwind, as in His living and burning wrath. The righteous shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance; He shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
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#28
it is possible for you to mistake your fleshly thoughts as from the Holy Spirit
It’s definitely possible but it’s not the case with me. I pray for our enemies. That said, I appreciate you sharing your insight.
 
Jan 5, 2022
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"A higher plane," hehe
www.youtube.com
#29
The Holy Spirit is God, and it is possible for you to mistake your fleshly thoughts as from the Holy Spirit, but it is not possible for the Holy Spirit to mistake the word of God. That word clearly states to love and do good for our enemies.
Yes, but there is a difference between a personal principle and a political policy.

The Bible ALSO clearly says that government exists in order to be a "sword and a terror" to evildoers. I take that to mean that the heart of government is a military (defense against foreign enemies), police (defense against criminals), and the legal framework to support those things.

The Roman soldiers served as both police and military. Notice that when the soldiers asked John the Baptist (I think it was) how they should live he did NOT tell them to lay down their arms and abandon their posts. He basically told them not to be involved in corruption/extortion and not to employ violence unnecessarily.

There is a time for violence, war, and killing.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#30
Yes, but there is a difference between a personal principle and a political policy.

The Bible ALSO clearly says that government exists in order to be a "sword and a terror" to evildoers. I take that to mean that the heart of government is a military (defense against foreign enemies), police (defense against criminals), and the legal framework to support those things.

The Roman soldiers served as both police and military. Notice that when the soldiers asked John the Baptist (I think it was) how they should live he did NOT tell them to lay down their arms and abandon their posts. He basically told them not to be involved in corruption/extortion and not to employ violence unnecessarily.

There is a time for violence, war, and killing.
You give me much to think about and study scripture. Certainly God gives government the authority to protect us from murders, this is fighting our enemies. Thanks.
 

Duckybill

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2021
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#31
Christians do not follow our corrupt, lying politicians!
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
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#32
does the bible support nationalism? kingdom of israel sure, but now?

are there any verses pointing to negative or positive? i cant find any in the new testament. positive or negative, maybe you friends can help me out?

this idea came to me with the ukraine situation now and me being a neighbor of russia and we are also on the verge of joining NATO (we already are a member just not officialy we do joint military exercises and go to their meetings etc) and i was thinking should i defend my country against an invader or not, biblically?
Nationalism is usually fairly abusive.
However....
You live in a community. You know the farmers and bakeries and grocery store. Even the doctors and school teachers and factory workers.

It isn't "every family for itself"... never has been. Your community does exist inside of a nation though and has leaders.

So... you are a part of a community of people. For it's well being or destruction. The choice is yours.
You aren't expected to destroy yourself because you are a valuable member and resource for the community. But if the community is destroyed there's no belonging anymore either.

We aren't part of Israel. We are of course part of God's kingdom. God's kingdom is untouchable and eternal.

There's the line.

Don't die for a politician. They are worthless anyway. Your neighbors? Another thing altogether.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#33
Christians do not follow our corrupt, lying politicians!
Are you sure about that?

I'd suggest that a lot of the problems in modern "Western" nations are due, in part, to the fact that many Christians do follow corrupt, lying politicians instead of following biblically sound ethics and worldview.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
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#34
We should make a distinction between "loving your country" and "nationalism". IMO, this country is the best place to live in the world. However, I am far removed from those who think we should export our way of life and values. I believe national politicians are generally compromised and I show them no support. I support local government and leaders if I know them. I won't vouch for someone based on a message alone. I have to know the person and their character. If I don't know someone in this way they will not get my vote. I believe that is consistent with letting our yeses be "yes" and our noes be "no".
 
Feb 26, 2022
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#35
We should make a distinction between "loving your country" and "nationalism". IMO, this country is the best place to live in the world. However, I am far removed from those who think we should export our way of life and values. I believe national politicians are generally compromised and I show them no support. I support local government and leaders if I know them. I won't vouch for someone based on a message alone. I have to know the person and their character. If I don't know someone in this way they will not get my vote. I believe that is consistent with letting our yeses be "yes" and our noes be "no".
I reckon its like so many important things, the right amount in the right place works like nothing else just as too much in the wrong place is like a fire burning in a school.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
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#36
I reckon its like so many important things, the right amount in the right place works like nothing else just as too much in the wrong place is like a fire burning in a school.
Perhaps, but just to be clear I am not suggesting moderation is the key. We, as people of God, are to worship in Spirit and in truth. IMO we should have very little tolerance for people in high places who are largely unapproachable. Such a system is contrary to the order of the Kingdom wherein the King allows the little children to approach Him.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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#37
does the bible support nationalism? kingdom of israel sure, but now?

are there any verses pointing to negative or positive? i cant find any in the new testament. positive or negative, maybe you friends can help me out?

this idea came to me with the ukraine situation now and me being a neighbor of russia and we are also on the verge of joining NATO (we already are a member just not officialy we do joint military exercises and go to their meetings etc) and i was thinking should i defend my country against an invader or not, biblically?
YES HE does :)

Ps 33:12 "Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance".

PS 9:17 17 "The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. "
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#38
I see no reason that a Christian can’t also be a patriot. As long as that nation holds to truths of God, Is there any nation that holds to these truths? I’m hard pressed to say yes.
ROMANS 13:1-3
“Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval.”

This scripture says that God gives the nations authority that we are to obey. Our first loyalty is to the kingdom of heaven, not the kingdoms of the earth. What the nations do that is not of God we are not obliged to follow.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,998
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#39
We are forbidden to say we love God we have never seen if we fail our brother we have seen. I reckon the same applies to country.
believers of Christ and the gospel seem to be Gods chosen nation that will inhabit the new creation

Jesus is the king and we are his people so nationalism and love of the kingdom of God seems to be our way
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
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#40
YES HE does :)

Ps 33:12 "Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance".

PS 9:17 17 "The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. "
Good one.